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Post by cynical1 on Apr 13, 2010 11:36:11 GMT -5
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Post by wolf on Apr 13, 2010 15:25:01 GMT -5
cynical1I'm guessing you wouldn't want a genuine Les Paul Switch for this correct? (You'd need a chainsaw to chop out that much wood ;D) Anyway the switch you have posted does seem to be a DPDT "center-something" type switch. (It is technically not a triple throw because no new terminals come into effect when it is in the "mid" position). You could use the pictured switch if the center position is "off". Just ignore one side of terminals. I don't know why you seem to have a problem finding this switch. Yes, even Radio Shack™ sells these. EDITED TO ADD: Here are three links for that switch: Stew-Mac GuitarElectronicsRadio Shack
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Post by sumgai on Apr 13, 2010 23:57:07 GMT -5
c1,
Yeah, that'll work. I'm assuming here that you need that longer bushing, right?
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2010 7:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight. So, a DPDT On-Off-On is the same thing as a SP3T that ChrisK specs...provided I just use one side of the switch.
And no, I really don't need the longer bushing in either project. I was more focused on the SP3T Chris detailed then anything.
I've got some coin coming back from Uncle Sam this year...one advantage of making $40,000.00 a year less after the economy tanked...but there are many things to buy before I can actually finish the builds...so I'm trying to buy frugally while the wife is having a weak moment...
I'm trying to limit suppliers to cut freight so if I can keep it to Digi-Key and Best Guitar Parts then life should be good...then God help the neighbors...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by wolf on Apr 14, 2010 14:29:05 GMT -5
cynical1 I went to the digikey website and searched for an SPDT toggle switch and then narrowed it down with filters (type- on/off/on) (non-illuminated) (in stock) and got back 7 pages (161 items). I'd post a link but it seems you can't link to their search results. So, with all that choice, you really don't have to buy a DPDT do you?
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2010 14:57:18 GMT -5
As I said before, I was basing my search off of Chris' spec on the SP3T switch.
As everything I do with this is from an empirical approach, I just went looking for exactly what he detailed out.
He had mentioned a Les Paul switch as a candidate for the mod, but at about twice the price and 3 times the real estate I went looking for options.
If a standard SPDT On-Off-On works then life is good. I just did't want to buy the switch twice...
HTC1
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Post by wolf on Apr 14, 2010 15:53:32 GMT -5
cynical1Heck I sure wouldn't want you to buy the wrong switch but then again, I wouldn't want you to spend extra money for something you really didn't need. (I don't know if there's a huge savings between a DPDT center-off and an SPDT center-off, but if so, why pay more?) I'm sorry if I may have sounded a little too forceful in this discussion but I did have some small part in ChrisK's developing that circuit: click here and it looks as if you had a part in that discussion too.
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Post by newey on Apr 14, 2010 19:35:51 GMT -5
Cyn- The switch you linked to is the version with the PC pins. The same switch is available from NKK with solder lugs, you'd be better off with one of those. Question is whether Digikey carries that one or not. I can't tell, because my search results on Digikey were vastly different than Wolf's- when I filtered the selections to "SP3T", there were no "on-off-on"s to be had. There were, however, "on-on-on"s. Now, wolf searched for "SPDT", and found "on-off-on" switches in huge numbers. And the Radio Shack link above is to a "DPDT" "on-off-on" But I did find there the switch Cyn linked to, which is designated as a SP3T "On-On-On", which, as Chris noted in the linked-to thread, can be used for this mod. But maybe that isn't what you wanted, and, as noted, let's not buy the switch twice. Further mystifying things, the NKK mfr's part number can be decoded, as per their product data sheet, which can be accessed from the Digikey page Cyn linked to. The number (according to Digikey) is "M2024SS1W03-RO". The key digit in that sequence is M202 4, where the "4" is in the 4th spot over from the "M". This digit designates the switch functioning (e.g., "on-off", "on-on-on", etc.) A "5" in that spot indicates an "on-on-on", while a "3" would mean an "on-off-on". There is no "4", however. It's not one of the options for that space. Which implies that someone entering Digikey's product info made a typo in the mfr's part number- and so we don't really have any way of knowing, short of a call to Digikey, what you're actually getting here! There is also a terminology problem- we've got folks calling these "on-off-on" switches as "SP3T", "SPDT", etc. But, "on-on-on" switches seem to be universally designated as "double throw" switches. Skipping ahead here, past a long and quite possibly erroneous explanation, I believe that Digikey (and Chris) are right; that is, an "on-off-on" switch, whether single or double pole, is properly designated as a "3T" switch, while an "on-on-on" switch is properly a "DT" switch. I know, there really isn't much consistency to the way terminology is used on this point. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 14, 2010 21:19:39 GMT -5
Now, with an On-On-On switch, you could get parallel combinations of the two caps. That is, you could get A, B, and A+B for capacitance values. It's impossible in this situation to get .015, .022, and .047 exactly.
