Superswitch Squared HSH design

[newey]

I've been playing around with the idea of a dual-superswitch set-up for a HSH guitar. This is heavy with single coil and parallel sounds, no series combos. It gives 9 combinations with what I think is a fairly straightforward manipulation of 2 lever switches.



Do I have this right?

[sumgai]

OK, I'll bite......

Now bear in mind, this comes hard on the heels of my having promoted you to The NutzHouse Official Translator of Arcane Lore, over here. So, how do I handle this?

Ah yes, in my own inimitalbe fashion, that should do it, eh?

.......


Alrighty then....

First, as you know, I stop when I've encountered three "uh-oh's". So the list is necessarily short, but hopefully I'll've left you the necessary clues to fix these, and potentially all the other, problems.

1) You've way over-grounded everything here! Numbering your switch poles from top to bottom as A-D, take a look at S1B, pos 1.... it goes to ground, via a long path (per the diagram). The wiper also goes to ground..... Ditto for S1D - duplicate grounding.

My suggestion is to go back to color coding, to help you identify where you think ground wires are running. There are other ground paths here that really could have been more direct, and thus easier to decipher.

2) The Middle pup is always going to ground via S2B, pos's 1-4, regardless of S1's status. Additionally, the Middle pup's hot lead is directly connected to the Neck's hot lead at all times. I think this is gonna disgorge "a big surprise" in how often the Middle pickup shows up in the output.

3) When selecting S1, pos 4, the Bridge pup will have both coils active (in parallel) if S2 is in pos's 3-5.

There's more, but those stood out as I analyzed it again, for this reply.


Discussion:

First, I note that you're no longer asking for help in PM's. This show that you're now confident in your ability to "dream up" and execute on your fantasies. Should +1 you for that, but then again, every one here goes through that phase, so doing such would slightly diminish the meaning of Karma. Sorry bud, no points here (but you did earn one over there, as linked above. ).

Second, I'd like to quote myself (as it adds spice to my conversations!) and remind you that one should use what's in the "parts box" or "junk bin" first, before going out and buying stuff. This uses two switches that could cost as little as $20 the pair, or as much as $40 the pair. That's pretty hefty for 9 pickup combinations.

Now, don't let me deter you from achieving what you want, I'm only acting as a bean counter here - you can derive at least 15 or 20 combos, should you so choose, and possibly up to 25 differing combos, although it gets more and more difficult to obtain non-duplicates, the higher you go with only two switches. Just something to ponder, that's all.

Third, I saw no N+B (both single coils) combos here.... How are you gonna get a good Surf tone if you omit this most important tonality?!


HTH




sumgai

[newey]

Thanks, SG- I figured this might not yet be ready for prime time. So, it's back to the drawing board. I also would like to incorporate N + B.

It occurs to me that I can solve some of the problems you pose by having S-1, pos 3 select the N+B SC combo, and relegating the middle pickup to S-2 only, with pos. 3 on S-2 giving the middle alone instead of all 3. S-2 would then give std Start selections, albeit with HBs at the ends.

[JohnH]

I had a look last night, but it was post-whiskey and my head started to spin.

Heres a couple more random points - i only looked at one combo, being the S1 Bridge south coil, in position 5 of S1. The lowest coil of the bridge seems to rely on the other switch S2 in order to reach ground, so sometimes if S2 is set elsewhere it would not do so.

Other point is that the jack looks inverted

The idea is good though, to allow some pre-setting of controls so you can get the on-the-fly changes you want all on one switch, having set the other siuitably.

John

[sumgai]

John,

Good catch. I have to admit, this should have popped out at me. Since I usually work left-to-right, and since I stopped at 3, I completely missed something so simple.

Ah well, at least newey has a chance to make good before we sock it to him again. (!)

;D


sumgai

[newey]

Here's take two, in which I hopefully resolved some issues and rejiggered the combos so as to get N + Br, and added NN*M.

So, let fly at this latest take, gentlemen!

[JohnH]

I'm still seeing some funkyness here. eg S1 position 3, BS, which is not intended to be part of this setting, can get connected in if S2 is in position 4 or 5. In general, unless S1 is in position 1, it is desirable that S2 is completely inactive, otherwise it can mess with combos set by S1.

I think it needs a further architectural concept for how the poles function to achieve this, ahead of laying out a diagram.

I cant quite see it at the moment, but dont stop!

