jimly
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Post by jimly on Apr 25, 2020 16:53:29 GMT -5
This is EXACTLY what I've been imagining building. I wanted an off/on and phase switch for each pickup, and I wanted parallel and series options. I'm going to go build it. I'll be putting into a partscaster strat. I'm thinking of the three off switches being mini toggles where the blade switch used to be and using push pull pots for the phase switching. I'll try and fit the parallel/series switch in between there, maybe? I could also route out some space in the big empty area of the pickgaurd on the lower horn.
I have a couple questions before I start... From what I read above, 500k pots would be a decent choice for master volume and tone pots?
Also, any suggestions on choosing a 4pdt switch? I see DiMarzio make one, and it looks like switchcraft have a slide switch. Normally I just go with whatever I find on stewmac but I didn't see any 4pdt switch on there.
I'm a little new to all this... When I looked at some of the other sites, like mouser, I felt a little lost.
Thanks so much!
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Post by ourclarioncall on Apr 25, 2020 17:21:29 GMT -5
jimly
greetings jimly , a warm welcome from me I don’t know if your from U.K. or OZ or somewhere inbetween, but if your British I could give you some info on my recent purchases of different 4PDT mini toggle switches, prices, quality etc. If not, I’m sure the other guys on here will help point you in the right direction Good luck with the wiring 👍
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jimly
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by jimly on Apr 25, 2020 17:33:37 GMT -5
ourclarioncallI'm not British, unfortunately. I'm not certain why I put it that way... I'm from Maryland in the US. It is a pleasant place.
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Post by ourclarioncall on Apr 25, 2020 17:48:43 GMT -5
ourclarioncallI'm not British, unfortunately. I'm not certain why I put it that way... I'm from Maryland in the US. It is a pleasant place. Well I envy your great food and cheap electronic parts 😄 (compared to U.K.) I am a Scotsman but I am married to a Texan lass, so have have been through the states a few times. I love America and Americans and grew up on your movies and impersonating your accents. Never been to Maryland. The closet I’ve been is a day in New York. My First time in a yellow cab and the Middle Eastern driver got lost and didn’t know where to find our airport hotel 😬 I got all my switches on eBay. They either came from China (cheap) or the U.K. I also found websites like Mouser a bit overwhelming so eBay was simple enough to find what I was looking for. The variety of options such as “on-on” “on-none-on” , “on-off-on” etc was also a bit of a minefield but the guys on here will keep you right when your ready to make a purchase
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Post by newey on Apr 26, 2020 16:13:27 GMT -5
Electronics supply websites like Mouser will be much cheaper and have a much greater selection. Yes, the search filters can be a bit confusing, but it's worth the effort.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 26, 2020 22:54:17 GMT -5
Or you could just use Bingle, with a search term like "resistor 270K Ohm 1/4 watt site:www.mouser.com" Once you get to the site, you can refine whatever addtional terms they throw at you.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 21, 2020 22:07:34 GMT -5
Just spend some time looking at a few of the Brian may series/parallel schemes tonight and wondering ....... Would it be possible to swap the three on/off switches for three of retreads “half-volume, off, full volume” switches ?
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Post by JohnH on Jul 22, 2020 3:51:13 GMT -5
Just spend some time looking at a few of the Brian may series/parallel schemes tonight and wondering ....... Would it be possible to swap the three on/off switches for three of retreads “half-volume, off, full volume” switches ? Sadly I'd say not in this case, or at least not without considerable added complication. The on/off switches in this scheme are doing special extra things to keep the series and parallel functions working properly.
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 11:17:27 GMT -5
JohnH thanks John. Yeah, that’s what I suspected. I see what you mean about the complexity of the series /parallel. Two questions 1. would you see any problem putting volume switches first in line after the pickups and before the phase switches ? And also a master volume last in line before the output jack ? I’ve tried these switches for both pickup volume and master volume in other circuits and they seems to work fine. I have a full, 2 thirds, one third in my current circuit for master volume and it’s pretty cool. The 2 thirds setting cleans up the crunch/overdrive nicely for chords/Rhythm but doesn’t cut the volume too extreme. 2. what about half out of phase ? Could I introduce some sort of switch somewhere with a cap or caps for each pickup ? Both series and parallel ? a bit hypothetical at the moment but 7 extra switches (which is Nutz even for my refined and maturing self 🙃), 3 pickup volume , 1 master volume, 3 hoop switches
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 11:34:12 GMT -5
Another idea was to drop two of the phase switches and keep one , and replace the two discarded ones with a volume switch and a half out of phase switch. could wire all three to the neck pickup or whatever pickup is best
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Post by JohnH on Jul 22, 2020 17:18:03 GMT -5
Not sure how a hoop switch would be in this circuit, or what it might comprise.
With the extra volume switches, could be done, but id suggest to reconfigure them so when at max, the pickup goes straight through with no resistors connected to it. This is yo avoid excess loading that could dull the tone.
