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Post by simes on Dec 15, 2010 8:38:31 GMT -5
Hello. I recently became aware of a device called a Q-Filter sold by Bill Lawrence. This consists of an inductor with a resistor and a cap, usually connected to the tone pot and activated using a push-pull. His Wilde Pickups website is not particularly informative, and it seems that nobody is 100% clear on what it actually does, sound-wise, even those who use it. The best I could find was at the following link: guitarsbyfender.yuku.com/topic/2992/t/Q-filter-What-does-it-do-exactly.html?page=2I’d ask at the above forum, but I’m not sure how impartial they’d be (or indeed whether or not they’d actually clear anything up for me or just continue to confuse me), so: Has anyone had any experience with this or a similar product? From what I can gather, the net effect of using the filter without the resistor and cap would be to progressively “cool” the pickup, losing mids and bass as it goes, while using it with resistor and cap would do the same but retain more bass, which would presumably take an HB through SC-ish territory to something like a Strat quack. Does this sound feasible from a purely technical point of view, given the nature of the components? If I’m not barking entirely up the wrong tree, the big disadvantage of the above set-up would seem to be that the minute you engage the filter, you lose the ability to roll off the treble, i.e. the original function of the tone pot, which could be a problem. Cheers, Simes
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Post by newey on Dec 15, 2010 14:12:43 GMT -5
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Post by jcgss77 on Dec 15, 2010 20:05:47 GMT -5
newey, did you ever implement any of those coils into a guitar?
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Post by 4real on Dec 15, 2010 20:05:58 GMT -5
Torres engineering have a similar thing.... They seem to have changed their 'mojo hype' which used to be like a "quack switch" to give that scooped strat sound... torresengineering.stores.yahoo.net/supmidandton.htmlThe thread you posted has plenty of variations and tech details of what the thing does. I assume that as a passive system though, there can only be a reduction...taking out midrange or in the above one perhaps reducing bass and treble to give the impression of a higher midrange while lowering everything in the process. I think it is a potentially interesting control and possibly useful. Many make very little use of a conventional tone control anyway. I am considering a mod to my mai guitar, a tele...adding a middle pickup and using the 'tone' control as a fader for a similar kind of effect...the middle pickup canceling out frequencies like a strat in positions 2 or 4...this would aim for a similar effect I assume... "acoustic" sound...perhaps that is a bit overstated...in the way that a strat can have a fairly 'acoustic' sound in such 'phased' positions perhaps. Depends what you want and expect from such a control and how much you value your conventional tone and whether you could accept a solution where you could switch between a conventional tone control and this mid cut thing... More powerful solutions though would be a small stompbox equalizer or if after the 'acoustic' sound, I have an acoustic modeller that consists of a bunch of filters to get a very realistic effect...
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Post by simes on Dec 16, 2010 2:25:49 GMT -5
OK, got it. So it could basically be described as a variable mid scoop control. Two immediate problems spring to mind. One is that, while a lot of people never use their tone controls, a lot of people do. I, for one, make constant use of the tone pot to tame the bridge pickup while playing through an amp trebly enough to give the other combinations the top end I want. I imagine that scooping the mids would give the perception of emphasising the top end, which would make matters worse in that sense. The other - and I say this from the point of view of mass appeal of this kind of device - is that I get the impression that many guitarists are suspicious of this kind of thing, as if it was somehow an articifial manipulation of the sound, as opposed to the "true", "organic" sound available from combining pickup coils in various ways. Whichever way, from what I can gather, the major use of such a device would be precisely as a kind of "quack switch" for a HH guitar. The thing about getting a clearer, more defined tone from a HB ... well, isn't that what coil splits and local s/p switches are for? Cheers, Simes
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Post by newey on Dec 16, 2010 6:09:46 GMT -5
Nope. So many projects, so little time . . . Simes- I do, too. But this isn't necessarily an either/or. You could have this, plus a regular tone control, using a P/P pot to switch the Q-filter in/out. If it wasn't standard on a '55 Strat, it ain't "vintage" . . .
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Post by simes on Dec 16, 2010 6:24:21 GMT -5
But is is either/or, isn't it?
You either roll off treble using the regular tone pot with the filter disengaged, or you roll off mids (thus "emphasising" treble) with the filter engaged. There would be no way of scooping the mids with the filter and rolling off treble with the pot unless you use two different pots.
I'd be interested to hear just how convincingly Stratty these things can get, particularly regarding quack-type sounds.
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Post by 4real on Dec 16, 2010 7:08:46 GMT -5
I doubt they really get that quacky...and I'd be concerned about scooping out the mids and rolling off the treble...you may end up filtering so much of your signal that the whole thing sounds weak!
Not sure that people are 'suspicious' about such things...there are plenty of tone control systems like spin-a-split type things and the old G&L bass and treble roll off things and others...perhaps replace the tone control with a varitone as this kind of thing was first implemented (and I think in the torres varitone) and have various tone positions to your liking.
The problem with tone controls is that they are often global with all pickups...unless a strat like dual system or an LP...I tend not to use them too much but there are some great examples of their use...JB has lots of fantastic tone control sounds...I do use them on my new LP though!
A varitone like control with preset tone filters that get to the sounds you are after on a single dial sounds like the ticket for what you use the things for though...tinker with things till you get each setting just right for your sound!
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Post by simes on Dec 16, 2010 9:25:32 GMT -5
Now I get it.
A Q-Filter/Varitone/Choke is what HH-configuration people install when they want Fender-ish sounds but don't have 4-wire HB's and don't want to route their guitar for a middle position SC.
How about that? ;D
Regarding tone controls, I think a master tone is barely more useful than no tone pot at all. To me, a bridge tone is a minimum requirement, as that's the place I'm most likely to need to cut overly shrill treble, and ideally I'd like separate bridge and neck/middle tone pots. I've never understood why stock Strats have separate tone pots for neck and middle PU's but none for the bridge PU.
Cheers,
Simes
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 16, 2010 10:56:17 GMT -5
Regarding tone controls, I think a master tone is barely more useful than no tone pot at all. To me, a bridge tone is a minimum requirement, as that's the place I'm most likely to need to cut overly shrill treble, and ideally I'd like separate bridge and neck/middle tone pots. I've never understood why stock Strats have separate tone pots for neck and middle PU's but none for the bridge PU. Well, not having a tone for the bridge actually gives you more treble and power than having a tone set on 10. I have a switch that takes the vol and tone pot out of the circuit for the bridge. I call it the 11 switch. And, there's the 'no-load' pot which works similar. Tone is in the ear of the beer-holder
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Post by newey on Dec 16, 2010 17:20:52 GMT -5
The reason is historical, it goes back to the amps of the 1950s; they were usually low output and didn't reproduce the highs very well. A tone control for the bridge would have been useless, since the bridge pickup had the weakest output anyway (due to its position at the end of the string), and turning down the tone would have cut the output too much.
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