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Post by newey on Aug 26, 2009 23:14:44 GMT -5
Gerry-
Earlier, you thought wolf's design was too complex. Now you appear to want it all!
You also said you'd like to keep the regular 5-way and avoid buying a superswitch.
You said:
The "S-none" design gives you series options in positions 2 and 4, using a regular 5-way (Scroll down the page in ChrisK's post linked to earlier for the 2nd iteration of the design, using the regular 5 way switch.
This design has much to recommend it to you. That's why it has been repeatedly recommended here.
It's a relatively simple design, and only requires that you buy a single switch (or a push/pull pot). It's elegant, it has no redundant positions at 1,3 and 5 when in series mode, due to the use of the "special cap".
If this is a first-time experience for you, why draw up your own diagram when that part of the work has already been done?
Adding another switch to do the bridge internal series/parallel is a simple mod to that design. As for the "7 sound" switch, that, too, could be added- depending on how complex you're willing to let this get.
The MR design is also nice but requires the superswitch.
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 27, 2009 8:55:17 GMT -5
Can we assume, though, that you don't actually want to reverse the action of the 5-way (selecting the bridge pickup when the switch is toward the neck)? Not sure what you mean here? |
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 27, 2009 8:59:13 GMT -5
Mode is series
Seven sound is OFF
Neck
Position 5. _bridge____
Position 4. __bridge_+_middle_series_
Position 3. _middle____
Position 2. _middle_+_neck_series__
Position 1. _neck____
Bridge
Mode is series
Seven sound is ON
Neck
Position 5. _bridge____
Position 4. _bridge_+_middle_series__
Position 3. _middle_+ _bridge__parallel_
Position 2. _middle_+_neck _series +_bridge_parallel_
Position 1. _neck_+_bridge_prallel_
Bridge
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 27, 2009 9:09:32 GMT -5
Gerry- Earlier, you thought wolf's design was too complex. Now you appear to want it all! You also said you'd like to keep the regular 5-way and avoid buying a superswitch. You said: The "S-none" design gives you series options in positions 2 and 4, using a regular 5-way (Scroll down the page in ChrisK's post linked to earlier for the 2nd iteration of the design, using the regular 5 way switch. This design has much to recommend it to you. That's why it has been repeatedly recommended here. It's a relatively simple design, and only requires that you buy a single switch (or a push/pull pot). It's elegant, it has no redundant positions at 1,3 and 5 when in series mode, due to the use of the "special cap". If this is a first-time experience for you, why draw up your own diagram when that part of the work has already been done? Adding another switch to do the bridge internal series/parallel is a simple mod to that design. As for the "7 sound" switch, that, too, could be added- depending on how complex you're willing to let this get. The MR design is also nice but requires the superswitch. Well what I shoulda said rather than "my own diagram" was I was going to base it on the s-none and try implement the "seven strat" coupled with "series/parallel for bridge humbucker switch". I'm willing to let this get complicated inside, but only if A) I have the space in my guitar B)I don't need anymore than 3 toggle switchs and my five way Oh yeah will the s-none be comprimised in anyway by the fact that I have a humbucker in the bridge rather than a single coil? |
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 27, 2009 9:16:21 GMT -5
Gerry- Earlier, you thought wolf's design was too complex. Now you appear to want it all! You also said you'd like to keep the regular 5-way and avoid buying a superswitch. Yes I am greedy for tones, but of course I have to accept limitations. If I can't do what I want to do then I'll just forget it. I would consider a super switch, I meant to say this ages ago, but I'd still like to see if the three toggle switches is possible. Just remember I'm an amateur with basic knowledge |
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Post by newey on Aug 27, 2009 9:24:06 GMT -5
No. You will treat it just like a single coil in the diagram. The switch for the series/parallel on the HB gets interposed between the HB and the 5-way switch, as a sepparate module.
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 10, 2009 10:07:30 GMT -5
 ok this is my diagram I made up of the s-none and the seven sound strat. As far as I can see it makes sense. I haven't integrated the parallel option yet. I may actually be having second thoughts. I would just like an opinion on this first of all. In this diagram there is a push pull pot. I'm going to use a mini toggle dpdt instead so I imagibne its exactle the sameon the switch on the pot is else where in the diagram. Thanks |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 14, 2009 7:15:14 GMT -5
Right I'll take it that the diagram is ok then, when nextI change the strings on my strat I will get to work on this mod. In mean time if someone take a look at this diagram see if it makes sense I'd be greatful.
