Feedback from Monitors at Gigs or Guitar?

[rabidgerry]

This may sound like a really stupid question but I gots to know so I can eliminate my guitar as the culprit.

When I played a gig a few days ago, all I got was feedback from the monitor that was in front of me on the stage. I couldn't get rid of this feedback and played the whole show with it. I even went as fAR as turing my amp down to like 2. From what I could tell the amp wasn't feedbacking at all. So since it was only in my monitor, whos fault is this?

I'm suspicious as to whether or not it is my guitar.

To put it in perspective, one of my pups WAS microphonic, I since solved this issue by potting it.

Hear is how I tested it. I play in a stereo set up now (not the best or most expensive gear). I had both amps up roughly half way. Believe me this is loud as god being angry. I played a few sets the same as I do at rehearsals every week. I got no squeals from the middle pup or neck pup. Even when I selected the middle pup after quieting the strings, the noise of the selctor switch did not trigger squeals the same as it had done before I potted it. I went as far as tapping and knocking the scratch plate. No squeals.

Can I therefore eliminate that the cause of the feedback was my guitar?

or could it still be my guitars fault?

or is there something tricky about the set up of guitars and monitors that I don't know about?

I can't imagine how me playing through half my normal rig and at half the normal volume coulda caused any feedback considering I got no squealy feedback with double the amps and 75% more volume!!

Please can someone provide me with a little clarity as to who the culprit may be.

I feel personally that it was the sound man at the gig and the crap monitors and PA set up at the venue. However I need to be sure cause I don't want to suffer the same embarassment ever again.

Sound men have an awful good knack at making bands feel like they're beneath them where I live, they never seem to be too keen to accommodate your set up if it differs drastically from the status quo.

In my case (Belfast N.I based band) I'm the only person in Metal playing a fender strat!! Who doesn't have anywhere near the same guitar tone as the last bunch of growly death metal bands we find ourselves constantly playing with.

[rabidgerry]

Ok more details.

Our singer was using a wireless mic, it was obviously going into the PA that my mic'd amp was going in2, as in my guitar was mic'd and then the signal went out through the PA as did the drums and everything else.

Someone said to me that the mic may have been causing feedback on the guitar? or not helping? Would this be a contributing factor? His reciever was right next to me (but not my amp)

The wireless mic has been nothing but trouble for our singer at live gigs, the sound guys can never get it adjusted easily, its gain controle and what not are always having to be tweaked.

Just wondering could this be fuel for the fire.

[ashcatlt]

Any microphonic feedback from your guitar would have been audible through your amp. Since you weren't hearing that, I 'd have to say that's not it. Was your guitar even coming through the monitors?

It's far more likely that one of the open mics on stage was feeding back. This should have been audible through the FOH, though, and begs the question as to why the soundguy didn't at least try to fix the problem. In fact, if it was constant and didn't sound like somebody was trying to fix it, and you didn't notice any negative response from the crowd, I'd have to guess that it wasn't coming through them mains.


If that's the case there's only a couple conclusions we can draw:

1) There was an "unused" mic on stage muted to the mains but accidentally left sending to the monitors.

B) It wasn't feedback at all, but rather some form of high frequency noise in the monitor signal alone.

Of course, this is impossible to properly diagnose without being there. Next time, you could try turning down your guitar's volume control to see if it affects the noise.

I'd like to mention here that your "angry god" volume could be a culprit in any microphone feedback. In fact, stage volume is the number one cause of feedback in a live gig. Try sometime having your vocalist sing into your ear while the band is raging away and tell me if you can make out the words. The vocal mic doesn't know that it's only supposed to pickup the voice. It just transduces whatever is audible where it is. Directionality can help this some, but...

There are definitely some real pks out there in the FOH world, but I think most will be reasonable if you are polite and professional. Show up for soundcheck on time, and be ready to go. Ask questions rather than making demands, and don't try to act like you know more than you do. And find a way to reduce your stage volume, which might require some negotiation (I suggest more stick than carrot) with your drummer.

[rabidgerry]

Nov 4, 2009 12:58:29 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

Any microphonic feedback from your guitar would have been audible through your amp. Since you weren't hearing that, I 'd have to say that's not it. Was your guitar even coming through the monitors?

It's far more likely that one of the open mics on stage was feeding back. This should have been audible through the FOH, though, and begs the question as to why the soundguy didn't at least try to fix the problem. In fact, if it was constant and didn't sound like somebody was trying to fix it, and you didn't notice any negative response from the crowd, I'd have to guess that it wasn't coming through them mains.


If that's the case there's only a couple conclusions we can draw:

1) There was an "unused" mic on stage muted to the mains but accidentally left sending to the monitors.

B) It wasn't feedback at all, but rather some form of high frequency noise in the monitor signal alone.

Of course, this is impossible to properly diagnose without being there. Next time, you could try turning down your guitar's volume control to see if it affects the noise.

I'd like to mention here that your "angry god" volume could be a culprit in any microphone feedback. In fact, stage volume is the number one cause of feedback in a live gig. Try sometime having your vocalist sing into your ear while the band is raging away and tell me if you can make out the words. The vocal mic doesn't know that it's only supposed to pickup the voice. It just transduces whatever is audible where it is. Directionality can help this some, but...

