4P3T split-tap mod question

[cpellicore]

Hi folks!

This is my first post here and naturally its a humdinger. I understand basic dpst and dpdt. I don't know the translation for a 4p3t and that has a lot to do with my conundrum. Here's what I'm trying to do: Guitar-is a Squier '51. P/U's- neck: SD Twang Banger(tapped in SD Custom Shop); bridge: SD Stag Mag. In the neck position the Twang Banger( further referred to as 'TB') is quite hot and over riding the Stag Mag badly when it is split. I'd like to wire a 4p3t switch such that:
Position 1- neck is tapped/bridge is split.
Position 2- neck is full/bridge is HB
Position 3- neck is tapped(reverse phase)/bridge is split

This would go to my tele 4-way mod switch. I think this is doable but I'm going to need help in the figuring this out department. My brain is having trouble dealing with too much crap right now as I'm also in school finishing my CFA(Certified First {surgical}Assistant), working, raising kids, learning guitar, and trying to keep up with my drumming gigs that pay money. Whew! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, folks!

[newey]

cpell-

Hello and Welcome!

You indicate of the 4P3T switch:

This would go to my tele 4-way mod switch.

What is the tele 4-way switch selecting? How is it modified? Is this the "Baja Tele" scheme?

I understand basic dpst and dpdt. I don't know the translation for a 4p3t

Well, envision 2 DP3T switches sitting side-by-side and sharing a common lever/toggle. Just work out the wiring as if it were 2 switches, then you just merge the 2 onto the 4P switch, jumpering as needed.

If you can work out the 4-way Tele switch, you can work out the 4P3T.

But there may be easier ways to accomplish what you want, if you'll describe the requirements specifically. I'm envisioning that you want the Tap-spl/full/tap-spl OOP switch to be operable only when the 4 way Tele switch is selecting both pickups (in series or parallel? )

[cpellicore]

You asked the goal of the intended mod and thought I had answered, but on further reflection I realize you meant you wanted more elaboration. My use of the 4p3t was simply to control the state of the individual p/u's, while controlling which p/u's were actively being output with the 4-way tele lever switch.
This switch is the Fender mod switch with positions being:
1. bridge
2. bridge and neck(para)
3. neck
4. bridge and neck(series)

This guitar originally had a p/p Vol pot that allowed for splitting the bridge HB and a three way rotary that controlled p/u selection. What I'm doing is basically expanding on its current theme. The 4-way lever has been made provision for in the new pickguard, with a basically strat location. The '51 control plate has limited space but adequate room to place the 4p3t switch between the knobs. The three way rotary will be replaced with an EMG VMC. The vol p/p acts as an active kill restoring the 'original' 'no tone pot' sound. This will work together to create a very flexible guitar, yet one that doesn't bristle with switches screaming 'mad modder' and is still in keeping with the original spirit of the guitar. I hope this helps those trying to help me. Thanks.

[sumgai]

newey,

Oct 2, 2009 22:47:04 GMT -5 newey said:

I understand basic dpst and dpdt. I don't know the translation for a 4p3t

Well, envision 2 DP3T switches sitting side-by-side and sharing a common lever/toggle. Just work out the wiring as if it were 2 switches, then you just merge the 2 onto the 4P switch, jumpering as needed.

If you can work out the 4-way Tele switch, you can work out the 4P3T.

I took this to mean that cpell isn't familiar with how a switch can have three throws that all have some job to do - any 3-throw switch, no matter how many poles.

cpell, take a look here:

Design Templates

Specifically, the middle diagram in the top row..... see how the arrows are going two to one side, and two to the other side, when the switch is in the center position (Throw #2)? There ya go, courtesy of ChrisK (our resident EE, currently on sabbatical).

Oct 2, 2009 22:47:04 GMT -5 newey said:

But there may be easier ways to accomplish what you want, if you'll describe the requirements specifically. I'm envisioning that you want the Tap-spl/full/tap-spl OOP switch to be operable only when the 4 way Tele switch is selecting both pickups (in series or parallel? )

Again, I took a different interpretation. It doesn't matter which pickup(s) is/are selected, the tapping and/or splitting operation will still be valid. The only time an OoP condition can occur, audible to the ears, is of course when both pickups are selected.


cpell,


First, to the NutzHouse! ;D

Oct 2, 2009 21:55:08 GMT -5 cpellicore said:

Here's what I'm trying to do: Guitar-is a Squier '51. P/U's- neck: SD Twang Banger(tapped in SD Custom Shop); bridge: SD Stag Mag. In the neck position the Twang Banger( further referred to as 'TB') is quite hot and over riding the [bridge]Stag Mag badly when it is split. I'd like to wire a 4p3t switch such that....

You do realize that the bold parts have nothing to do with the underlined parts, right? The two ideas are totally unrelated, in that one expresses a problem, and the other expresses a desire for an expanded tonal pallette.

Taken separately, the first thing I'd do is check the height of each of the pups - are they too close or too far from the strings? You can adjust them quite a bit (up and down) to achieve a tonal balance that sounds "right" to you, without going any further, electronics-wise.

As for your expanded switching, beyond what I noted above, I'm leery of this:

Oct 3, 2009 1:02:14 GMT -5 cpellicore said:

....... The vol p/p acts as an active kill restoring the 'original' 'no tone pot' sound.

Errr, not in my book would an active kill switch imitate a "no tone pot" circuit. Perhaps you meant to say something on the order of "tone control bypass", hmmmm? There is a definite difference, and it's best to give you the benefit of the doubt now, instead of showering you with huzzah's later on, I'm sure you'll agree.

One more thing:

Oct 2, 2009 21:55:08 GMT -5 cpellicore said:

I'd like to wire a 4p3t switch such that:
Position 1- neck is tapped/bridge is split.
Position 2- neck is full/bridge is HB
Position 3- neck is tapped(reverse phase)/bridge is split

Are you aware of what will happen when you select one of the neck coils, reverse the wiring polarity, and then connect it with the bridge pickup's single coil?

In a nutshell, you will get a different tone alright, but you'll also get a butt-load of humming, if there's any in the vicinity just waiting to get into your signal. This condition is considered by 99% of all guitarists to be unacceptable.

Knowing, that, you might re-consider here - - you have only two usable choices, which makes this setup a perfect candidate for the push-pull switch on the volume knob. If you need a fully bypassed tone control, purchase a "no load pot" from almost anywhere on the web.... they're growing under the very rocks, it would seem, they are so plentiful. They can and will give you exactly what you're looking for, the "origina" "no tone control" sound.

BTW, I'd seriously consider swapping the pickup selections at positions 3 and 4 - the neck should always be at the very end of the switch handle's travel, not somewhere in between one end and the other.

HTH




sumgai