Thanks
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Post by newey on Sept 14, 2009 22:01:12 GMT -5
Gerry- Sorry no one has vetted your diagram yet. It looks OK to me, but don't rely on my (lack of) expertise, let others weigh in before you wire it up. It would be helpful if you included with your diagram a table showing the expected results of the various switch combos, otherwise one must go back through the post to see what you were aiming for.  |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 15, 2009 1:51:51 GMT -5
rg,
If you're intending that the cap mounted on the DPDT switch be in parallel with the Bridge and/or Neck when the switch is Up (in series mode), then your diagram is good to go.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 15, 2009 8:40:43 GMT -5
rg, If you're intending that the cap mounted on the DPDT switch be in parallel with the Bridge and/or Neck when the switch is Up (in series mode), then your diagram is good to go. HTH sumgai Cap in parallel? Is it in parallel on the diagram? I was just gonna do it like it showed on the diagram (which was from the original s-none diagram). The difference is my DPDT aint gonna be on my tone pot, its a seperate switch. I'll do another diagram up and do a table saying the expected results mmmmmkk? Okey doke I try have it done for tomorrow, internet access is limited for me right now. Oh yeah what value of cap shall I use? and does the type matter here? I think I've an Orange drop at 0.001 hanging around somewhere from when I was gonna do a trebel bleed network and decided against. |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 18, 2009 8:30:10 GMT -5
 ok this is the diagram re-designed showing seperate mini toggle I need help filling in the table becuase I don't fully understand the positions obtained by the s-none, the original thread is confusing as hell, keeps talking about super switches and stuff I don't understand nor does it list the postions it obtains. What is says is this (I don't understand this) 1. Middle * Bridge 2. Middle * (Bridge + "Special Cap") 3. Middle * "Special Cap" [different] 4. Middle * (Neck + "Special Cap") 5. Middle * Neck my table  ok * donates the bridge switch is on the 4th column is the pickups that are in use |
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Post by newey on Sept 18, 2009 10:16:30 GMT -5
gerry-
The chart uses a convention we've used around here for some time. To denote two things in series, a "times" sign (either "X" or "*") is used, while a parallel connection is denoted with a "+".
Knowing this, try working through the chart to see if it makes more sense in relation to yours.
The chart lists only the positions obtained with the series setting; the parallel settings are understood to be the same as the std Strat switching.
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Post by gitpiddler on Sept 18, 2009 10:37:48 GMT -5
Gerry- thought I'd add my usual pet peeve about grounding, the connection from the vol. pot casing to the terminal. That terminal is for signal return. My simple 1-pup, 1-pot setup was TOTALLY quieted by simply cutting that tab and running the signal return to the jack, SEPARATELY from the shield/chassis grnd. The shield is a bubble and the signal path should only touch it at the jack connection. Good luck with your design. Cheers, Marc
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Post by sumgai on Sept 18, 2009 13:23:08 GMT -5
rg, In another thread (similar to yours, started by outris), I described the process of constructing a "truth table" so that one can see what pickups will be selected for each switch position. I said, loosely quoted, that I follow the path of a pickup's wires from the signal return point ( nee ground) to the point where it's going out to the jack. I do this for each pickup, and if the path is complete (the switch is selecting that pickup), then it goes into the truth table as part of the selected combo (you know, where we write down "B" for bridge, or "B+M" for Bridge in parallel with Middle, that sort of thing). If the path is not complete, if I can't make a continuous line from one to the other end, then obviously the pickup isn't selected, and it won't be heard. Another way to visualize this method is to take a printout of your diagram, and draw over the top of it with arrows to show you where the signal is flowing. Obviously this can require several copies, so you might instead do this right inside your drawing program, using successive copies with slighly different names to tell you which path you followed. I've done that with your diagram, and I've included one of the drawings I made as an example, here:  See how the arrows direct your eyes to figure out the path? If you drew more arrows on other wires, they might connect, or they might not - that would be up to you to figure out, eh? I only included the example of the Middle pickup when the DPDT switch is in Parallel mode, but I've done all the rest. Suffice it to say, you can easily fill in the blanks on your table (what I call the "truth table") by using my method. It may take awhile at first, but it goes quicker with experience, and the beauty of it is, when you're done, it's all down in black and white (or other colors of your choice, I used red), and you can easily see if you missed anything - you don't have to remember if you did something or not! ;D Just remember, for each switch position, follow each pickup lead from its most negative point (where it connects to signal return) to its most postive point (where it goes out to the jack). If the path is not complete, erase any arrows, and move to the next pickup. HTH sumgai |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 22, 2009 10:37:18 GMT -5
Look I could probably figure this out but the s-none post is the most convoluted post I have ever read, randomly jumping from comparison to comparison. I mean the whole thing begins with.....
