I've been thinking to change a stock Telecaster with the following setup: * a Lace Sensor T150 a bridge * a dually Lace Sensor as neck pickup (very likely Blue/Red or Blue/Burgundy) For the wiring, I would use a standard 3-way Telecaster switch, giving the B, B+N and N combination. As the neck can be considered as two pickups, I was thinking of using an on/on/on swith so I can have all the possible combinations for the neck pickup: the blue, the blue and the red, the red. In combination with the 3-way switch, this would give a total of 7 combinations. Now, finally, my question: would a on/on/on switch do the trick? How many poles does the swith need?
As you can see, I'm not an electrician, so any kind of information on this wiring idea would be very welcome.
phvdv The world of guitar rewiring can get a little confusing. I'm guessing the on/on/on switch to which you refer would be a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT). Please go here and scroll down to DPDT Switch: www.1728.com/guitar.htm Diagram C and Diagram D could both be considered on/on/on. In just about any area except guitar rewiring, DiagramC is what most people think of. (This is the kind of switch Radio Shack sells). Diagram D is usually what would be sold at online guitar parts websites. Anyway, you want this switch to control the neck pikup only? And you want it so that it could choose each single coil and both coils as a humbucker ? The difference in sound between the single coils in the neck pickup would probably be miniscule. Perhaps, you just might want Series/CoilCut/Parallel for the neck pickup. The DPDT Switch (Diagram D) is what you'll need for that.
I'm not looking for series/parallel configuration of the neck pickup combined with the bridge. I consider the setup as having 3 single coil pickups on a Telecaster, two of those pickups are positioned as one right next to the other. I'm not after series-parallel, phase-out of phase configurations, just the 7 possible pickup combinations (always in parallel and in phase). Therefore, when looking at your diagrams (by the way - thanks to your explanations, things got more clearer to me), I would think that, for my purposes, the SPDT center on switch would do the trick. As for the sound, I just want to make something versatile: combining a Lace T150 in the bridge with a Lace Blue in the neck is supposed to provide a Albert Collins kind of sound. If I put another Lace Sensor (red, burgundy, silver, gold) right next to it, it will sound -slightly- different that the T150/Blue combination.
phvdv In my posting, I was not talking about combining the neck pickup with anything but itself.
If I understood your posting correctly, the neck pickup is a humbucker correct? And you want the ability to select either coil of that neck humbucker? I still say the difference in sound between the 2 different coils of the neck humbucker would not be noticeable.
Still if that is what you want - single coil, humbucker (series wired), and then the other single coil, I'd say you would need an SPDT center off switch. (You were close though. You learn quickly, young Jedi).
I have done a lot of homework on Lace Sensors(tm) and the sound of each particular pickup. I have one of each for testing and seven guitars that I have re-done with ALL Lace Sensors(tm). I know that you can have a custom built pickup made to your specs and combine any two regular Sensors(tm) togather. Consider this, try a TN-100 in the neck. I did and it is warmer an richer sounding than any other of the origional Sensors(tm). At the present time I have a Tele(tm) that I recently applied the QTB'sC to and put a T-150 in the bridge and a TN-100 in the neck. with the stock 3 way switch With these 2 new pickups in it, it looks bone stock, but it is a true weapon anyone would want for their very own. It has the raunchy metal sound in the bridge position , a humbucking full rich sound in the mid position and a clear mellow rich and full sound in the neck position. Before you order this pickup, go to your local music store and ask them if they do indeed have a TN-100. A lot of times if you take your instrument in, they will install a pickup for you to try out, so you can see if the sound is right for you. That has been my experience though. I definitely will throw all the praise possible to the Lace (tm) setup I have in my Tele(tm) to the person that came up with the TN-100. It is still a little known secret, and a good investment for anybody and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND them.
