wiring gurus lend me your strength! ...please?

[frobro808]

good evening men and women of this forum,
i am new here and this is my first post.

i have been spelunking the seymour duncan site for a few months now and everyones too busy trying to get their own opinions out or working on their own projects. they have wiring diagrams for for everything but mine. i was sent these two:
- www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2ts_1v_1t
- www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2ts_2v_phsp
that are similar but i dont know how to convert it to what i need.

my axe is a 2005-06 jackson dinky. it has emg hzs, 3way switch with a 1v1t configuration. i have recently decided to modify my guitar via p-rails, triple shots, and 2 500k p/p's. i was hoping to achieve extreme tonal versatility. the triple shots would work their magic and the p/p pots would be for series/parallel switching and phase switching between the pickups.



this i my first project and i am about to operate on my baby....
wisemen of this forum, i beg of your assistance.

[frobro808]

duh....
what i'm trying to ask is can anyone draw up the proper diagram or link me to the one i need? im lost and tried to research the best i could but cant figure this out.
-thanks in advance

[JohnH]

Hello FroBro, and welcome to GN2

I have not used P-rails, nor triple shots, but they both seem like really good gadgets. It would seem at first pass that the second diagram that you linked could be used, you just connect your P-rail into the triple-shot, as if it was a normal humbicker. Is the issue that the diagram provides two volume controls when what you want is a volume and a tone control instead? Or are there other issues at hand?

This is the right place, we can draw that. I can offer a rough sketch version that should suffice.

John

[frobro808]

thanks for the fast response good sir!

yes, the diagram has 2 volumes when i want one vol and one tone. i was hoping to have the p/p switch on the volume knob to have the 2 pups in parallel when down and series when up. the tone to do the phase switching. that one seemed to like the phase on the volume knob or the neck-side pot.

[newey]

FroBro-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz 2!

While I can't do a diagram for you at the moment, you have all the information you need between the 2 diagrams you linked to. What you need to do is sort of "morph" the 2 together.

Look at the diagram that has the 1 V and 1 T set-up like you want. Notice that the pickups (via the triple shots) are wired to the pickup switch first, then the center lug of the switch goes to the Vol pot, then to the tone pot. (i.e., selector switch comes first)

On the 2 Vol diagram, see how the pickups (again, through the triple shots first) are wired first to the push/pull switches, then to the volume controls, then each individual Vol is wired to the pickup switch? (i.e., selector switch comes last.)

This is the difference between wiring a Master V and T versus individual Vols. You'll be doing yours like the first one as far as the Vol and tone control are concerned. Think of the V and T as a module, wired between the switch and the output jack.

Now, however, you want to add the push/pulls for the parallel/series and OOP. Diagram 2 gives you the wiring of each of those switches- but instead of wiring the output of those p/ps to the volume controls, you're going to wire the output of the p/ps to the pickup selector switch as in diagram 1. Then, your V and T module connects off the switch, again, as shown in diagram #1.

So, what you'll have is:

1) Each HB wired to its triple shot.

2) Neck HB's triple shot wired to the phase switch (or the bridge, doesn't matter which pickup you switch the phase on).

3) Bridge HB wired to series/parallel p/p switch as shown, output from neck phase switch to the series/parallel switch as shown.

4) Series/parallel switch outputs go to the selector switch r and L lugs.

5) Center lug of the selector switch goes to your V and T module.

Try drawing your own diagram along those lines, and we'll tell you if you're on the right track (the "learn by doing" approach ).

Note that the wiring of the p/ps is completely independent of the Vol on Tone controls (since the selector switch will be between the 2 modules). This means you can put the phase switch on whichever control you want. You can also put either control in either hole on the guitar, assuming you make the wires long enough to reach.

[frobro808]

thanks johnh and newey!
i'll give it a shot and see if i got it!
im also a complete newbie to soldering so that doesnt help either:/ but theres always (an expensive) a techie i can send my jacked up guitar to if i fail miserably right?

[JohnH]

I definately encourage having a go at working this stuff out, but I think the SD diagram may not be the best basis for it. With the 2nd diagram, to go to series mode, the toggle switch also has to be in a particular position or else no sound.

I offered a sketch, so here it is, which turned into a drawing. The switches are on the pots as wished for, and when the series/parallel switch is pulled, it will override the main toggle, which is better I think. Bare wires are shown dashed, and I have also added treble bleed resistor and capacitor to preserve tone at low volume:



cheers

John

[frobro808]

holy s#!t!!! its definitely not what i had going on paper hahaha
plus the treble bleed mod is awesome! i was going to ask how to do that afterwards but why the hack not now? thank you very very much!

one last question, what do you mean by pulling the s/p switch overrides the main toggle switch?