The question to ask here is: "How important are these specific values?" Have they been tried in any empirical situation to be sure that they are the exact values you want? Can you find some values that will work just fine in the parallel situation?
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Post by wolf on Apr 15, 2010 0:15:39 GMT -5
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Post by JohnH on Apr 15, 2010 1:30:02 GMT -5
So far as I can see, any three position toggle switch, single or two pole, on-on-on, on-off-on, or Gibson-style on-both on, can be persuaded to provide three different cap values, one in each position. Its just a matter of the values and how the caps are wired. So just get a nice switch and go from there! cheers John
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Post by vegetablejoe on Apr 15, 2010 2:29:58 GMT -5
just a thought... wouldn't replacing your tone pot with a push-pull pot accomplish the same thing without adding a separate toggle switch?
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Post by newey on Apr 15, 2010 4:58:07 GMT -5
VJ-
Welcome back!
You could use a P/P to select either of 2 caps, but you need a center position (whether "on" or "off") to get the combination of both caps.
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 15, 2010 7:28:44 GMT -5
Wow, that generated a flurry of activity...
The part number I linked to was the one I pulled out of the ten pound printed catalog. It was the only switch with a SP3T:On-Off-On designation...in that catalog. Trust me, no one else had this configuration listed in the Digi-Key printed catalog.
I would like to set it up to where the values range from .022, .015 & .047. I understand how the values change when you set the capacitors in series versus parallel, so I want them to run in series.
As far as push-pull switches...well, as a personal preference I just never liked them. I'm more then happy to drill a hole.
Thanks again for all the input. Now I need to follow all your links.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 2, 2010 11:30:02 GMT -5
sorry if i shoulda started a new thread...
I'm curious as to the actual effect of this mod. I achieve woman tone on my strat by turning all the way down on either middle or neck pickup. I dunno, maybe this is not the real way of doing it.
So, I was googling for a switch that would 'turn down' the tone of my middle pup.
Is that what this does? I understand the effect of different caps on a tone knob (at least i think i do: it changes the amount of 'change' on the knob)
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Post by ashcatlt on May 2, 2010 18:11:23 GMT -5
Sort off.
The tone cap helps to set the cutoff frequency of the filter when the variable resistor is turned down close to 0. The "woman tone" is a a little less treble cut than either of the standard cap choices.
In general I think we choose pot value to set the "10 tone" and cap value to set our "0 tone".
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 3, 2010 16:34:25 GMT -5
'variable resistor'...hmmm, ok you've got me thinking now. So, if i wired a switched 250k resistor in series with the tone pot, would it have the same effect as turning a tone pot all the way down?
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Post by ashcatlt on May 3, 2010 17:21:09 GMT -5
I said variable resistor because it's not technically wired as a potentiometer, which is a variable voltage divider. There's only 2 lugs involved.
I can dig where you're going with your idea, unfortunately, it won't work as intended. Adding 250K in series with the tone "pot" will be like turning it UP beyond 10. The deepest treble cut comes when there is no resistance between the hot signal and the cap to ground. To have a "Tone Off" switch, you'd need to short across the variable resistor.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 4, 2010 9:38:10 GMT -5
"To have a "Tone Off" switch, you'd need to short across the variable resistor"
well, that seems easy, just a short accross the two poles of the tone pot?
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 28, 2010 8:46:19 GMT -5
Hmm, i'm confused here... situation:normal. so, when the upper 2 lugs are connected, it looks like signal goes 2 different ways and gets to ground thru the .047cap. and then when the lower 2 are connected, looks like the only way it can get a signal is thru the .022cap before it: To me, it looks like the only position that works right is the neutral position which puts the 2 caps in series? Or did i just have too much fun at the Cherry Poppin' Daddies last night?
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Post by ashcatlt on May 28, 2010 10:55:32 GMT -5
Ummm...
Didn't you just say that it goes through one cap, the other, or both? That's the whe point of the thing!
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 28, 2010 11:11:57 GMT -5
lol, no, i said it looks like it goes thru both capacitors any way you switch it. I thought the point was one or the other or both.
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Post by ashcatlt on May 28, 2010 16:14:56 GMT -5
ah...
Then look again. At frequencies where the cap would provide resistance, the electrons would much rather go through that straight wire. Or, to put it another way, since both ends of the cap are connected to the same place, there's no potential difference across the cap.
Either way, it's shorted and does nothing.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 29, 2010 16:56:11 GMT -5
ah, ok. I see it.
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