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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 6:35:44 GMT -5
Okay, I'm gonna link these two guys together after I get this up, but this is the wiring side of my project... this is actually going to be the easier part of this guitar. After the Dean wiring I recently finished... pics to come... modular wiring concepts are easily understood, since I had to use the modular diagrams on the SD site for a few things... So here is what I'm thinking... - One DPDT on-on-on for each humbucker for series/split/parallel for my intra-pickup controls - one of these will go to a Phase reversal push-pull on what will now be the master volume - 2nd volume tone spot will be used to hold my active electronics. I plan to tuck the on-on-on toggles behind the tone pots toward the jack of the guitar to keep them safe from strumming motion. This is all gonna be simple, but I DO have questions on those tone pots. I think I remember seeing someplace on here someone using a rotary something-way pot and putting on different cap values. I'm thinking it was ChrisK, but I could very easily be wrong, and... well, I don't know how much of his stuff is still here. Is there real value in this? How does it work? Has anyone done it? I'm considering doing some big chicken knobs with a few positions to make tone knob adjustment a more precise task... but I'm leaning on you guys to figure this one out for me, I guess. The rest of the wiring I can do with ease...I hope! I've been getting a good deal of practice lately. And if not this system, I'm willing to explore any other options for the tone pots you guys can throw out there. I'm also looking for anything on the active part of the scheme. I don't want to do a volume boost... that's just boring to me... Here is a link to the rest of the project guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=guitar&thread=4928&page=1
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 22, 2010 7:59:49 GMT -5
...I think I remember seeing someplace on here someone using a rotary something-way pot and putting on different cap values. I'm thinking it was ChrisK, but I could very easily be wrong, and... ...Is there real value in this? How does it work? Has anyone done it? There's been more then a few ideas, and not limited to controlling the tone, floated around here involving rotary switches. What did you want to do with a rotary switch in this application? HTC1
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 8:04:42 GMT -5
I'm not fully sure, I just remembered reading about it someplace a while back, but I was just skimming at the time.
I guess I'm looking for a way to get multiple "tone" settings from one pot without the guesswork.
I'm not doing the one with the volume pot for this guitar... I don't think.
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Post by flateric on Apr 22, 2010 9:18:13 GMT -5
The varitone rotary thing is like what you get on some gretsch guitars (3 different cap values) as well as BB King's Gibson Lucille which has 7 different cap values iirc. So this auto sets the amount of treble cut depending on which capacitor is switched in. I tied it on one home build but didn't really like it - just introduced 3 different shades of muddiness for me! I quite like a bright, sharp tone, but give it a try if you like. Here's a link to the bluehawk varitone which is more of a mid cut thing - I could use one of those on one of my basses. www.blueshawk.info/varitone.htmHere's another link you might find interesting: www.diyguitarmods.com/diyprojects/varitonedeluxemod/index2.php
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 22, 2010 10:10:44 GMT -5
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 10:27:03 GMT -5
That's beautiful, man. The one from the top link is exactly what I had in mind. It can be fully removed it says... I like the sound of that quite a bit, but...
I'm seeing stew-mac having a knob that looks like it'll work, but I'd like to have it pull out and bypass... That might be hard to find, eh? Yeah, googling confirms this.
Suppose I could go with a master tone as well as master volume and just put a two position toggle switch/push-pull in a different spot to bring it into and then kick it back out of the circuit...
I kinda wanna try it... but it's not sounding very practical unless the push-pull is on the same knob... Any ideas?
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 10:42:44 GMT -5
Was talking about flateric's post, not yours, Cynical.
In YOUR post, it's the BOTTOM link I found more useful!
I could have left this up the mystery of the unknown had they been switched! Oh well. Now I have to post something about it... I guess it's one more step to 1K posts, or whenever I get my gold stars back. I miss my four gold stars... these orange ones are seriously ugly.
Oh, but where was I... I got up really early...and just read 7 pages about caps. That's approximately 6 pages too many for one sitting.
Oh, right! I think this can be accomplished more easily and do that two birds one stone thing... This might be the perfect place for that active stuff I was talkin' about adding!
