Help with another custom wiring..

[mclord]

Hello again

I made this thread because I can no longer proceed with the last Super 15 wiring. So I thought of something more simpler.

In a brief that what I want:


I have worked out the first part - assuming no P/P -. What changes I should do to make it P/P for split coils like illustrated above in the Switching system .??

I know there is a problem in the middle position after splitting, as I have no clue if it is possible to have it Hum-cancelling.. But If it is not possible, no problem.


Here is quick scheme of what I think it would make the the first part work without P/P . I am just learning, so ofc, that whole thing could be wrong... But I would like someone to correct for me



Thanks a lot

[JohnH]

hello - you are on the right lines. I see that positions 2 and 4 are not affected by the pp switch. Is that what you want? If not, you could of course, have the Hbs only split in the second mode. The coil split switch you need is on the SD diagram that was posted recently:

www.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/HSH_1v_1t_5w_pushpull.jpg

For humcancelling in position 3, it can be done, but not together with humcancelling in 2 and 4 as well, using the coils that you indicate. Its because, in 2 and 4, both the neck and bridge coils are different polarity to the middele, and so the same as each other. So when they get combined in position 3, they are not humcancelling.

[mclord]

Sept 23, 2010 15:35:15 GMT -5 JohnH said:

hello - you are on the right lines. I see that positions 2 and 4 are not affected by the pp switch. Is that what you want? If not, you could of course, have the Hbs only split in the second mode.

I think that is already included in my diagram when the P/P is up, Isn't that what I do but I don't know how to wire them. So I would like that you can tell me how to wire the p/p with the switch to achieve these results. Well I see I can not have any other combination in Pos2 or 4, either parallel or series but nothing more. I don't think the P/P could affect them in anyway in the Split coil mode or ....

Sept 23, 2010 15:35:15 GMT -5 JohnH said:

The coil split switch you need is on the SD diagram that was posted recently:

www.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/HSH_1v_1t_5w_pushpull.jpg

You know that schematics is for the normal H S H with a middle in the Pos3, and also connects 2 and 4 in series not in parallel..

So It applies a little..

Sept 23, 2010 15:35:15 GMT -5 JohnH said:

For humcancelling in position 3, it can be done, but not together with humcancelling in 2 and 4 as well, using the coils that you indicate. Its because, in 2 and 4, both the neck and bridge coils are different polarity to the middele, and so the same as each other. So when they get combined in position 3, they are not humcancelling.

Yea, I noticed that, however; it would be better to have hum-cancelling in both 2 and 4 instead of 3. I won't be using it anyway when P/P is up, but definitely when it is down.. so getting Les Paul configuration. Also I found that they will be in phase so some humming is not a problem opposing to having a nasal thin sound from out of phase combination.

[mclord]

OK.. I have worked on it and I came up with this scheme... so any
mistakes ??


EDIT: the black circle is a washer to solder all ground wires on, instead of wiring all that mess to the back of the pot, because it heats too quickly.

[JohnH]

Hi mclord

First, I’ve got to say that I am just delighted to see you take that on and work it out. There’s so much more to be gained by working out a design and understanding it yourself. +1 for that.

Your diagram looks to be just about right. I think you have the switching worked out to do what you want. I see you have kept the polarities and wire colours for each coil as before, so all that testing to work them out is still there.

I think the main comment is related to which coils get cut in the single coil positions. The diagram is currently matches the usual Dimarzio wiring, in which each humbucker is connected:

Hot---red wire---North coil—black wire—white wire—South coil—green wire--Ground

When you pull the p/p switch. or go to positions 2 and 4, the black & white wires get grounded. That means the south coil is bypassed and what you hear is the north coil. As laid out, this is the outer coil, whereas what you want is the inner (south) coil.

The solution is to wire them like this:

Hot---White wire---South coil—green wire—red wire—North coil—black wire—Ground
This swaps the position of the two coils in the series chain between hot and ground, but does not affect the sound or phasing. Now, when the centre wires (red/green) are grounded, you bypass the north coil and hear the south coil.

