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Post by bikininspector on Dec 18, 2009 17:04:37 GMT -5
hey guys and girls i am currently planning to rewire my SSS strat copy, so that i can obtain humbucking from my singlegoils, which are currently wired like this: , or at least kind of, the switch looks different. i've read a lot of schems on the web, looked over the stuff at hermetico and 1728, and also on guitarnuts (this is how i found this forum). The main problem i have with all the stuff i found was that most schems are drawn with different parts orientation, different colors or sometimes as schems or wiring diagrams. This makes it very hard for me to "patchwork" a wiring meeting my needs. So this is where you might come into play and help me . i want to keep the standard 5 position switch with all its normal functions. then, with the flick of a switch, i want to add the middle SC in series with the pickup(s) the 5-way toggles. I'm aware that eg B+M*M might cause problems (of to me unknown nature), but i hope that's negligible The same i want for the Bridge SC. Would it be even possible to combine that in a 3-position switch? (up=M in series with 5-way / middle=5-way selection only / down=B in series with 5-way). also, i would like the option of switching the respective series PUs out of phase. I guess (or rather, hope) i can wrap my head around a phase-inversion-switch once the rest of the wiring is done, though. so, the question is how can i wire a singlecoil in series with the selection of the 5-position switch?
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Post by newey on Dec 18, 2009 19:52:00 GMT -5
Bikininspector- Hello and Welcome! There are any number of schemes that will do much of what you want, and many that will do more than what you want. I'll hunt around and see what I can find in the archives, I'm sure we have something similar to what you want- and if it isn't close enough, we can probably modify to exactly what you want. I don't think that's a problem, but it may not sound appreciably different than M*B. One issue you should consider is how the tone controls will be wired. You will have "issues" with series combos if the standard Strat tone control setup is retained. One solution to this is to have a designated parallel tone and a designated series tone, as JohnH did in his "Strat Lover's Other Strat" (which is in the General Schematics section). PS- Do you inspect the radioactive atoll or the swimwear? ;D ;D Edit: The founder of this Board, Randomhero, has this Strat mod: www.1728.com/guitar3.htmThis uses 2 switches (which could be push/pull pots, you'd only use a single pole on one) to give all the normal 5 way positions, plus N*M and M*B. This might serve as a starting point for discussion, at least.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 18, 2009 22:21:08 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Dec 19, 2009 0:37:26 GMT -5
bi, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! Many of the things you've asked for can be done, but one thing that will go bump in the night is the use of (B+M)*M. In a nutshell, the Middle pup will sound out, but the Bridge will be DOA. The reason? The lead from the Middle pup that goes to the Bridge pup is also going to the same place as the other Bridge lead. Not a good idea, if you were planning on hearing the Bridge pup too. (credit goes to ashcatlt for catching me trying to pull that very same stunt, years ago.) The idea of a separate switch for series plus the main selector is not only smart, it's necessary - you simply can't get series and parallel both from a normal Strat-style 5-way switch, not even a superswitch. One or the other, but not both. I can see where using a 3-way switch can be made to send a pickup to either the 5-way (for parallel connectivity), or in series with the 5-way (which would not have that pickup for parallel connections, and therefore, you'd experience some dead spots). Better would be to let the 3-way simply "take over".... the 5-way is out of the circuit while the 3-way is up or down, and in those positions, B*N or B*M would be what you hear. In the middle, you'd have the standard selector with all of it's parallel sounds intact. But the fact is, for that effort and cost, you gain only two more tonal options. I think that the Mike Richardson mod, as implemented by ChrisK (see JohnH's suggestion just above), will give you not only what you asked for, but 3 addtional tones you didn't even think to ask for... and with only one double-throw switch (which is easier to operate when it's your turn to solo, and all eyes are upon you! ). Mike R. also showed a phase-reversal switch in his original write-up, so if you're wondering where to put that switch, the work's already been done for you. And tested, many times over. ;D HTH sumgai
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Post by pete12345 on Dec 19, 2009 6:47:37 GMT -5
I find 5-way switches quite fiddly to operate, but I would say the MR wiring is probably your best option. It's quite a logical layout: the positions for B+M, B+N, M+N are the same for B*M, B*N, M*N so it's easier to remember what setting is where. The two 'all three' settings are in the same places as the single coils. Without the phase switch, you'd get 10 distinct sounds.