"Shoot for the MOON you just might miss and hit the STARS"
I came to the same conclusion that the Lace Sensors are the one for me. I have one strat with Lace Sensors Hot Gold in them, another that had CS Texas Specials then Lace Holy Grail that I'm about to change to Lace Sensors Hot Gold too... Unfortunately I don't have the budget anymore (and maybe the patience also) to do any further testing, but I'm tempted, very tempted: what does a red sounds like, a blue, a silver, a burgundy, is the blue/silver/red n/m/b as good as they say on the website etc etc etc ...
wolf, SPDT center off ? Maybe I learn quickly but I'm a little stubborn too... center should be off? Are you sure - how am I going to get the two coils together then? I'm not sure that I get it
Looking at www.agi-lace.com/wiring/pdf/9.pdf, I see that the schema at the bottom is exactly what I need; there is just one piece of information missing: what kind of a switch is that? It's a DPDT, but what about the center: on or off??
phvdv That diagram, besides not showing what kind of switch it is, also fails to show where the minus connection of the bottom pickup goes. Or am I missing something? My diagram will work by the way. Let's see what others say.
I agree your diagram will work, but I just thought i'd remind you of the discussion at the "Humbucker sound without humbuckers" thread. and the fact that a shorted coil has a dampening effect on the other coil. I would expect the effect to be even more pronounced with a mini HB or worse a stacked HB.
Just different not necessarily better.
"Look dear I'm spending money on guitars or women ... Your choice"
RJB Yes, I know that the "shorted" coil does have a dampening effect on the active coil. (I know someone even ran a test on this.) Somehow I feel that the effect is ...... tolerable?
Anyway, I still say the diagram at: www.agi-lace.com/wiring/pdf/9.pdf is wrong. The top coil has one pickup wire always going to ground which is fine. How does the black & white wire (also negative) in the bottom coil ever get connected to ground? Is the upper left terminal of the switch supposed to be the ground terminal? Do you know if that circuit does not shunt a coil to ground (just as mine does)?
Wolf, I just got a quick chance to look at the diagram. Yeah something isn't right, not sure what would be correct just yet. I'm thinking there is a ground missing from the switch and the top "hot" should go from top left to bottom right instead of across BL to BR. But that's still not it. If I get a chance later I'll think about it.
"Look dear I'm spending money on guitars or women ... Your choice"
There are wiring diagrams sent with each particular Lace Sensor(tm). The only drawback is the diagrams are of bone stock installations.
To answer your question about the different sounds attainable from the many different color models...........A RED is the most power driven of the whole line of single Lace Sensors(tm). Each one however is different. I have several and the range goes from15.19K-16.01K. The 16.01K RED and 15.87K RED I have in the bridge position of two of my Strat's(tm) is anything but a weak sound. Full tilt power at it's best, but still crystal clear and almost infinite sustain at high gain. Absolutely the best sounding pickup I have ever used for the crisp shredding leads and high harmonic rhythm parts of the music I play. ;D
A BLUE 13.2K-13.4K on the other hand is generally installed at the neck and allow's for a warm rich MINIBUCKER tone with a standard Strat(tm) quack, and I do mean QUACK. You will definitely notice the difference immediately. Again the clarity is astounding and your need for effects processing might be something to re-think. I am amazed at the chimey, ding-dong.....oop's..... sound from the higher registers and the almost high-end acoustic sound in the lower registers with a clean amp setting. With a semi-dirty amp setting you still get clarity, but the growl starts to show it's teeth, and semi-raunchy BLUES mood fills your brain and makes your fingers contort into 7th and 9th chords and the spirit of SRV starts to guide you through a new realm. With a full out dirty amp setting, clarity and richness are still there. The attack is a full sound with a bite and crunch to match.
A SILVER is probably the best Lace Sensor(tm) to install in the central position because you are still in the middle of the sound spectrum and there is more of a true crisp sparkle ting-tang sound and attack as opposed to a thicker sound of dum-dum-dum attack of a standard Strat(tm) pickup. When a SILVER is mixed with a RED or a BLUE, it lightens up the overall power and adds a richness to the overall tone of the higher output pickups.
A BURGUNDY is around 9.3K-9.7K and is a really really thick and dull sort of clear if you can imagine that. I am still experimenting with this color model. I am going to mix it with a HOT GOLD DUALLY, 26.6K (13.13K/13.47K) split in the bridge. By using this combination of HOT GOLD DUALLY and BURGUNDY at 9.4K in the central position, I am hoping for a mid point of thick warmth and high output clarity with a semi-mellow quack.