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Post by newey on Apr 22, 2010 14:47:01 GMT -5
Syd-
I've never seen a rotary switch with a push/pull feature, I doubt such a thing exists. But rotaries come in many different types. Get one with one more position than you need for the cap-switching, and use the extra position as a bypass.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 15:24:53 GMT -5
I'd never heard of one either, but the varitone article mentions it... sounds useful. And that's an option, but I hate clutter. I don't like having to wrestle through the controls to get to that sweet spot, because, well... the entire point is to make it easier, right? But yeah, that was the first thing I thought as well, but I think I'm going to explore other options. I think that a 9v battery is going to be my best answer. I just need to decide which. I'm looking at some guitarfetish units... We'll see if that guy will even do business with me after my e-mail about that firewood strat neck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think the next thing to consider would be putting another toggle point on the guitar and using that to bypass the tone... a blower switch, I think it would be called at this point, right? But I think I found my active element for the extra tone pot. store.guitarfetish.com/cstmidbocidr.htmlI like that it has multiple modes of operation, with what even seems to be a passive mode... and for 30 bucks... It's worth a shot for sure. I'm gonna pencil that in for now.
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 22, 2010 19:02:40 GMT -5
The tone cap value is essentially meaningless unless the tone control is nearly all the way down. Once you get that far, as mentioned above, it's really just varying degrees of mud.
We could figure out a way to wire a rotary to act like a pot with multiple detents - basically selecting smaller and smaller resistance values, and progressing down to where the cap actually comes into play - and then maybe a couple positions to change cap values.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 21:01:50 GMT -5
Yeah, That's what I'd been reading from the free woman tone discussions.
The only guitar I generally use with the tone killed it the ESP with the livewires, but that's becauase that tone pot does so little that it's almost impossible to tell where it is without getting handsy and twisting it.
The idea was just to do Something with the tone... something nifty... And this looks like the perfect place to go active, so I'm pretty set on that path now. I would -love- to find a varitone rotary that has push-pull as described in that link flateric left, but it's no big.
Cyn's links were really informative as well. After the Q filter reading I decided on the active system. I'm expecting this guitar to be a lotta fun, and it's just more experience, ya know?
I'm gonna do sound clips with this for sure, since it seems like something that someone might light and it's so easy to A/B (with the passive mode.)
I'm gonna be running to the bank and placing my orders tomorrow, I think.
Thanks for the input, guys. My next issue is how to fix that chip in the paint!
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Post by newey on Apr 22, 2010 22:09:47 GMT -5
Well, there's this old idea, which I'm wanting someone to try, to see if it does what it's supposed to do guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4665You could still have an active set-up, in addition to the passive controls. A rotary switch in place of one of the tone pots for the passive stuff, with a bypass setting, and a p/p on one of the other pots to trigger the active mode. Since this is to be a wedding present, I suppose it would be poor form to have the image of a ball and chain engraved into the pickguard . . . ;D
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 22, 2010 22:48:41 GMT -5
Sorry, Newey. It doesn't have a pickguard. Actually the joke I made was, "well, at least your guitar will have some balls when this is said and done." Okay, I'm willing to try it. It does sound interesting. Did you check out the unit I'm going to be adding? It has five or so modes, one is passive another is active but no augmentation applied... then three "sounds." At least we know what the other two do, right? The description says "I have this on my guitars!" But with all the typos on guitarfetish, he could very well have meant to say "I have this on no guitars!" That was below the belt.. *snickers* My only questions pertain to price and acquisition of parts, and how well will this play with the rest of my setup? Seems like it should be fine to me. This will drop me to one V and one T, but that's my preferred setup anyway... and let's face it, this is a gift, but... it's not really about what he wants, is it? Of course not. He has the rest of his life to not get what he wants... this will be good practice.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 23, 2010 13:02:02 GMT -5
He has the rest of his life to not get what he wants... this will be good practice. [glow=red,2,300]WARNING![/glow] [glow=red,2,300]WARNING![/glow] Humor value has exceeded the laugh quotient! Plus 1 must be issued immediately! [glow=red,2,300]WARNING![/glow]
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Post by sydsbluesky on Apr 24, 2010 13:14:24 GMT -5
Hey, man... I do what I can!
