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Post by wolf on Apr 7, 2010 15:23:07 GMT -5
Here is the guitar: It originally came with ceramic P-90's which were changed to an alnico set of P-90's which were finally changed to a set of mini-humbuckers. (as shown in the picture). I sure as heck did not like the P-90 sound at all. (neither ceramic nor alnico) The mini-humbuckers have an interesting sound. They don't have the high output of a regular humbucker but they do have a nice treble range - not quite a "Strat™ sound" but still sharp-sounding. (The treble is quite good even when the humbuckers are in series). To explain the wiring, that is my own Super Seven Switching™ which is a circuit that was independently discovered by myself and a bunch of Guitar Nuts (JohnH, ChrisK, UncleMickey and probably many others). If you counted 9 switches you are correct. I added a solo switch and the switch in the upper left hand corner does absolutely nothing. The guitar picks are there to cover holes that were previously drilled for the four pots. The one remaining pot is a tone control fitted with a speed knob because I like the look of it.
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Apr 7, 2010 20:49:36 GMT -5
No volume? Brash, but I don't see alot of guitarists ACTUALLY using the volume pot. I try, but I will admit that I'm bad when it comes to backing off on the volume. VERY bad when there isn't another guitarist to give me dirty looks...
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2010 21:22:33 GMT -5
Wolf- I like! The "pick"guards are a neat touch., +1!
Query, though, how was that Agile LP out of the box? Neck OK, frets level, etc?
I've been looking at these for a while at Rondo Music.com, I'm wondering how the quality is compared to other Asian copies like Epiphone's LPs?
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Post by wolf on Apr 7, 2010 21:57:07 GMT -5
newey The Agile guitar is very good and is set up quite well right "out of the box". A friend of mine bought a similar guitar and he likes it a lot. Yes, I highly recommend it. I'm glad you like my "pick" idea and it is really a good solution for covering over mistakes or even entire "pot" holes. As we all know, guitar picks are very tough and they can give a switch a lot of support for something that is only 1 millimeter thick. I rely on volume controls less and less and since I don't appear on stage, I think it is something I can live without.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 9, 2010 1:46:02 GMT -5
It lives.
Volume knobs are silly... even on stage, says me.
They're too sloppy.
Random thought.... Anyone here ever replace one with something like a 5 position? Seems more precise.
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Post by newey on Apr 9, 2010 5:40:46 GMT -5
ChrisK and I had some back-and-forth PMs about doing just that a couple of years ago, using 3 resistors and a regular Strat 5-way switch. I'll have to go back and see what I have. I recall diagramming it.
The problem is, with a regular 5-way switch, positions 2 and 4 are just shorting out 1 & 3, and 3 & 5, respectively. This means that the resistors you put at 1 and 3, for example, are going to be connected in parallel at position 2, halving the combined values. So, you won't get a progression of ever-decreasing volumes. You'll have 5 separate volume settings, but they won't be "in order", so to speak.
I don't recall offhand whether we ever came up with a solution to that problem. Of course, one could use a Superswitch with 5 (or 4, leaving one position "straight out") separate resistors.
Ash has ranted in the past about removing volume controls from the guitar- his solution is to move it to the floor, in the form of a volume pedal.
Another solution would be a pot with detents. These exist, but I have yet to find any with a value of interest for guitar use (i.e., 250K or 500KΩ)
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Post by wolf on Apr 9, 2010 16:50:07 GMT -5
The problem with a 5 way switch is that you have to cut through a lot of guitar wood in order to install one, which is why you never see me discussing them (or Super-Switches for that matter.) Still, the alternative volume control seems like an interesting idea. How about something such as a regular 6 position rotary switch with 5 resistors with the 6th position wired so that it is a "no-load" position? Yes, no matter how you wire a volume control, it is always going to put some load on your signal. Because of that most of my guitars have just one tone control and that's it.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 9, 2010 17:07:17 GMT -5
I was thinking rotary, actually.
But yeah, let's be serious... Pedal is the only way to go, here.
I like to do fade in sounds from time to time, and that really makes the pedal a must have.
Okay, one more thought. How many positions do most people use on a volume knob? I know I play with a few guys who tend to use the 7-8ish area on their knobs to prevent "clipping."
I always get giggly about this and point at my boss ME-50 and my Blackstar tube head.
Other than that, it's full volume or dead... I think a three way would cut it, no?