To do this on the diagram, leave the pickups and coils positioned as they are, with the same colours coming out of each coil, but move the connections to the 5-way switch, by swapping red with white, and green with black

With that, I think your diagram will be right, but you can make a small simplification to the p/p switch wiring. Currently, you have separate green wires from the switch middle lugs to your ground point. One wire is enough, and just join the two centre lugs at the switch.

Nice!

John

[mclord]

Thanks a lot John

I have learned so much during my stay at the forums and a lot from the diagrams you have designed

Anyway, I have edited it with the suggestions you have mentioned above and finally it should be like this..



Hope no more problems ?

EDIT: Does the sound or tone differ if south single coil or north single coil is selected ?. They are of the same humbucker or no 2 coils are identical and personally which one do you prefer better if there is a change ?

[JohnH]

OK, that seems all good.

I think whether north and south coils sound different depends on the pickup. At the bridge position, the inner coil, being further down the string is less trebly than the outer coil, and I try to arrnge things so that its the inner coil that I cut to. At the neck, on my guitars where the two coils are similar, I dont hear any difference, but if its a covered pickup, as on my LP, I cut to the adjustable coil.

John

[mclord]

Ahh, I understand.. Thanks a lot

[mclord]

Hey JohnH..


Everything is connected as the last above diagram.. when you suggested I should swap the wires..

Well the problem is the outer coils are now the one which is working in both Pos 2 and 4.. I mean when I tap on the pickups, I hear the North Coils not the South coils as I needed.. Are you sure of what you have told me I guess I was doing it right at the first

What I hear:

P/P is down:

1. No + Ni
2. No + M << Problem is here
3. No + Ni + Bi + Bo
4. Bo + M << Problem is here
5. Bo + Bi

P/P is up:

1. No << Problem here
2. No + M << Problem here
3. No + Bo << Problem here
4. Bo + M << Problem here
5. Bo << Problem here

[newey]

McLord:

You have 2 problems here, one in the designation of which coil is the N and which is the S:

When you pull the p/p switch. or go to positions 2 and 4, the black & white wires get grounded. That means the south coil is bypassed and what you hear is the north coil. As laid out, this is the outer coil, whereas what you want is the inner (south) coil.

I have a feeling this went astray at that point, and that your original designation of N and S was correct.

You have a further problem in that the p/p pot isn't doing what it's supposed to do. Look at the lower left-hand pole of the superswitch; this is where you are making the "series link" between the HBs at positions 2 and 4, respectively. See the green wire you have connected to the common on the LL pole? It goes to your grounding point, meaning that at positions 2 and 4, you are shorting the one coil through the superswitch, and your p/p is doing nothing in those positions.

The fix is, remove the green wire from the common on the LL pole entirely. Delete both blue wires that run from pos. 2 and 4 of the LL pole to the p/p switch. Run a single blue wire from the LL pole common (where you took the green wire off) to either of the bottom lugs of the p/p switch (you only need the one side of the p/p).

I'm sorry, someone (i.e., me . . .) should have caught that error in your diagram. JohnH signed off on it, and I blithely went along without double-checking.

EDIT: You could also just leave the blue wires alone, and just disconnect the green wire. My suggestion to use the common instead just eliminates some wires and simplifies things a bit.

[mclord]

I have a feeling this went astray at that point, and that your original designation of N and S was correct.

Yea I think

You have a further problem in that the p/p pot isn't doing what it's supposed to do. Look at the lower left-hand pole of the superswitch; this is where you are making the "series link" between the HBs at positions 2 and 4, respectively. See the green wire you have connected to the common on the LL pole? It goes to your grounding point, meaning that at positions 2 and 4, you are shorting the one coil through the superswitch, and your p/p is doing nothing in those positions.

First of All, it is a parallel link not series.
Secondly, I see that these 2 positions are perfect except for the coils of the humbucker. I need the inner instead of the outer coils.

