1980 "The Strat" wiring

[intelejens]

I'm wondering if I can use a 5 way 4pole slide switch and a dpdt switch to achieve this wiring scheme as it is very difficult to get the 4PDT rotary switch that was used in the original.

Anyone have any ideas?

[newey]

intel-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Do you have a schematic or wiring diagram of "The Strat"'s wiring that you can link us to?

I found the owner's manual for this guitar on the Fender website, but couldn't find a wiring diagram. All that the owner's manual said was that the "mode selector", in the clockwise position, gave ordinary Strat parallel selections on the 5-way, while turning it CCW gave "a range of series sounds" on the 5-way switch.

It is quite possible that you can do this wiring with a 4P5T Superswitch and a DPDT, as you propose, but first we need to know what "this wiring" means.

[sumgai]

Google to the rescue!




Quick, somebody point this guy to a Mike Richardson mod! Oh never mind, I'll do it:

Mike Richardson's Original diagram, yielding all of The STRAT combos


(BTW, 4real, here's the real-meal-deal, as I alluded to in your thread a few days ago. )

inty, there are several successor mods to this mod by both Mike and by others here on this Forum. The Search function is in a narrow menu bar above these messages....

And finally, since I'm on a roll here:

Hi, and to the NutzHouse!


HTH





sumgai

[intelejens]

Thanks Sumgai and Newey!

The sounds I'm looking for are the ones described in the diagram that Sumgai posted.

I'm just looking for a way to wire it up using a 4P5T slide switch and a DPDT instead of the stock 5 way slide switch and the "twin mode rotary selector" 4P2T rotary switch.

I've been searching with no luck for the ever elusive 4P2T rotary switch. I know that this switch was custom made for Fender by Centralab and is no longer made. They're as rare as hen's teeth!

Hopefully Mike Richardson can chime in and offer some input on this.

[newey]

MR stops by only rarely, so the likelihood is that we're on our own. As sg points out, MR's scheme does most of what The Strat does. So, do you want exactly what The Strat offers? Does it need to be in the same sequence?

The primary differences seem to be that MR has N+B on the parallel side, instead of the mid only, and features all three in series and in parallel on the series side, while The Strat only offers all 3 together as (N+Br) x M, and also puts the N + B on the series side.

I think we can do a diagram to do this, but I'm not sure that the order will be the same.

[asmith]

We could start on a couple of 'bases,' and work our way from there.

1. Mike Richardson has a variation on the GuitarNuts.com website where the original Stratocaster selections (N, N+M, M, etc...) are selectable with the switch down, and the 'crazy stuff' happens with the switch up. We could look into modding that.

2. Here's a way to get some interesting series and parallel combinations with a HSS configuration. Changing it to a SSS seems like a doddle at first, but I've tinkered around with it and it's more difficult than it looks. But there might be a way to mod that.

3. There's a thread kicking around in which three humbuckers are treated as S1-S2-S3-S4-S5-S6, and a 5-way SuperSwitch gives 1&2, 2&3, 3&4, 4&5 and 5&6, with a push/pull DPDT to ascertain whether the two selected pickups are in series or parallel. I think modding this seems the most promising to be the method to mod to get your array of selections - then again of course, I'm the guy who thought modding my own option 2 would be easy and it's not. Unfortunately I can't find the thread.

This seems like a cool project, but I'm keeping in mind one thing. If Fender could create this scheme with a 5-way SuperSwitch and a DPDT, why didn't they? They might have picked using a rotary switch because that's the best way to do it, if not the only way.

EDIT: And welcome to GuitarNutz 2 - Electric Boogaloo.

[intelejens]

Newey,

I'm looking for exactly what "The Strat" offers.

[newey]

(Insert collective egg on all of our faces here . . . )

ITJ-

sg mentions Mike Richardson's schemes, original and modified, others take off on that, but no one bothers to go check the original GNutz site, where there is a whole page of MR diagrams, including this one:



He uses a 6P2T switch, instead of the 4P2T Fender Custom deal- just leaves 2 poles unwired-, and he gives a Mouser part no. for the switch he used. I did not check Mouser to see whether that part is still available, but apparently MR got it to fit . . .

[gumbo]

...I did that a couple of daze ago, & Mouser came up "no such item...."

[newey]

The part nos have changed. I think this one is the one you want, but check the dimensions on the data sheet pdf closely. The shaft is 1/4" round.

www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/SR2511F-0602-19R0B-E9-S-W/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNbjZ2WlReYnqYHrQfuERsYDr%252bV%2fs9Quk%3d

[gumbo]

Well done Newey...I didn't obviously search long or deep enough...at the time I thought I'd just file all that away for later..now that you've found it, I can see a whole new chapter erupting....

