Poop vs Soop Buckers

[ijustwannastrat]

I was thinking about wiring my two brand new humbuckers out of phase, keeping them parallel like normal.

But since they lose volume when they are out of phase, I was thinking putting them in series would increase the volume.

My question is, if I wired these two humbuckers in a SooP fashion, would the middle position be approximately the same volume as position one and three?

No matter which of the two I choose, I'm going to post a schematic, and HOPEFULLY some sound clips.

[newey]

Wanna-

Well, as a certified nut, you could add a series/parallel switch for both SooP as well as PooP.

I was thinking putting them in series would increase the volume.

Likely. Whether 2 series HBs may be too much in phase is a matter of debate as well.

if I wired these two humbuckers in a SooP fashion, would the middle position be approximately the same volume as position one and three?

Hard to say without some testing.

[ijustwannastrat]

Well, I'm working with 2 holes for pots, and a slot for a blade switch.

I will be using 1 concentric pot, so I COULD have a push-pull.....

[wolf]

Guess I should reply to this since I rewire a lot of double humbucker guitars.
I don't think having the two pickups permanently out of phase in the middle position is a good idea. The drop in volume would be considerable compared to either pickup on its own.

[JohnH]

I have an LP that has those options, so I might put up a quick sound demo of some two-pup pip sip with poop soop!

J

[Yew]

You also have to remember that the best out of phase sounds come when the pickups have similar levels, this didnt work for me personally, as I like to use the Bridge pup for rhythm work, then have a boost in the neck for solos to get claptons' 'woman tone'

Yew

[JohnH]

Aug 16, 2010 1:47:22 GMT -5 JohnH said:

I have an LP that has those options, so I might put up a quick sound demo of some two-pup pip sip with poop soop!

J

Well that was fun, here it is:

Poop Soop Shuffle

This is the LP, using the full humbuckerer settings of each pup, with the pickups combined as follows:

start Neck
11sec Bridge
17sec Neck + Bridge parallel
23sec Neck + Bridge POOP
31sec Neck x Bridge SOOP
38sec Neck x Bridge

So, the levels are not so different, but POOP is least and series-in-phase is most. I was also quite surprised by the wah kind of sound on SOOP

THeres also a heap more sounds by adjusting relative levels when out of phase, and also combining with the single coil settings that I have.

HTH
John

[ijustwannastrat]

JohnH, sometimes I forget why you're amazing. And it's times like this, when you give the best information, that I remember.

As for those sounds, they all seem to have their place. I can see why Jimmy Page uses Jimmy Page wiring....

As for the ooP volume drop, I was worried that it would be more dramatic. If I was truely worried about it, I could kick my amp's boost on.

I like
Neck + Bridge POOP
Neck x Bridge SOOP
Neck x Bridge


Not so much
Neck + Bridge


To get mildly off topic, does it make a difference in series wiring which pickup is first? aka BxN vs NxB???

[JohnH]

well thanks indeed...
and there's no difference, NxB = BxN
J

[ashcatlt]

Aug 16, 2010 15:36:54 GMT -5 JohnH said:

well thanks indeed...
and there's no difference, NxB = BxN
J

...unless one of the pickups is one of those stoopid single conductor + shield wired things. For best noise specs, you'd want the shield braid connected to the ground side, which means that pickup has to be on the "bottom" of the series stack. This also impacts phase switching.

[ijustwannastrat]

What if both puppies are stupid single conductor+shielded braid thingys? Is series wiring looking bad?

[newey]

Is series wiring looking bad?

Well, it can be done, and it'll work. But as Ash notes above, noise may be an issue, since at least one of the braids is lifted from ground.

Also, as wolf noted elsewhere, if the pups are covered, the shield normally grounds the cover. Using the braid for a series chain results in one of the covers being ungrounded as well, giving noise when touched by hand or by string. This isn't an issue with uncovered HBs, but if it's an epoxy brick underneath, you're pretty much stuck with the covers.

[wolf]

newey
Also, as wolf noted elsewhere, if the pups are covered, the shield normally grounds the cover. Using the braid for a series chain results in one of the covers being ungrounded as well, giving noise when touched by hand or by string. This isn't an issue with uncovered HBs, but if it's an epoxy brick underneath, you're pretty much stuck with the covers.

Well I guess you remember my occasional remarks I sometimes make about the original chrome-covered monstrosities that were installed on my 1980 SG Standard.
I'd like to elaborate further on another "epoxy brick" disadvantage which you mentioned. If you have those in series or out of phase, it's more than just hum or noise when a string touches the pickup. It's a dead short.

John H - that's a very good demonstration of the tone settings on a rewired Les Paul. +1
By the way, what did you use to record that?
Or to use some 21st century "buzzwords" - what methodology was implemented that enabled you to achieve a real-time guitar-computer interface?

[JohnH]

Aug 17, 2010 1:28:02 GMT -5 wolf said:

By the way, what did you use to record that?
Or to use some 21st century "buzzwords" - what methodology was implemented that enabled you to achieve a real-time guitar-computer interface?

Simple really. The guitar was plugged into a clean no-gain buffer, then into the line input of a standrad Soundblaster PC soundcard. The recording was done using Audacity, which is free.

In this case, the buffer was one of my JFET buffer cables, but any non-true-bypass stompbox works fine too.

I got slightly tricky, in order to get a multi-tone recording without apparent pauses to flick switches. Each sound setting was a seperate take, played over a click track to keep in time, then mixed down to a single track. I kept levels constant as they came out of the guitar, since that was the main point of this thread.
cheers
John