EDITED 20080922 to add two traditional 3/5-way lever wiring diagrams (the first is standard wiring and the second shows the S-None series/parallel scheme).
EDITED 20080430 to add wiring guide to "E" switch version.
EDITED 20080425 for drawing errors. Phase switch to MegaSwitch wiring incorrect.
EDITED 20061215 for drawing. A switch logic error was found in the Mega Switch E design. The Mega Switch S design was added.
If thats no enough to blow peoples minds then I dunno what is.
I was looking for a series parallel wiring mod and got this, offering a multitude if different diagrams which are talking about stuff without explaining it.
I didn't really expect to have to sit and work all this stuff out, I don't understand or have ever been taught theory to any of this, all I have done in the past is followed diagrams, and got results. Now I did what was kinda suggested to me earlier on in this thread which was join the "seven sound strat" diagram with the "3 Single Coils and The "S-None Switch"
all I want to know is will my diagram work? or will they conflict.
I honestly can't do the arrow thing and work out what pickups are on and off I've little concept of how wiring works at all, as I said before, I've followed diagrams and obtained results, never any thought to what is going on when current is passed throw the circuit.
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 22, 2009 10:49:35 GMT -5
Ok change of heart I'll try the arrow thing, I'm just getting a bit frustrated here  |
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Post by KIIMH on Sept 22, 2009 13:10:46 GMT -5
Your diagram certainly causes conflict.
I don't know you and I regret having to say this, but you need to be given the opportunity to learn from your actions ... either that or you need a swift kick in the nuts.
Specifically, you wrote in « Reply #33 on Aug 27, 2009, 9:09am »
Yes, you shoulda.
... but you didn't, did you? Instead, you wrote in « Reply #36 on Sept 10, 2009, 10:07am »
... and then you wrote in « Reply #41 on Sept 18, 2009, 8:30am »
I am willing to assume it was an honest brain fart on your part to infringe on ChrisK's copyrighted diagram without making it clear that this is your own modification of ChrisK's copyrighted work, and NOT the work of ChrisK (regardless of whether you know your stuff, but obviously more problematic if you do not know your stuff).
Some folks take that sort of thing seriously.
ChrisK is presently taking a break from the forum and will - WE ASK AND HOPE - be returning to us ... if he decides to grace you with his wisdom (as confounding as that may be to you), so be it.
If he does not ... well ... hopefully, as you say, you "could probably figure this out".
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Post by sumgai on Sept 22, 2009 14:50:29 GMT -5
HOLY SMOKES!!  rg, you're the first person ever to make Kyle is in my head actually speak not only lucidly but intelligently too! Right there you get a +1. But I've still got some things to say, so read on.... One, it's a given fact that no one here was born knowing all this crap - we each of us had to learn it, or some part of it, before we could really get down the road very far. You are simply futher behind in relation to us only because you came to the party later than we did. You can, and will (if you stick with us) learn this stuff, or again, at least the necessary parts that will get you to where you're comfortable. Trust me on this. The bottom line here is, everybody gets one "Oh poor me, I'm too dumb" whine, and you've just had yours, OK? Stick with it (and us), the rewards will be well worth it. and Two, what the NutzHouse is all about is helping you get to your destination, even if we have to take the occasional side-trip to get there. You've stuck with it for, what, 47 responses so far, and that's pretty good for someone who professes to know nuttin'. Believe me, we've seen, and dealt with, much worse here. But more to the point, we don't just hand out fish like we're the local Food Bank, we make you go out in the boat and catch the fish for yourself. That's the only way to learn, when all is said and done - you gotta do it yourownself, or the lesson won't stick. And before you get seasick, go back and read what I said first, about no one being born.... etc. Think you can figure out how many people helping you here today first came to the Nutzhouse in the same condition as you?  So, to give you one more boost, I'll say that yes, your diagram works out as I would want it to. You must decide for yourself if it works the way you want it to. HTH sumgai |
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Post by D2o on Sept 23, 2009 22:08:45 GMT -5
It has been suggested to me (via PM) that using "kyle is in my head" to deliver my thoughts to rabidgerry was a cop out (this was suggested "without prejudice", by the way - just an observation from a friend who was comfortable enough to say so, and I dearly appreciate both the friendship and the insight).