There are definitely some real pks out there in the FOH world, but I think most will be reasonable if you are polite and professional. Show up for soundcheck on time, and be ready to go. Ask questions rather than making demands, and don't try to act like you know more than you do. And find a way to reduce your stage volume, which might require some negotiation (I suggest more stick than carrot) with your drummer.

Thanks ashcatlt.

However, if you read what I said before, I said onstage I played that gig with:

A) One amp

B) 75% Less volume than at practice

Sorry not being an butt here its just the comparison I was trying to make suggested that:

how come I'm fine (no mega feedback) at practice with:

A) Two Amps

B) 75% More Volume

So my sorta conclusion is that something majorly bad was going down at the gig cause I was at a very low level on my amp (No.2) and I'm normally at about No.5 on two seperate (left and right) amps when I'm at rehearsals.

Oh a before I forget, when I turned my volume pedal down the feedback got lower or went completely away depending on where I had the pedal. However the feedback did not seem to be coming through the amp. The monitors were allegedley on but I heard dam all through them. A faint guitar sound may be.

The fact that it was constant makes sense what you say here

Nov 4, 2009 12:58:29 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

It's far more likely that one of the open mics on stage was feeding back

More memories also remind me that when I was playing with my amp louder for the first song or two (up to about No. 4 - 5) I could hear the guitar fine (fine is an overstatement) behind me, without any feedback. The monitor in front was where the high noise was coming from.

The mystery deepens.

Also I always try to get on with sound men, I never make demands, in fact I bloody well should cause I've played so many gigs with terrible stage sound. The fact is that most of those who I've worked with try to talk down to members of the band because we don't know anything about live gear (when in fact I do, I know not all musicians do though).

It makes sense to get along with sound men though as they are trying to give the audience a representation of your bands sound.

When a sound guy first insults you though about having a "1960's guitar" or "guitar sound" as soon as you've just set up your gear on stage he deserves to get a kicking. I mention that as this is what the sound guy on Saturday said to me about my strat. He only said this cause I didn't take an IBANEZ with EMG's out of my case.

[BigBob1962]

I am still not sure whether your amp was running through the PA or not, but as both a guitar player of 30+ years, and a soundman of 20+ years I have seen both sides of your situation and first off, I would fire that sound man, I have sat in for several bands, just to initially set their system for a weekend show, or to train a new soundman when I couldn't be there all weekend. If your amp was running through the system, it is totally possible to have your guitar feeding back through the monitors and not at your amp... the signs of a poor soundman... if it changed w/your volume petal, then it is almost impossible that it would be a mic at fault... It might be possible he was trying to turn you up (the wrong way) using the trim to get more oomph, and forgot that it also affects the monitors... once again, the sighn of a poor soundman... Just my $0.02 worth.

[thetragichero]

Nov 5, 2009 8:43:56 GMT -5 rabidgerry said:

B) 75% More Volume

not to pick nits but that should be 133% more, no?

[ashcatlt]

Well, things get a little confused here, but...

If we call Practice Volume 100%, and Stage Volume was 75% less than that, then it is 25% of Practice Volume.  Practice Volume must then be 300% more than Stage Volume.

Did anybody ever figure out where this feedback was coming from?  Does the OP still have functional eardrums?

[Completely Off Topic]. I mentioned the Homegrown Music Festival that I played in earlier this month.  The Lorenzo's Tractor show was great because we plugged in our rack and had the (relatively competent) soundguy turn us up and everything just worked.  

My other band, Circadian Nations, decided to play acoustic for various reasons.  I introduced myself to the soundguy and shook his hand and explained to him that we'd need two vocal mics, two instrument mics (my guitar and whatever Dave decides to play - guitar or mandolin - for each song), and one DI for the bass.  We don't need any "hype" and you can really kind of roll off the high end on everything since we're shooting for a darker, warmer, "vintage" sound.

So we start our "soundcheck", but the bar is packed.  We don't mess around, though.  If there's people there, we're gonna PLAY.  About halfway through the first song, the speaker - which is a foot and a half away from my left ear goes "BEEYORT!!!!" and I can't hear out of that ear the rest of the night.  The only way they happens is if dude was turning up that channel and not hearing it, so he turned it up some more and still couldn't hear it and then realized he hadn't assigned that channel to the mix bus and pushed the switch before turning it back down!  Bad form.  

Then we started getting the high-pitched feedback in frequency ranges the none of our instruments really need...  You may recall that I had mentioned that before we got on stage... 

Did I mention that there was a "house drum kit" on the postage stamp of a stage with a mic on every drum, even though the room is too small to ever require reinforcement of an acoustic drum kit?  Hell , CN has played that room with no amplification at all (not even for vox)!!!  

Dude seemed really cool, but he had dome fancy digital something going on and it all was running through his laptop and I'm pretty sure he had some of those drum mics (I finally just moved all the drums back out of the way as far as I could so we could fit on stage) open.

Ack!  Maybe you'd'a had to been there. 

I can't seem to get a gig running sound in this town. [/Rant]