The fix is, remove the green wire from the common on the LL pole entirely. Delete both blue wires that run from pos. 2 and 4 of the LL pole to the p/p switch. Run a single blue wire from the LL pole common (where you took the green wire off) to either of the bottom lugs of the p/p switch (you only need the one side of the p/p).

I'm sorry, someone (i.e., me . . .) should have caught that error in your diagram. JohnH signed off on it, and I blithely went along without double-checking.

EDIT: You could also just leave the blue wires alone, and just disconnect the green wire. My suggestion to use the common instead just eliminates some wires and simplifies things a bit.

I think .... I do not think there is a problem really here.. All I see that the problem lies between the North and South Coils selected.

As soon as I swap the wires again, it should be like that

P/P is down:

1. No + Ni
2. Ni + M
3. No + Ni + Bi + Bo
4. Bi + M
5. Bo + Bi

P/P is up:

1. Ni
2. Ni + M
3. Ni + Bi
4. Bi + M
5. Bi

which applies to what I exactly want !

[JohnH]

hmm - well, i still think the last diagram is correct! - but it could be that the wire colours and polarities are not as expected, though we tried to get those worked out for the previous design. But, based on the results tested, I agree that if you reverse the wire swaps and go back to the previous pickup wire connections at reply 3, then it should work

[mclord]

I guess it worked.. but it seems the volume P/P is dead.. I can only hear when it is on the extreme end ( maximum volume ) .. All in the middle settings are noisy and I can not listen to the guitar signal...What should I do ?

EVEN om the maximum overdrive, I hear a completely clean sound and the tuner can not detect the signal ! It was detecting it before I swap the wires...

Is there any error that may make the volume act like this ?

[mclord]

Fixed.. the above problem.. Everything is fine now.
But anyway to decrease the hum in both pos 1 and 5 when P/P is up . .single coils mode ?

[newey]

Secondly, I see that these 2 positions are perfect except for the coils of the humbucker.

Ok, I had to go back to look and see that pos. 2 and 4 are supposed to be the same regardless of the p/p.

First of All, it is a parallel link not series.

I was referring to the individual coils of the HBs, which are connected in series. Your inter-pickup combinations are in parallel.

[JohnH]

Oct 7, 2010 19:11:48 GMT -5 mclord said:

Fixed.. the above problem.. Everything is fine now.
But anyway to decrease the hum in both pos 1 and 5 when P/P is up . .single coils mode ?

OK, that sounds good - so was that with the coil connections per your first version?.

If you are getting the right coils now, and the single-coil modes are sounding cleanly, then I think you may have to accept the normal hum. If you want to use them at high gain, a noise gate might help.

Anyway, seems like a good result - and i think you should have a good and useful scheme there.

cheers

john

[mclord]

No problem

The whole idea is when I am on humbucker mode -p/p is down- . The guitar is silent . As soon as pull the p/p up, there is a background noise. So i think that is normal. And yea, my amp noise gate eliminated it..

Just need to know why the problem I faced happened.. What error in the connections that can make pickup sound clean in an INSANE amp settings and just lot of noise in the middle fom (1 to 9) and clean in INSANE on 10.. luckily, I opened the cavity moved the wires and everything was back to normal.. But I would like to know what may cause this !!

[JohnH]

Oct 7, 2010 19:47:21 GMT -5 mclord said:

What error in the connections that can make pickup sound clean in an INSANE amp settings and just lot of noise in the middle fom (1 to 9) and clean in INSANE on 10.. luckily, I opened the cavity moved the wires and everything was back to normal.. But I would like to know what may cause this !!

Sometimes when coils are connected at one end, but not the other, or maybe one goes to hot, another to ground. but they dont meet, there is enough coupling between them magnetically or capacitively, to send a small signal even though there is no complete circuit. It would suggest either that the coil wires/colours are not as expected, or just a problem in the switch wiring that got fixed when it was redone.

John

[mclord]

Thanks a lot for the clarification.. Everything is working perfectly now.

Many thanks to John and Newey