The other day one of my friends said something to me about his rig, or guitar, or something... All I said to him was "you never joined that forum I told you about, did you?"
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Apr 9, 2010 19:28:07 GMT -5
I use full blast, 7-8ish, 3-5, and off.
If one were to combine a 3-way switch with a mini toggle to turn the pup on or off, that might be interesting. Free neck-on? HA! I have free ALL on. Of course, you could use push-pull pots to have 3 tone controls WITH the pup on/off.
EDIT: It seems we have gotten off topic. ON TOPIC, very nice looking guitar. Whats-it, a mahogany body?
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Post by wolf on Apr 9, 2010 21:45:38 GMT -5
ijustwannastratYes, it is a mahogany body and you can read more about the guitar here: www.rondomusic.com/al2000p90.htmlHow about a discussion about mini-humbuckers? There have been many "P-90" discussions on Guitar Nuts but I don't remember any about mini-humbuckers.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 9, 2010 22:07:05 GMT -5
My LP has a p-90 in the bridge and a stock gibson mini hum in the neck. Great range of tone with those two. The mini is surprisingly full(bassy), but still has that slight punch(middy) you don't see as much from full sized humbuckers.
It's my go-to for clean in the studio unless I need a little more sparkle(trebly), which I actually get from my Duncan livewires, as they seem to ME to have scooped mids. Dunno if the SD tone chart agrees.
I didn't like the stock bridge pickup at all. It had a hollow, thin sound(unbassy?) that reminded me of a humbucker trying to act like a single... I also hate on bridge humbuckers, so maybe it's just me.
I'm sure some day I'll get a sp 90-1 from SD... or a lollar, or something to throw in and test out, but until then I'm happy with the humbucker they put in it.
What p-90s did you go through and which minis do you currently have?
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Post by newey on Apr 9, 2010 22:29:13 GMT -5
Actually, I find myself using my volume pot quite a bit, particularly when the wife yells "turn it down!" ;D
No, seriously, I do use it, especially on my guitars with series/parallel options. In series, I keep it at about a "7", and then turn it WFO when I switch to parallel, keeps the outputs roughly the same.
And wolf's right, we haven't had any discussion of minis around here. Some time back, I was contemplating a 3-mini HB Strat, but I immediately thought that the pole spacing might be off- but I never bothered to actually check if that was so.
Warmoth will sell a pickguard for a Strat with mini-HB routs at all 3 positions, so that had the ol' juices flowing . . .
But I do like the sound of them better than most HBs. I played an old T-bird with 'em years ago and liked it a lot.
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Post by wolf on Apr 9, 2010 22:38:12 GMT -5
sydsbluesky The P-90's originally were the ones that came with the guitar and then I ordered an alnico set from GuitarFetish. I had those in the guitar for a few years but then I decided to change over to mini-humbuckers (also from GuitarFetish). I'm happy with the pickup change but then again, a 2 humbucker guitar opened up a huge selection of tone options. With 2 P90's there were only 6 tone options - neck ;bridge ; both in parallel; both in series; parallel out of phase; and series out of phase.
newey I was wondering if mini-humbuckers are less common than P-09's. (I think they are but I'm not sure).
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 9, 2010 23:34:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see volume pot being useful with S/P, where you want to volume match the two with carefully selected and.... easily reproducible... preset... accurate... selections... on a volume knob...!!!! EGADS! Position 1 - off position 2 - series w/rolloff position 3 - series w/o rolloff +parallel w/rolloff position 4 - parallel I mean, yeah... that's 4. Probably looking at having 5, right? No. Not today, sir. Not Today. I feel comfortable with 4 right now. I already have everything ready to go with the Dean, and I'm thinking of keeping the ESP how it is... My mom threatened to raise my rent if I buy any more guitars, so I don't think I'll be testing this one any time soon... but I like the thought. And yes, Wolf. I think minis tend to be a bit less common than P-90s... but don't take my word for it. Until I was 13 I thought Jesus was a rabbit.
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 10, 2010 0:06:50 GMT -5
This is an interesting idea. Especially when doing cover band bar type gigs.
I remember playing with the controls in my spare time to get a particular tone for a song, then trying to replicate it quickly later between numbers on stage...sometimes I got it right, sometimes the beer won...
If you could drop in 5 different preset configurations, with a bypass for normal playing, this could be a Godsend...