The only slight drawback is that position 3 (originally middle pickup only) is changed to B+N in parallel mode and B*N in series mode. However, I consider middle only to be a bit boring. Bridge and neck combined gives a similar but better sound IMHO.
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Post by bikininspector on Dec 19, 2009 14:33:06 GMT -5
hello! first of all thanks for the welcome and thanks for your interest -newey I'm not sure what to do with the tone controls. First i was thinking about haven master tone ond master volume only, using the free hole for a switch. But when i installed a phase switch for "Middle" and readjusted all the PU's height last night, i really got to like individual tone controls in parallel wiring. What will be the "issues" you mentioned if i leave the tone controls the way they are right now, using series wiring? maybe its even pretty cool to be able to control the coils seperately in a pseudo-humbucker... BTW, all three pots are 500k and the cap has "473K" on it (is that 0.047nF, right?) I've seen randomheros mod before and i like the switch configuration. It seems very intuitive and easy to handle eg in stage situations. What i see as a drawback is that it can only produce N*M and M*B. I would like to have N*B too. Also, it uses 2 switches, which is OK, but the suggestion JohnH made looks like it can produce more options with just one extra switch ... -JohnH pretty cool, and it uses the standard 5-way, too! Is it possible to mod this wiring for: DPDT switch UP: 5= N*M 4= insert cool and awesome sound here, maybe N*M*B or N+M+B...? 3= N*B 2= N+B 1= B*M ? i'll repost the pic, so you dont have to travel.. there still is one question left. The switch in my strat looks pretty different from the switches ive seen on the net: POS1 connects C and F POS2 connects C and B and F and E POS3 connects B and E POS4 connects B and A and D and E POS5 connects A and D Z is always connected can i use this switch for the mike richardson mod? -sumgai and pete i lke that setup very much, too. seems very intuitive and has only 1 extra switch. are you sure? The chart in the schem says Pos. 3 is "Middle" in parallel mode... agreed, not havin M alone is not a sacrifice. Actually i won't even miss it when its gone, especially with the millions of new sounds i'll have I hardly ever use it anyway... so i think its time to put on my radioactive swimwear and go inspect carribean atolls
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Post by newey on Dec 19, 2009 15:17:28 GMT -5
Most folks look for them in the Pacific. If you find any in the Caribbean, let us know . . . ;D
Nope. Your switch has only one common lug ("Z") for both poles. You need to be able to wire each pole independently for these mods. So you need the type of lever switch with 8 lugs, with a common lug for each pole.
There are 2 basic types of these, the ones used in most Asian imported giuitars have all 8 lugs along the bottom of a square circuit board, with the commons in the middle. The old-style Fender ones (Oak Grigsby is a big mfr. of these) have 2 banks of 4 lugs arrayed along a curved disc.
I'm not entirely clear on which mod you decided to go with. The original MR mod requires a Superswitch, but again, you'll need to upgrade the switch in any event. ChrisK's "S-none" scheme uses a regular Strat switch plus a DPDT P/P pot- or at least the last version does. But even to do ChrisK's scheme you need an 8 lug switch.
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Post by bikininspector on Dec 19, 2009 15:40:28 GMT -5
well it depends. If there is a way to get
DPDT switch UP: 5= N*M 4= insert cool and awesome sound here, maybe N*M*B or N+M+B...? 3= N*B 2= N+B 1= B*M
from the s-none scheme with the flick of a switch, i would like to try this. Instead of a pushpull switch, i'd use a regular DPDT.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 19, 2009 15:49:24 GMT -5
bikininspector
With the switch that you have, you are limited since as noted above, it has only two poles and they are joined together. But the good news is that you can do the 'S-none'scheme (Ie the pic that you posted above). All we need to do is to translate the lugs on the diagram into the letters that you have thoughtfully labbeled on your switch picture. The reason that this can work is that this diagram, as with a normal Strat wiring, also has the two poles joined. On the diagram, the join the brown wire going across the switch from lower right to top left.
