Alternate Strat 5-way Wiring

[minions]

Is there a way, with either a standard 5-way switch or a 5-way super switch to have the following options on a Strat?

1 Neck
2 Neck and Middle
3 Neck and Bridge (in series)
4 Bridge and Middle
5 Bridge

Thanks.

[newey]

Minions-

Can't be done with a regular Strat switch. I believe a Superswitch could do it, although I haven't worked out the wiring yet.

Recall that, with a regular Strat switch, positions 2 and 4 are not independently wireable- the switch is really a 3-position switch with 2 added "notch" positions. Position 2 will always give you a parallel combination of 1 and 3; position 4 gives a parallel combo of 3 and 5.

There is a way to get B*M and B+N with a regular 5-way switch (or, it could be N*M, reversing the scheme):

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=modules&action=display&thread=3761

Page down to ChrisK's response for the Strat version, which gives:

1. Bridge and middle in series
2. Middle coil, bridge coil and neck coil shorted
3. Middle in series with (neck in parallel with bridge)
4. Bridge coil in parallel with neck (hum hint), middle coil shorted
5. Neck coil

Also note, as Chris mentioned, that with a std Strat set of pickups, any combination of N and B, whether in series or parallel, will not be hum-canceling.

Now, if you really must have N*B and have that position be hum-canceling, you could wire the guitar as per that diagram, and then physically move the neck pickup to the middle position and put the middle in the neck spot (assuming your wires are long enough). This would then give you:

1) N*B (hum-canceling)
2) N (B and M shorted)
3) N * (M + B)
4) B + M (not hum-canceling)
5) M

Note that, in all of this discussion, the position numbered "1" on the 5-way corresponds to the position closest to the bridge.

This is the only way I know to have B * N using a std 5-way switch, and it won't be in the middle position. Also, you lose the "bridge alone" setting in all of these schemes.

[minions]

Thanks for that, it all sounds great. But I guess I should have mentioned this earlier, I have a super switch.

[JohnH]

Certainly with a Superswitch there will be several ways to do this.

But, just to be a smart-butt, here is a way with a standard 5 way:



It has the Bridge and Neck wired in series, and one of them is shunted in positions 1, 2, 4 and 5, using half the switch, leaving both in series in position 3. The second half connects in the Middle in positions 2 and 4, not actually using the pole of the switch, but instaed using the fact that the centre lug gets bridged to an outer lug in 2 and 4.

cheers

John

[minions]

Hey thanks! That looks great! Will it do exactly what I want it to?

[JohnH]

Apr 1, 2010 16:07:42 GMT -5 minions said:

Hey thanks! That looks great! Will it do exactly what I want it to?

yes I think it will:
N, N+M, NxB, B+M, B

You'd have to add the pots of course, and since it is a schematic, relate the diagram to the layout of your switch.

Thinking further on that:
the volume is just a simple master volume after the switching. Put your two tone pots directly wired to the bridge and neck pickups (with their own tone caps). You'll get independent tone control in 1 and 2 with one tone pot and in 4 and 5 with the other. And in position 3, you have tone control of both pups independently. This gives you an extra special sound, with neck tone fully down and bridge fully up. This is a clear bright sound with bridge treble, but with neck power and weight.

Hey, this is a good scheme - and deserves to be developed. Can you take it from there or do you want more diagram help? its better if you do it if you are able to.

John

[minions]

Hey, alright that sounds great. Nope, I think I can take it from here. Thanks again!

[newey]

John-

Good work. +1!

Whenever I make these blanket statements that It Can't Be Done, along comes one of the Nutz to prove me wrong.

I like this scheme a lot, and as mentioned, replacing either the bridge or neck with a RWRP pup would make #3 hum-canceling, at the cost of hum-canceling in either 2 or 4, depending.

This would give the "super-wide humbucker" sound.

[sumgai]

newey,

minions said that he has already has a superswitch. John's scheme won't work with that because it depends (as per John's own description) on the "standard" Strat switch having the "built-in shorting" function. As with the better-quality Strat switches (Oak-Grigsby, et al), superswitches don't have that capability, they have a unique terminal (lug) for each switch position.... no shorting going on there.

All of which means, a new (and cheap) switch is in minions' future, if he wants this simple but oh-so-elegant scheme.


And a note to John.....

Your diagram doesn't include switch position numbers. I foresee that someone will come along and wire it up, only to find that their switch "works backwards".   Could I interest you in editing your diagram to include position numbers, please?

Thanks.


HTH





sumgai

[JohnH]

Although a standard Fender-style switch is the smplest way to do this scheme, it can be done with a superswitch, using two poles in parallel with lugs 1-2 and 3-4 bridged on one, and 2-3, 4-5 bridged on the other, to replicate the lug-bridging featuire of each pole of the the original switch. If this is wanted, I can sketch it out.