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Post by sydsbluesky1 on Apr 6, 2017 15:13:44 GMT -5
What's 7 years between friends, right? As I look in new light at the prospect of finally wrapping up this project (6 years with no workspace... give a guy a break xD) I realize that all my circa 2010 indecision on the wiring has been resolved for me! Because now Daita, Dave's guitar hero, has a custom guitar line! How scandalously convenient... I have a SD sh 2n, some DiMarzio velvet thing, and a SD JB bridge pup. Getting the single coil DiMarzio routed out and installed is no biggie, but I've never wired a H-S-H config before. I tread not this soil without a guide, however, as that link happens to have a fairly detailed description of the instrument specs. I have some mild confusion around the part of the page where it talks about the controls. Control Master Volume (CTS Custom B500 ) Tone (CTS Custom A500) Rear Direct SW (Phase?)Pickup Select SW (tap-off-on) There's an image provided that shows the three three-position toggles, but this "Rear Direct SW" has me guessing. It's located where I would expect a 3 way toggle or a 5 way blade. Further, I'm not 100% sure the wiring of these three three-position toggles. H-S-H config with three "tap" settings? I haven't been under the hood on anything in a while, so there's undoubtedly some brain rust involved. This image seems to explain things quite thoroughly, though it doesn't seem to want to translate. I do happen to know a banjo playing, Japanese/English translating, music festival hosting, overall mighty fine lad through the family, but I figured I'd let you guys take a look at it first in case it's something exceedingly obvious my brain is simply refusing to comprehend. 1. For the moment I'm willing to assume the Rear Direct means Phase. Does this sound right? 2. Is that middle SC actually a SC or a sneaky HB?
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 6, 2017 19:11:37 GMT -5
Rear Direct might be a blower switch - disconnects the output jack from the volume, tone, and other switching and connects the output jack directly to the Bridge pickup only.
Just a guess.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2017 21:52:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with RT on the "rear direct" switch- my first thought was a blower switch (a/k/a a "solo switch")
Yes, a bit of a mystery. First off, my suspicion would be that the word "tap" is being misused and that coil cuts are what is meant. Notice that the outer coils of the 2 HBs are circled in the diagram and labelled as "a" and "b"? I took that to mean those would be the active coils when in the coil cut position(s). But then, what about the middle pickup?
Three possibilities: First, the middle pickup may be a stacked-coil HB, although the picture doesn't make it look like one. If it has 4 insulated wires, then there's your answer.
Or, maybe the middle pickup is truly a tapped single coil, and the diagram really did mean just what it says, "coil tap". Three insulated wires leading from the middle pickup would be the clue if this is the case. If so, it's also remotely possible that the two HBs have tap-able coils as well, (although the designation of "a" and "b" coils on the diagram then doesn't make any sense.)
Finally, maybe the middle pup is just a regular SC and the "tap" setting doesn't do anything on that pickup.
Whichever it is, a peek inside should tell the tale.
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Post by sydsbluesky1 on Apr 7, 2017 2:37:16 GMT -5
A peek inside would set me back 5300 USD and... well, we've all shipped things from Asia.......................................................
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This long and untimely pause reminds me of the time I ordered that awesome and thoughtful 3rd of May gift for my girlfriend.
Anyway, I've turned a bit more earth on the politely offered up identification letters and numbers of the middle pup, but I can't get any further specs. Seems to be custom shop fodder, and have absolutely no applicable value whatsoever. I haven't a single hint as to the number of coils under the hood. Le Sigh. At least "Tap" and "Cut" seem to be somewhat synonymous in the parlance of our modern guitar vernacular, so that was my guess as well on the "Tap" issue. Doesn't really solve anything, though. More means we three agree to be unsure in unity!
As for Rear Direct, blower could do it.
Actually, that made me think of a thing. Newey, I am going to post a random brain garbage in your stealth strat thread. I'm sure it's years old by now... and hopefully built! But Time is my mistress, and Time does as I please!
When it wants to.
I will keep digging around on the Diata thing, but my mid evening bathroom break was clearly shipped from China.
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2017 6:18:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, not yet! Like several other projects, it's been sitting for about 4 years now. Every time I think I might get some free time to work on it, my real work schedule intrudes.
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