[frobro808]

nvm!!! i get it!
it means that even if its on bridge, middle, or neck it'll put the two pups in series as though it were this awesome (hopefully) fat boost for solos and stuff!
...right?

[JohnH]

yup - thats right. I hope you like it. It should be a great axe

John

[newey]

it means that even if its on bridge, middle, or neck it'll put the two pups in series as though it were this awesome (hopefully) fat boost for solos and stuff!
...right?

Right. The p/p in the down position gives N / N+Br / Br, the std parallel configuration in the middle position. Pulling the p/p gives you N X Br regardless of the position of the 3-way.

The way it was on the SD diagram, the toggle switch has to be in the middle position for the series switch to work, giving you the potential for dead positions if the toggle is to the right or left.

[frobro808]

sweeeeet i'll let you know how it goes!!! wish me luck!

[frobro808]

Happy New Years GN2!
sorry for the absence was busy with work
anyways i tested out the new guitar setup here and naturally it being my first rewiring project, i failed... looked at everything and as suspected that huge cluster of grounds on the volume pot was to blame. is there an easier/ tidier way to do this? or should i just get it done professionally?
thanks guys!
-frobro808

[newey]

Before you go running to a tech, let's see if we can work this out. First of all, when you said it "failed", are you getting any output whatsoever?

And, how do you know the cluster of grounds was/is to blame? There are other ways of grounding, but let's be sure we've identified the problem first.

Some well-focused pictures may help a diagnosis. You will need to have a multimeter available for any serious trouble shooting.

[frobro808]

okay its at my friends house so i'll get some pics up as soon as i get over there again

[frobro808]

AHA! WE FOUND IT! AND IT IS FIXED!
we had wired everything right except the input jack...
prolly the single most important part... fml
but now everything works and sounds awesome!!!
i think i am going to do that flipping-the-bridge pickup mod though. the bridge rail doesn't sound as spanky as i'd like other than that it sounds great!

[frobro808]

So I went back and physically flipped both pickups with the triple shot switches on the bottom...
It looks a he'll of a lot cooler AND sounds waaaaaaay better too!

[asmith]

Can we see some pics pretty please?

[frobro808]

i would love to! just need to get a good enough cem to get the all-black guitar and the rest of the rig

[frobro808]

it's been almost a year and a half since you fine gentlemen gave me the courage to tear into my perfectly-normal-on-the-verge-of-selling black Jackson DXMG Dinky and transform it into a fully personalized frobro808-approved axe of destruction. (pause to take a breath).

i got bored and laid out all of my combinations and added a picture of the love of my life (don't tell the GF i said that) for your viewing pleasure
so without further a due...


Chocolate Pickup Combinations 
as of May 13, 2012

Bridge pickup:
-currently Lace Sensor Dually
   (red outer & silver inner)

1=     local series  
         >>===(       )(><)
2=   local parallel
          >>===(      )(<>)
3=  outer single-coil
          >>===(      )(<<)
4=   inner single-coil  
          >>===(      )(>>)

Neck pickup:
-currently Seymour Duncan P-Rail
  (rail outer & p-90 inner)

5=   local series  
          >>===(><)(      )
6=   local parallel
          >>===(<>)(      )
7=    outer single 
          >>===(>>)(      )
8=    inner single-coil
          >>===(<<)(      )

System parallel (p*\/) AND series (S*/\) IN-PHASE (#\/):
' * '= master volume push/pull pot w/ treble bleed 
' # '= master tone push/pull pot w/ 0.01 MFD paper cap. circa 1952

9/10= both local series 
               >>===(><)(><)
11/12= both local parallel
               >>===(<>)(<>)
13/14=bridge outer & neck local series
               >>===(><)(<<)
15/16=bridge inner & neck local series
               >>===(><)(>>)
17/18=bridge local parallel & neck local series
               >>===(><)(<>)
19/20=bridge local series & neck outer 
               >>===(>>)(><)
21/22=bridge local series & neck inner 
               >>===(<<)(><)
23/24=bridge local series & neck local parallel
               >>===(<>)(><) 
25/26=bridge outer & neck local parallel
               >>===(<>)(<<)
27/28=bridge inner & neck local parallel
               >>===(<>)(>>)
29/30=bridge local parallel & neck outer
               >>===(>>)(<>)
31/32=bridge local parallel & neck inner
               >>===(<<)(<>)

33~64 all same as above positions Out of Phase (#/\)


a total of 64 combinations!!!!!
www.flickr.com/photos/78434994@N07/7187886478/

this is pretty much the best i could do on my ipad. i apologize for the cruddy photo but hopefully you could get the gist of it;)

[newey]

frobro-

Glad that the mods worked out to your liking. But the link to the facebook photo doesn't work, so we still have yet to see your love . . .

[frobro808]

try now i signed up just for you my friend;)

[newey]

"Da best kine brew" indeed!