I purposfully did not atempt to number lugs, beacuse I am not sure of what is the standard convention for 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 ! getting this part right is a feature to be incorporated into a finely considered wiring diagram. Although I could do this if needed, Minions has noted that he has enough to go on at this time.

cheers

John

[sumgai]

John,

Yes, I also thought of "doubling up" on the superswitch poles, but that seems wasteful to me....

For the numbering, I left out (not on purpose, mind you ) that I would have simply gone with newey's contribution above, which stated "Position 1 is closest to the bridge". Even if the generally accepted usage changes (again!), at least for the purposes of this thread, the description and diagram would be consistent.



sumgai

[minions]

Yes, I do have a super switch but i have no problem purchasing a new standard 5-way if it's to use this schematic. I have no problem with the numbers of the positions, but you're right sumgai, I'm sure there will be someone to come along that might mix this up.

Thanks again to John for the schematic, I think it's just genius.

Oh and sumgai, I like your signature about Chuck Berry. Haha, I love that movie.

[newey]

Yes, my numbering convention was, indeed, unconventional. I was taking it from the descriptions in the other thread, and didn't bother to renumber them.

Ultimately, we can blame it on Deaf Eddie, since it was his diagram that was listed that way originally!

I think John's schematic, appropriately cleaned up, should go into Design Modules.

[JohnH]

Ok, well, I think we have stumbled on another neat design here, so I am going to do a wiring diagram for it. Ill do it first with a standard Fender switch, since it leads to the opportunity for anyone with an unmodified Strat to make the mod with no extra parts needed, other than a second tone cap.

If required, you can use the greater functionality of a superswitch to replicate a standard switch however, which uses more poles but it would work fine and it cound save buying a new switch.

John

[JohnH]

Hold the presses!

Minions has been doing his research, while also finishing off a schematic, and found some 'prior art'

This idea is actually by Hastings, who wrote it up for the original GN here:



Its the last diagram on that page, which Hastings called the 'Killer mod'



He had it all worked out by 2004!

Appologies and congrats to Hastings.

I'll just go back to working on this other new idea I have, to put these round things at each corner of my car to help it roll better.....

cheers
John

[newey]

A case of "parallel innovation", I see.

As well as a failure of institutional memory- for which I hold myself somewhat responsible!

Hasting's scheme is a good one, we should still repost it, with credit of course, in Design Modules for future reference, and in case the original GNuts site goes to the web graveyard.

I'm surprise we haven't had any discussion of the "Killer Mod" (at least, any that I recall . . ).

[JohnH]

Apr 2, 2010 17:50:09 GMT -5 newey said:

A case of "parallel innovation", I see.

Meanwhile...six years earlier.....

I still really like this idea, so in exchange for the un-earned karma points (but thks anyway), here is a version of a wiring diagram to go with Hastings' Schematic:



John

[minions]

Nice! Good job!

[minions]

Okay I wired my Strat this way, and it sounds great! Well, except for two things. The middle pickup is out-of-phase, I had forgotten that it was a different polarity than the neck and bridge, but it's not a problem, I can just switch the leads. But I put in a tone cap switch for the neck tone pot and I'm not sure if I wired it incorrectly or what, but it doesn't make a difference in tone when I switch capacitors.

Here's what I did (22nf and 47nf):



Is this wrong?

[cynical1]

If what you're after is the Free Woman Tone, then it won't work with the switch or wiring you currently have detailed.

See the Free Woman Tone posting for reference.

HTC1

[ashcatlt]

It'll only get you two cap values as is, but it should work. You're aware that the cap only really effects the tone when the control is almost all the way down?

[minions]

It's fine if I just get two capacitor sounds, but I found this, which is where I think chrisk got the idea for his Free Woman Tone:

www.1728.com/guitar3.htm

It's wolf 's site, go down to 2 Capacitor Tone Control. According to this, it seems I have the capacitor leads in the wrong place, all I have to do is switch them to the tone wiper tab and switch the hot lead to the volume pot.

[JohnH]

It makes no difference which order the cap and pot are placed in a guitar tine control, nor which way round you connect the two used lugs on the pot. I would think that your switch should work as you drew it, but only making a significant difference at low tone settings

John

[minions]

Oh okay, that's weird, I should try that. Why does it only work at low tone settings? Is there any way to change it?

[ashcatlt]

Most of the action of the tone control comes from the inductance of the pickup and the capacitance of the cable. The tone cap itself is just not affecting the signal much until the tone control gets way down there. I always think of it as though the cap is "hidden" from the circuit by the resistance of the pot, but I don't think that's exactly accurate.

No, there's nothing you can do about it.

[minions]

Oh okay, that makes sense. But I turned the pot all the way down and toggled the switch back and forth and I couldn't hear any difference. Is it supposed to make only a subtle difference even when the tone pot is at 1?

[sumgai]

minions,

As usual, when something doesn't make sense, go back to square one, where it did make sense.

In this case, disconnect one of the two capacitors from the switch, and see what happens...... then get back to us.



sumgai