Hmmmmm...where was this idea 30 years ago...
HTC1
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 10, 2010 1:00:28 GMT -5
I think I'm gonna crack and get a rotary for my Dean... it'll give me a reason to finally finish it and take pictures...
I can picture this one take a while to get right with the caps.
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Post by newey on Apr 10, 2010 10:55:07 GMT -5
Caps are a whole 'nother subject, one we've discussed numerous times. I was thinking of fixed resistors to drop overall volume.
Some pre-op testing would definitely be in order. You could wire the guitar as intended for series/parallel, then use a bunch of resistors outboard of the guitar to find the value needed to match the series/parallel settings.
I'm thinking that a 3P4T rotary would be needed.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 10, 2010 14:59:01 GMT -5
For a simple lever-switch to be used as a stepped volume control (or a stepped tone control, for that matter), you can't use what we all call the "standard" Strat-style switch. Those units have only thee terminals (solder lugs) per side, plus the common terminal. The physical layout might vary, and the build quality of the part might vary, but the theme is the same. This kind of switch is what we call a "shorting" switch, or sometimes you'll see it referred to as a "make before break" switch. Same thing, it just means that two terminals are temporarily connected together, while the lever is one particular position. What is needed here is a switch that has individual terminals for each position. This style is also be called a "break before make" or a "non-shorting" switch. If you find this switch with only two poles, it is not a superswitch - that designation is reserved for switches with four poles. The confusing part here is, sometimes a catalog or a website might call it a 5-way, whereas the 'standard' switch also has 5 positions, and is also called a 5-way switch. Watch what your getting, before plunking down your hard-earned shekels. It should be obvious how to use the 5-terminals switch as a stepped volume control, but just in case, I'd better ask anyways..... do I need to draw up a diagram of how to hook up such a beast? HTH sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 10, 2010 16:24:34 GMT -5
One of my first discussions on this board was re: my idea to use the 5-way as a stepped attenuator. I never actually implemented the idea becuase, as mentioned above, it requires a specialty switch which I did not really care to shell for. The link I had which explained how and why to design a stepped attenuator has long since gone dead, but it's really pretty straight-forward. It only needs 2 poles, though.
I'd say the easiest way to find appropriate resistor values would be to use a pot. You'll need to set it where you like it, remove it from the circuit (without changing the setting) and measure. For this reason, I'd suggest having the pot outside of the guitar. Oh, I guess we could measure the thing in circuit and then do some fancy math, but it's a lot easier the other way.
You'll need to know the resistance between the wiper and each lug. It should be obvious that if you once measure the distance between the two outside lugs, you'll only need to take one measurement each time.
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Post by newey on Apr 10, 2010 20:44:57 GMT -5
Got your back with the diagram, SG- using a Baja Tele 4-way switch. Pos. 1- direct out Pos. 2- through R1 Pos. 3- Through R2 Pos. 4- through R3 Actually, you could just use 2 resistors and have position 4 combine the 2 in series, or perhaps use Pos 2 to combine 2 in parallel. Now we just need to fill in the blanks on the values for the resistors.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 10, 2010 22:32:50 GMT -5
newey, Good first approximation! However, what you drew up is a current attenuator, and not a voltage divider. If you carefully read between the lines, ash tells you how to define the resistor values - between the wiper and each outer terminal. And that's what you're missing, one of the outer terminals. In point of fact, only one pole is needed for a stepped attenuator.... but just try to find a lever switch with only one pole. So, wasted half a switch or not, the idea still has merit for those who want a guaranteed-repeatable volume control. As it now looks like nothing more than our standard, garden variety volume pot, that's indeed exactly what it is.... only with some "stops" along the line. HTH sumgai p.s. Refer back to our PM's during December - we discussed this very concept, albeit with toggle switches instead of a lever switch.