After reading this, I hope you have gotten a better idea on the BLUE-SILVER-RED combination. I feel that this combination of Lace Sensors(tm) is ALL it is cracked up to be. You can achieve a countless array of tonal quality as well as really hear the true resonance of your guitar, especially after applying the QTB modification. I have also installed a TBX tone pot for master tone in all 5 positions. This pot really gives you more of a tonal range and a mix can be heard as opposed to single pots used for tone. Play around a little with the Capacitor and Resistor to get the true sound you are looking for. I am using .022 orange drop Capacitor and a .70K-.85K Resistor. I have found that this allows for just the right range in the attack and roll-off of tone. I hope this helps you out. I will post the results of my upcoming experiment in about a week, or as soon as the wife allows funds to finish. Gotta stay on the right side of life, as well as have my LABORATORY with a BODY ON THE SLAB.
"Shoot for the MOON you just might miss and hit the STARS"
The bottom drawing was drawn with the top & bottom terminals "swapped" so the "wires" weren't crossing all over the place. The only problem with this is when the switch is "down" the top coil is active. When the switch is "up" the bottom coil is active. This is counter-intuitive so when you do the actual wiring, "swap" the wiring accordingly.
thanks for that schema - it'll make my life a little easier. The switch you show is the same one as shown in Diagram D on your webpage. What would be the chances of finding such a switch at Radioshack?
phvdv I'm glad the redrawn schematic helped. As far as finding that type of DPDT switch at Radio Shack, your chances would be zero. They are strictly a "Diagram C" switch store. You'd be better off ordering it online from one of the many suppliers mentioned in this thread: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1114373664 CheshireCat said he'd update his own thread but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.
New to the forum, but have been building and designing guitar electronics for a few years. Unless I have missed something, there is a problem in the redrawn schematic above. Regarding the DPDT switch (which is a "Type 1 on-on-on" based on the illustration), in the center position, the Orange/Black wire (South Coil Start on a Lace Dually) soldered to Pole 5 of the DPDT, the South Coil is dead, and only the North Coil would be active (same as if switch was thrown upward). The South Coil would only activate when the switch is thrown "down".
I am currently loading a Emerald/Purple and a Red/Silver into an '84 Robin "Strat" body. It's getting a North/Series/South DPDT switch (for each pickup), a 3 position pickup selector (SPDT), a phase switch (DPST), 2 Volumes. 2 tones (a stacked concentric), a momentary (SPST) OFF button that kills the signal entirely (very cool effect), with shielded cavities and isolated signal/shield grounds with 400v capacitor shock protection using the "Guitar Nuts" method. I would be happy to share if you like.
You've resurrected one of the oldest threads around the place to correct an error, so good find! Wolf is one of the veterans around here but we don't hear from him much lately.
The problem isn't with the diagram itself. The problem is with wolf's description of the inner workings of the DPDT On-On-On switch. Here are 3 possibilities for how the center "on" position might be internally connected, which I've labelled as "A", "B" and "C".
Wolf claims, per his diagram, that the switch he is using is version "B". But, I've never seen one or heard of one that works like "B". Every one I've ever encountered works like "A". Notice that if the switch used is actually like "A", then the center position in his diagram works just fine.
So, I think wolf just accidentally swapped the red lines around in his diagram. But notice a few things here. First, it may also be a matter of whether the connections are being illustrated as if looking at the bottom, the way we would be looking at the switch when soldering to it, or as if looking down from the pickguard, through the switch body. If we're looking from the top down, then "B" becomes "A". Also note that "A" and "B" are each rotationally symmetric, meaning that turning "A" 180° yields "A" again, and the same with "B". Yet, "A" is not the same as "B".
Again, as far as I am aware there is no type "B". wolf also references the type shown above as "C"(which he likewise has as "Type C" in the illustrations on his website, which is the reference he makes). There is a separate thread around somewhere where wolf was challenged to link to any DPDT switch configured like "C" as opposed to like "A" above. As I recall, wolf was unable to locate any such switch, at least in any switch that might get incorporated into a guitar.