Also, if you were using the volume switches to set mixes of pickups, I think youd find that the reduced volume pickups are totally dominated by the full volume ones in a parallel mix. Mixing of reduced volume pups tends to lead to different volume settings in series and parallel.
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 17:39:02 GMT -5
Not sure how a hoop switch would be in this circuit, or what it might comprise. With the extra volume switches, could be done, but id suggest to reconfigure them so when at max, the pickup goes straight through with no resistors connected to it. This is yo avoid excess loading that could dull the tone. Also, if you were using the volume switches to set mixes of pickups, I think youd find that the reduced volume pickups are totally dominated by the full volume ones in a parallel mix. Mixing of reduced volume pups tends to lead to different volume settings in series and parallel. Thanks John, some food for thought for me. Yeah I previously noticed the last point you made about the reduced volume pups having differing volumes in series and parallel in a previous circuit I tried. Could you explain what you mean by reconfiguring the switches to avoid excess loading . I kind of get loading but only in a very basic way. I’m guessing you mean change how the module is wired , not move it from being first in line after the pickup ? Excuse my ignorance ☺️
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Post by JohnH on Jul 22, 2020 18:01:27 GMT -5
Yes its a reconfiguring of the same parts. The module is fine where it is in the overall circuit through.
It'd work like a bypass switch on a pedal. Input from pickup to one pole (ie a middle switch lug), output from the other pole. At max, the input and output get directly connected via a link across two outer lugs. At reduced volume they feed through the volume and treble-bleed parts.
Also note that with such volume switches, in this scheme, there should be no direct ground at the volume switches. Instead two pickup wires come in and two go out, and grounding happens downstream according to other settings. Use the '-' pickup wires instead of a ground.
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 18:12:29 GMT -5
Yes its a reconfiguring of the same parts. The module is fine where it is in the overall circuit through. It'd work like a bypass switch on a pedal. Input from pickup to one pole (ie a middle switch lug), output from the other pole. At max, the input and output get directly connected via a link across two outer lugs. At reduced volume they feed through the volume and treble-bleed parts. Very interesting. Ok, rather than ask for a diagram , il go and do my homework and see if I can figure it out 😁 But if my brain melts I might need to come back for some hints
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 19:16:10 GMT -5
Am I anywhere close to getting this right 😄 I just copied retreads switch (but left out the treble bleed part)
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 22, 2020 19:21:37 GMT -5
Oops
i forgot to bare this in mind
”Also note that with such volume switches, in this scheme, there should be no direct ground at the volume switches. Instead two pickup wires come in and two go out, and grounding happens downstream according to other settings. Use the '-' pickup wires instead of a ground.”
okay back to the drawing board ....
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 24, 2020 17:58:16 GMT -5
JohnHwell, I think I will have to admit defeat lol . Here is my attempt. Any hints and tips appreciated
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Post by JohnH on Jul 24, 2020 18:24:04 GMT -5
previous version was close. Like this: Instead of a real ground, the local 'not really ground' is the other pickup wire. Pickup is coming in from the left, and to the right it carries on to the rest of the circuit. Added a cap for treble bleed - for this case, id guess something small maybe 0.33nF but best to experiment
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 24, 2020 19:08:07 GMT -5
JohnH Thanks very much. hows this look? If it’s okay, I have another question- could the leg of the resistor that’s touching the blue ground be connected To the phase switch The same place the blue ground connects ? Just to keep it more Tidy / stable, than having it floating .
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Post by JohnH on Jul 24, 2020 20:04:24 GMT -5
your latest diagram looks OK
Yes that fine, its the same electrical connections in principle but much better to make all solder joints to switch (and pot) lugs
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 24, 2020 20:15:29 GMT -5
JohnHnice one . Well that was a fun little exercise , I enjoyed that . Appreciate the help now I’ve got series/parallel , phasing, volume control, logical individual pickup control, all pickups off kill switch, the only other thing I could think of that I could possibly want is half out of phase. The question is is the circuit too complex for me to attempt to try and place a switch and some caps for both series and parallel ? If it is that’s ok , I don’t mind sacrificing it as it’s a brilliant design already with lots of variation
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Post by JohnH on Jul 24, 2020 23:15:46 GMT -5
On the Hoop, still not sure about that, and I don't know how to implement something like that without creating multiple quirky settings that aren't that useful.
Also I think that if you have these volume switches, plus you have the basic phase switches, then it should give a lot of possibilities for mixing things partially including partly out of phase. You can experiment with values for the resistors and cap to make the most useful extra option. Whatever you do, if you base the volume switches on the latest diagram, then when its off its completely out of circuit with no detriment to the basic operation and tone, meaning that you are free to try different things.