John

[sumgai]

newey,

Boy are you a glutton for..... but then again, this is how you learn, eh?

OK, I tried all your combos, not stopping at just 3 errors. Here's what I found:


1) When S1 is in pos 3 and S2 is in pos 1, you get the desired combo, but you also have a hanging hot - NN's negative (polarity) side is tied to the output, and its positive side is unconnected. Just a potential for noise, I wouldn't place too much importance on it just now - you've got bigger fish to fry.

2) When S1 is in pos's 3 or 4, and S2 is in pos's 4 or 5, you'll find that BS is also active. Respectively, this yields (BN+BS) + NS and (BN+BS).

Fortunately, you have S1D available to counter this. Since S2 should be active only when S1 is in pos 1, use S1D1 and the wiper to control the connection between BN and S2D's wiper. This will make the connection only when in pos 1, and break it at all other times.

3) When S1 is in pos1 and S2 is in pos 4 or 5, you'll get no output at all. Check it out, you'll find that nearly every signal path is incomplete.

Upon reviewing for general correctness, I see that John has slightly ninja'd me. Funky indeed!

Take a break for the day, do some "real" work for a change, and let this percolate. Then tonight, fire up both grey cells and lick this thing. ;D

HTH



sumgai

[newey]

Dang! Thought I had it this time . . .

2) When S1 is in pos's 3 or 4, and S2 is in pos's 4 or 5, you'll find that BS is also active. Respectively, this yields (BN+BS) + NS and (BN+BS).

Fortunately, you have S1D available to counter this. Since S2 should be active only when S1 is in pos 1, use S1D1 and the wiper to control the connection between BN and S2D's wiper. This will make the connection only when in pos 1, and break it at all other times.

OK, I see that now. I was so proud of myself for saving that extra pole, too!

3) When S1 is in pos1 and S2 is in pos 4 or 5, you'll get no output at all. Check it out, you'll find that nearly every signal path is incomplete.

Ok, I think I see the problem here, too. The problem is the commons connection at S1C- it has to connect to the vol hot for S1 to connect the bridge SC choices, but screws up my series path on S2.

Thanks guys, back to the drawing board again!

John, I take your point about architecture. Originally, I thought I had an architecture- S1 had 2 poles for connecting the hots for the SC settings, and 2 poles for lifting the grounds on the coils used in series by S2. S-2 then just controlled the series stuff and the combo settings. That architecture kinda went by the wayside, once I changed it to put the M pup solely on S2.

I think, though, that I like the combos chosen by this version, assuming the switching can be made right. It gives the N+B and also the NN*M, so there's at least one series combo- or at least, that was the way I thought of it.

[JohnH]

I think the key might be to turn the switch poles around, so the poles of S1 are on the pup outputs
How about something like this:

The Hb pickups are wired in series, as usual, each with one end grounded, Middle also has one end grounded. Coil cuts are done by shunting.

S1
Poles 1 and 2 are connected to the hot wires of neck and bridge, the lugs send these either to the main output as required in pos 2 to 5, or to S2 in pos 1
Pole 3 is on the main output, and in pos 2 to 5, shunts the upper coils of N or B where required, in pos 1, it connects the main output to a pole of S2 which will control middle
Pole 4 is connected either to ground, or to the series junction of one of the pickups (I’m not sure which), and does more coil shunting where necessary in positions 2 to 5

S2
is only given access to the hot outputs of B or N if S1 is at 1, and it only gets to connect M to output if S1 is at 1. One of its poles controls M, the other three are used for N and B

Its half an idea, not worked out, but maybe?

John

[axekicker]

Jeezus, that looks confusing. Wish I could read it.

[newey]

Axe-

Don't waste your time trying to read it, since as noted, it's not in a workable form yet. JohnH has pointed me in the right direction on this, but I haven't had the time to go and revisit it.

And it is tough to read, because it's complex and because I used the same color for all the wires, which hurts legibility.

But don't worry if you can't read a schematic, those are used for designing circuits. When it's time to actually wire up such a scheme, the schematic is then translated into a wiring diagram, showing the actual physical parts and their connections.

So, most of the designs around here, sooner or later, get drawn up as a wiring diagram which anyone can "read".

If you're new to guitar wiring, our member wolf's website has a good discussion of the basics:

www.1728.com/guitar.htm

And if you're still stumped about something, ask questions, that's why we're here.