For the record, I had been using kyle (in "invisible user" mode) to come in and adjust karma upwards to varying degrees on some underappreciated members, and merely continued on with that recent habit.
In hindsight, I ("D2o") should have delivered my thoughts under my own "real" username.
I apologize for the lack of foresight and perceived cowardess, and especially for making any of you believe that "kyle is in my head" has any command of the English language.
Sincerely,
D2o
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Post by newey on Sept 23, 2009 23:08:02 GMT -5
As opposed to those members who are duly appreciated, but become "karmaphobic" and delete their counts? ;D ;D ;D kyle- the Secret Santa? Who knew? |
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Post by gitpiddler on Sept 23, 2009 23:28:54 GMT -5
I saw at least one other post where Kyle was out of character that day I think the Chinese disregard for copyrights and patents is wearing off on everyone. ChrisK, thanks for your massive contribs. Please come back  |
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Post by gumbo on Sept 24, 2009 8:51:21 GMT -5
rg...
..from my observation over a reasonable period of time, one would potentially gain a WHOLE lot more from this forum by taking a BDB (big deep breath) before hitting the Post Reply button..
The forum does not exist just to dig you out of the s*#t, or provide a medium for your rants about things beyond your immediate level of expertise.....the people helping you do so out of their own good graces, without obligation or reward....perhaps there was (and is) an expectation on their behalf that you WOULD have to "sit and work all this stuff out"....not THAT an outlandish state-of-affairs, methinks.
In the meantime you could do a lot worse than to include the occasional "please" and "thank you", rather than bag people and things about which you have yet to learn or fully appreciate.
....be thankful you are still getting replies, even though that includes mine.
Please come back, ChrisK...... let only worthy opponents remove your umbridge!
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 28, 2009 11:27:33 GMT -5
I kinda took a big deep breath after I'd initially cracked up so sorry for all you who think I was flying off the handle. I'm just more a player than a guitar tech (hence the frustration), but at the same time I'd like to think I'm capable of personalizing my gear since I have tampered (and broke) with stuff since I first go into playing music and enjoy having A LOT OF TONES ;D. I've always modified stuff, its just now I'm getting greedy so I really want this mod to work. Sorry again  This is my table, I dunno what you'll all make of it  |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 28, 2009 11:43:00 GMT -5
HOLY SMOKES!! So, to give you one more boost, I'll say that yes, your diagram works out as I would want it to. You must decide for yourself if it works the way you want it to. sumgai Hey man if you think it works out the way you would like it then I'll restate what I would like from it. "To be able to have series wiring for the inbetween positions 2 and 4" "To be able to switch the bridge pup on whenever I like" ....................ok now thats in its simplest form, obviously I want to avoid dead spots which I think using the s-none mod in conjunction with the bridge on mod would achieve. P.S What type of cap in the s-none? I read 0.003, how does the cap affect things? |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 28, 2009 13:18:57 GMT -5
gerry, That 0.003µf cap is what Fender uses in their "special" arrangement that's called the S1 switch, as seen on some Strats, Teles, and Jazz Basses. Of course, that's only a starting point, you can experiment by changing values. Going lower will probably have a noticible effect, but not by much. I'd stick with going higher in value..... you could end up going as high as 0.01µf before you're satisfied. Any too much more than that, and you're in the range of a Tone control's capacitor, which can get pretty dark sounding. Your description of what you want is the same as your first post, which was my guiding light when I said "what I want". In that case, fire up the soldering iron and get to it! But...... Before you start inhaling solder fumes, take another look at your table. BTW, nice job. I'll bet it wasn't fun at first, but you've arrived at the same conclusions as I did, so you can pat yourself on the back.  Your triple question marks show what happens when you engage the Bridge On, which puts that pickup in parallel to whatever combo is selected, and the Series switch is also On. The results of having the Bridge in series and in parallel at the same time will short out whichever of the other two pickups you've selected, sorry to say. This leaves you with several selector switch positions that have nothing but the Bridge in parallel with the capacitor, which is easily cured by simply leaving the Bridge On switch disengaged when you're operating in Series mode.... HTH sumgai |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 29, 2009 8:15:28 GMT -5