I suggest just keep the combos as is - its giving you all the standard Strat options with no compromise, the two best series sounds (N+M and B+M), and of the other three, I can confirm that position 4 in which is NxM with m bypassed by a cap is very cool indeed - it has the weight of a series sound but the bite of a single coil. I have this on a guitar that I have (differnt design). You can chose the value of the extra cap, but Id suggest a similar value to the tone cap, maybe 0.022uF, or if not, try less, say 0.01uF.
This scheme, designed by ChrisK is one of those annoying ones that I wish I had thought of myself! - he gets great range out of it with minimal new parts.
cheers
John
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Post by newey on Dec 19, 2009 15:54:22 GMT -5
John's right, the 5-way in ChrisK's scheme does have both poles tied together. It's a bit hard to see that brown wire and I missed it.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 19, 2009 20:56:04 GMT -5
bi, Let me back us up for a moment..... I'm the one who first said "Mike Richardson", who is the person that inspired ChrisK's design. Chris made his setup simpler, and by doing so, he allowed for the continuing use of the "standard" Strat 5-way switch (which by now you've discovered is not what you have), and also used only a DPDT toggle switch. Sadly, his design also eliminates Mike's 'B*N' combo that you're asking for. To get that, and to have all three pickups in either parallel or series, you'll need to use a superswitch (4P5T) and a 4PDT toggle switch. Neither of these parts are considered 'inexpensive' by most players, but True Nutz like us, well, let's just say that we'll make the sacrifice, all in the name of tone. Mike first envisioned a B+N for the middle position of his "normal" 5-way switch, that just happened to be the tone he preferred (Maybe still prefers, I dunno....). Chris followed through with that, for the same reasons, but others have stuck with the Middle only pup in position 3, myself included. Mike actually wrote up (and diagramed) both ways, so you can pick and choose whichever way you want to go. Fortunately for us, he also came up with a version that uses a standard DPDT switch, saving a few gilders for those who don't have R&D budgets the size of small city government. For the B+N version, look at this: (as found at the top of this post: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4415&page=1#39121)Sadly, the board's Search Engine has gotten real bad in the last few months, I (it) can't even find the Middle only version of this diagram. But we can always re-figure it out, if need be. Whadya think o' them apples? ;D sumgai
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Post by bikininspector on Dec 20, 2009 2:28:49 GMT -5
wow sumgay, that wiring is super awesome! just what i hoped for: the right options and little parts count! But if i understood JohnH right i will need the superswitch for that? johnH- its good to know that i can use my switch with the s-none config (that's the one i re-posted before, right?), thank you for pointing that out! The bypass cap option sounds interesting, i thing i will at least try that to check it out . So to reassure: does this mean the two joined poles represent "Z" on my switch? Still, i must admit that im intrigued by te B+N and B*N option to get that tele sound . As i said above, i guess the superswitch is needed to get that...? In that case i think i can cough up those 20 bucks for the superswitch. Still cheaper than a new guitar Maybe santa's in for it.... ;D Again thank you guys for helping me out. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head aroung signal tracing and switch interaction.. PS: swimwear, even though it's radioactive, turned out to be not the preferred outfit for tonight. I dont remember-15°C being that cold! Funnily, my roomate went swimming last night...
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Post by newey on Dec 20, 2009 8:06:18 GMT -5
Yes, you have a "common common", so to say. Yes. The MR uses a Superswitch. ChrisK's variations on the MR use either a Schaller Megaswitch, or the std 5-way. ChrisK's version with the Megaswitch "E" gives you the N+M in position 3, while the "S" type Megaswitch gives you the regular Strat combos, with M only at position 3. The Schaller goes for $16.25, maybe a bit cheaper than the Superswitch. Guitar Parts Depot carries them here: www.gpdusa.com/Schaller-Schaller_Megaswitches.htmlOf course, prices may vary depending on where you live. Bikini Atoll will, I suspect, be somewhat higher . . . ;D
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