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 26, 2020 8:21:47 GMT -5
On the Hoop, still not sure about that, and I don't know how to implement something like that without creating multiple quirky settings that aren't that useful. Also I think that if you have these volume switches, plus you have the basic phase switches, then it should give a lot of possibilities for mixing things partially including partly out of phase. You can experiment with values for the resistors and cap to make the most useful extra option. Whatever you do, if you base the volume switches on the latest diagram, then when its off its completely out of circuit with no detriment to the basic operation and tone, meaning that you are free to try different things. I was recently pondering along the same lines , that how much difference is there really between phase, hoop and volume cut , or combinations of these. It’s a bit like bold colours and subtle shades. I think I will put the hoop on the shelf for the moment — Possibly the half volume is good enough to get variation , but my brain wants to squeeze as much functionality/variation out of a switch as possible, so wondering... How hard to make a variation of the volume switch that gives an extra volume cut? For example - bypass/half volume/quarter volume ? Or actually , since I have been using full volume /two thirds/one third that would be my preference So just to clarify, how hard to change this - bypass/half volume into a - bypass/two thirds/one third ? Hope I’m making sense ! I did actually have a go at this myself and thought it would be “easy” or possible but in the end I couldn’t figure out a way. I assume it would need an on -on-on switch as that’s what I was doodling. Maybe it could be done with a 4PDT on-on-on but then it’s a lot of time/money for a small shade instead of a bold colour P.S, really excited to have stumbled on Andrew Roberts BM version, awesome 😎 , that brings down the switch count nicely and makes more room for my volume switches
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Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 29, 2020 19:07:20 GMT -5
JohnHive got this circuit wired up now . I left out the phase switches and the volume and tone pots. I just wanted to quickly explore the series and parallel sounds with 3 pickups for the first time ever. Last inline before the output jack I have one of retreads volume switches . So it’s like a 250k pot I think. i don’t know if it’s my imagination but the sounds seem darker . Like I’ve lost a little high end or something. I know I should expect humbucking sounds to do that anyway but for example bridge and middle in series sounded brighter/different on my 2 pickup circuit than it does on your 3 pickup one is it possible that the same setting could sound darker between 2 and 3 pickup circuits ? Again, it could just be my imagination. im using the same volume switch as a master volume on both circuits so the loading ? Should be the same ?
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Post by JohnH on Jul 29, 2020 23:38:17 GMT -5
If its the same pickup types, same model, with same volume and/ot tone circuit, then the sound should be the same. Ie, having a third pickup in the wiring but its off, shouldn't affect the tone significantly.
How about checking resistance reading at the guitar output jack, hot to ground, to see if they are the same?
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Post by infinitesoundguy on Nov 17, 2020 1:05:49 GMT -5
Thanks, JohnH. Used your wiring diagram. The added Strat-like feel and tones made this well worth the effort.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 17, 2020 4:14:21 GMT -5
It looks great! thanks for posting.
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oettam
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Post by oettam on May 9, 2022 18:02:42 GMT -5
Thanks for this What happens removing the on off switches and turning off each pick-up with the phase switch by using on off on dpdt switches? Hanging hot wires and noise? Even if the cavity is well shielded? This a design for three single-coil pickups, with an on/off control for each one and an overall series/parallel switch. It is based here on extending the options on a Brian May ‘Red Special‘ guitar, which normally only has series wiring. As on the BM, a phase switch is provided for each pickup. These are optional. The system can be applied to any guitar with SSS pickups. The core of the design is the series parallel wiring, which works in series mode by putting all the pickups in a series chain, then bypassing the unused ones. Parallel works, as might be expected, by grounding one end of each pickup and connecting the others to hot, or not. Here is the wiring diagram – Original image URL: www.jocidapark.com.au/circuits/GN2/BMseriespara05012010.gifOn a BM guitar, the dpdt’s are slide switches (down = ‘on’), but they can also be mini-toggles in which case ‘up’ will be ‘on’ This was the discussion thread: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4641&page=1For further insight, and schematics describing the basis of it, the design is based on this: Tone Monster2 – Series and Parallel for SSSAnd on Wolfs site, he has this: SuperStrat switching modAlso, see this from newey, which offers a different range of series/parallel sounds on a BM guitar, using one of the phase switches instead of adding a new switch: Parallel tones from Brian May guitarFinally, Killheart7, who built this BM design, has posted some excellent sound samples that show the difference in series/parallel switching: series/parallel sound samplesCheers John
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Post by JohnH on May 9, 2022 22:48:15 GMT -5
Hi oettam, thanks for posting. on-off-on switches wouldn't work in this design because when in series mode, any switch that is off will break the series chain and stop the other pickups too.
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oettam
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Post by oettam on May 10, 2022 13:55:17 GMT -5
Thanks john I‘ll take the challenge and try to design something. I agree it won’t be as flexible as this but it’ll save 3 switches. I basically would like to do something with 3 on off on switches ( that fit nicely in place of the 5 way switch) and 2 push pull only. Any idea to achieve something similar to this?
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