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Post by Air-Guitar on Jun 7, 2010 3:36:03 GMT -5
...wasted half a switch or not, the idea still has merit ... Hi ! Here's a variation you or someone else might find useful, or at least mildly interesting: (( EDIT: Click image to see a larger version in a separate window )) The idea being to wire two pickups (e.g., Neck and Bridge single coils like on a Telecaster, or maybe dual humbuckers) into the 5-position "volume" switch, such that when the volume of one increases the volume of the other decreases. The result is a variable "blend" control with discrete presets. An improvement over the standard Tele 3-way "Neck / Neck+Bridge / Bridge" pickup select lever switch ? (The scheme pictured above might be an instance where one ought to consider adding "treble bleed" capacitors, for example to preserve the original brightness at the 50/50 middle position ?) For what it's worth, -- Jim P.S. I've not peformed any circuit analysis to justify the stated 75/25 volume ratios at positions 2 and 4 ... so take those claims with a grain of salt ... P.P.S. Regarding the analogy to a "standard, garden variety volume pot" -- clearly if all the resistors in the network have the same value, we've got ourselves a "linear taper" volume pot. Meanwhile progressive resistance values would be needed to replicate evenly-spaced presets on an "Audio taper" volume pot, correct ? Likewise, eliminating the upper two resistors on each side in the sketch above would deliver both input pickups at maximum output at position 3, and moving towards either extreme would decrease the value of the pickup input that the switch lever is moving away from. So rather than 100/0, 75/25, 50/50, 25/75, and 0/100, one could instead have 100/0, 100/50, 100/100, 50/100, and 0/100 ... or any desired mix, for that matter ....
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Post by JohnH on Jun 7, 2010 4:37:46 GMT -5
Hi AG, and welcome to GN2. I like your last suggestion best, with a 100:0, 100:50, 100:100, 50:100, 0:100 mix. Only two actual resistors are needed, the others are just wires or omitted, and it keeps the good tone of having at least one pup directly connected to output at all times cheers John
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Post by ashcatlt on Jun 7, 2010 11:57:26 GMT -5
I like that idea too. In fact, I think it's worth a +1, and on your very first post!
I think the "blend not pan" thing (with 100/100 in the middle) needs a total of 4 resistors (2 per pole).
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Post by Air-Guitar on Jun 7, 2010 21:21:30 GMT -5
Thanks Guys ! Since you both liked the variation I described in words only, I figured it would be worthwhile to document that alternative in a drawing others could grab and archive for future reference: (( EDIT: Click image above to open larger version in a new window )) (Being new here, please pardon me if I missed a forum etiquette sticky somewhere that asks for smaller image sizes ... in retrospect, these really don't need to be this large, relative to sumgai's example ... sorry :-) With a 4P5T superswitch (or better yet, a 3P or 4P11T rotary), no reason this idea couldn't be extended to three single coil pickups (like on a strat), or four coils in an HSS configuration. Regards, -- Jim
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Post by newey on Jun 7, 2010 21:48:18 GMT -5
AG- No, you're good. If it doesn't blow off the sides of my 15" monitor, it's the right size. . . And, Hello and Welcome! This sort of fixed volume attenuation, and the same for tone, is something much discussed around here, and your idea has a lot of merit.
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Post by Air-Guitar on Jun 8, 2010 0:34:48 GMT -5
AG- No, you're good. If it doesn't blow off the sides of my 15" monitor, it's the right size. . . My lame "request for forgiveness in lieu of permission" was somehwat of an after-thought ... once I set about browsing to find the recommended maximum image width, it didn't take me long to discover the recommended limit was 800 pixels wide. Also turns out I could shrink mine to 640 wide with no real loss in detail, so I've gone back and done that -- adding hyperlinks to the originals. Enjoy ! -- Jim
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Post by axekicker on Sept 29, 2010 20:30:54 GMT -5
As usual, I'm amazed at your wiring chops (and jealous). I have mini humbuckers on my Hellcat, which I love, like a cross between humbuckers and singles, but without the hum. What kind of minbuckers did you install, GFS, SD? You also mentioned something about a boost switch. I'm interested in how it works. Is it a clean boost? How many db? I heard that Jack White had an MXR Micro amp installed directly into the body of his Gretsch and I've been considering something similar to get a hefty clean boost. If I can take it off the floor and put it into the guitar, then I'm all for it. You seem to be the expert in that regard. Thnx.
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Post by newey on Sept 29, 2010 22:11:25 GMT -5
Not to speak for wolf, but he said "solo switch", implying that it passively bypasses the controls, to give the pup straight to the output. I don't think he has an active stage in there.
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Post by axekicker on Sept 30, 2010 0:37:03 GMT -5
youre correct, it's a solo switch. To me that implied boost, but I guess Im mistaken. Though I'm still curious if it's possible. I'll post the question in the other section. Thnx.
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