...thank you... (I think.....)

...Happy Newey Year!

[ashcatlt]

Of course, if you take that part number and replace the "6" with a "4" you get the exact switch you want.

My Strat has 3 of these (the DP5T version, which is the same size) on a GuitarFetish pickguard. It all fit fine on the Behringer body where I first installed it, but when I moved it to a Squier, I had to modify the area near the neck joint to get it on at all, and then the switch in the spot where the Mid T would be doesn't fit. One of these days I'll move that hole a half inch or so... I never tried these switches on the Squier's own pickguard. The holes are probably in different places.

Also, the Strat knobs meant for knurled/split shaft pots don't fit these switches. I was able to ream the knobs out with a 1/4" drill bit (you can actually do it by hand, or with a vicegrips on the bit) and get them to work. There's just barely enough more friction force than the torque it takes to turn the switch.

[newey]

Good call, Ash! Mouser's search function didn't find that one for me for some reason- the only 4PDT rotaries it listed were screw-terminal 120VAC jobs that were way too big.

There's just barely enough more friction force than the torque it takes to turn the switch.

I, too, have had to drill out knobs to get them to fit a solid shaft. For the rotary, if the "barely enough" friction turns out to not be enough (as in my case, probably because I egged the hole a little), you can drill a hole through the knob and a bit into the shaft and either tap it for a set screw (best) or just force-fit a small metal pin in the hole to secure the knob.

[4real]

I actually did find and use the original sites hand drawn diagram of the MR scheme as I found if far easier to read and modify in that format than the full blown MR+phase extravaganza...

I hadn't noticed 'the strat' thing.

Guitar companies, particularly fender and gibson seem to have some quirks.

For instance, fender has had many forays into push button things...the S-! is just the latest version...and these things have never really caught on and notorious for their fragility and difficulty in getting parts.

I went the push pull and like that clean look...but for practicality nothing really beats your standard mini toggle...reliable, cheap...chrome and you can see and feel exactly what is going on with the things.

For instance, you could do this whole 'strat' thing with a single 4pdt toggle thing...and you'd still have a knob spare for a tone or something...but no...fender have to put in a rotray so the thing looks 'stock' presumably...though the whole point of that guitar was that it was a 'super strat'.

I'd still have a think as to whether that isn't an option wired as per 'the strat' over a rotary and ll the mods to knobs and such that is required.

I was going to say that there are plenty of rotary switch options around...many have adjustable settings and poles and hardly bigger than a pot...not for fender knobs but there are ways around that kind of thing.

Personally I'd prefer the MR selections and layout I suspect...but the strat isn't bad and covers most of the good sounds.

I did a simple 'neck on' switch for a bit on my strat and that covers most of the best 'missing sounds' on a strat. The neck+bridge and all three are great sounds. The series sounds I'm not that taken with, perhaps it depends on the guitar and pickups or maybe some tinkering with caps might settle them down. The give more 'power' but at the expense of treble but they are not 'classic' like a strats parallel sounds which it does so well nor quite a a great HB sound either. Useful, but not a 'must have' at least not for me.

Phase switching is kind of a novelty thing, it can be fun and occasionally work well...I had a cheap strat with 3 phase switches that worked really well for some reason. For recording and layering of stuff it could be very useful...my tele's phase switch can be good for a particular kind of thing. But generally it is very thin...good for getting that Stevie wonder 'superstitious' clavichord sound and scratchy lo fi funky bright chord stuff...but that only really works if you are playing in a band to fill out such a texture or recording perhaps.

Anyway...good to see you are finding the parts and found a scheme that suits...other than control knob mods, a rotary is at least reversible and you can get a lot of poles...but I kind of like toggles if putting a hole in a guitar isn't an issue and there is room.

If I were fender, there are so many great mods that they could have offered as standard or on special issues over push buttons and rotary controls or these S-1 switches.

With they introduction of 'modified' starts...like the HSS or HH formats...well, there are so many things they kind of could do.

There was something really neat about those old schecter three toggles replacing the selector completely (I think it was the armstrong scheme)...why they never offered that on something I'll never know!

I did see a way though where one could make your own S-1 from a link here to the switch build into it. I suspect that if you spring loaded the pot with some neoprene rubber...and built a cradle to hold the switch in such a way below the pot...you could make a push push switch pot that could do 4pdt with even less impact visually and otherwise to such a control...all that you would see is that the pot would sit up a bit to allow you to push it. Certainly cheaper than the cost that people are paying for the things on eBay and who knows what you do if your original guitar's S-1 packs it in as they don't sell the part!