gerry, Your description of what you want is the same as your first post, which was my guiding light when I said "what I want". In that case, fire up the soldering iron and get to it! But...... Before you start inhaling solder fumes, take another look at your table. BTW, nice job. I'll bet it wasn't fun at first, but you've arrived at the same conclusions as I did, so you can pat yourself on the back. Your triple question marks show what happens when you engage the Bridge On, which puts that pickup in parallel to whatever combo is selected, and the Series switch is also On. The results of having the Bridge in series and in parallel at the same time will short out whichever of the other two pickups you've selected, sorry to say. This leaves you with several selector switch positions that have nothing but the Bridge in parallel with the capacitor, which is easily cured by simply leaving the Bridge On switch disengaged when you're operating in Series mode.... HTH sumgai Jesus I could almost cry!!!  with joy!! ;D I will off course get stuck in, but I have a gig tomorrow and some rehearsals at weekend so it will not be till Sunday before I can disembowel my strat. The results of having the Bridge in series and in parallel at the same time will short out whichever of the other two pickups you've selected, sorry to say. This leaves you with several selector switch positions that have nothing but the Bridge in parallel with the capacitor, which is easily cured by simply leaving the Bridge On switch disengaged when you're operating in Series mode.... (bare in mind also that my bridge pup is a humbucker of 14k) Yes I thought possible death by explosion here which is why I said I didn't know. I didn't think it possible to have the pup on twice. If it does work it might be super noisey or something dreadful but we shall see. And even if they don't work, jeez I'm only losing two positions and like you said sumgai I could just leave that "bridge on" off if the outcome was crap. Once I start doing this mod I wanna make sure I make a real neat job of where I locate the switches, I found a nice spot for a series/parallel switch on another strat of mine so I wanna make sure I get it right with this mod. P.S I'd like to thank all of those who contributed and put up with my stumbling thread, thanks to the original creator of the S-none diagram from which I borrowed Chrisk watch this space, will update a.s.a.p with results, it may be f__king good in all positions who knows! |
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Post by rabidgerry on Sept 29, 2009 9:29:06 GMT -5
Sh_t!! Oh well can't have everything
I get a load more new sounds though one way or the other.
We'll see once its done!!
Double DRAT!
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Post by sumgai on Sept 29, 2009 10:11:30 GMT -5
Gerry, As it now stands, you have two switches (besides the pickup selector) to modify your tones. That's 2 x 2, or 4 possible tone modifiers, right? But one of them doesn't work for diddly, the Series On/Bridge On - both engaged. Well, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see that if only 3 of the 4 positions are workable, then a 4P3T toggle switch can be used as a single control point where you select the standard Strat combos (paralllel), or Bridge On mods (which are in parallel only, of course), or Series On (which locks out any possibility of Series On and Bridge On at the same time). Give that a shot in your design thinking, you might like the simplicity of operation. It's actually not any more difficult to wire it up than what you have now, you're just gonna combine two physical switches into one. And if you're into rotary switches, this is even easier to apply than a toggle. A Fender S1 scheme can also benefit from this, and as an added bonus, it already has one of those "special" capacitors soldered right in there for you! (Too bad they're not easy to come by, in the raw. eBay sometimes has them for about $25 or so, but that's a tad much for just a switch.  ) HTH sumgai |
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Post by rabidgerry on Oct 5, 2009 5:58:13 GMT -5
Ok gimme a day or 2 to work on a new diagram. I had another unexpected gig to play at weekend there so its delayed me taking my guitar apart and what not. I'm also possibly re-potting my middle and bridge pickups! I've now surplus switches, if I'm gonna use a 4pdt switch instead. I've only seen quite large versions of these are there any smallish versions out there? This store (doesn't allow me to link to the switch page directly) is my local stockest. www.maplins-electronics.co.uk/ |
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