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Post by Yew on Feb 3, 2011 10:35:17 GMT -5
hye guys, Im more doing this for referance for people, than much of a thread. But im trying to get all the filtertron style pups i can in the same place ^^ Filtertron SizedGretsch filtertron (Vintage) Gretsch Filtertron (New) TV jones filtertron (Other sizes too, dogear mount, HB mount with standard filter size, DeArmond mounts) Seymour Duncan HB SizeTV Jones DeMarzio JB The Creamery Swing-O's GFS Retro'trons (three magnet choices, mini and standard size) Axesrus H Gate (full and mini) Kent armstrong Kentrons (Some german company makes some nice ones too) Kent armstrong Kentrons I havent grouped in terms of quality, but if you can afford the TV's or the Seymour/Demarzios, then try to get something like that
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Post by Yew on Feb 3, 2011 10:39:53 GMT -5
I might try and put links to clips on this, if there is somone that needs it
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Post by newey on Feb 3, 2011 20:38:52 GMT -5
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Post by Yew on Feb 4, 2011 7:39:28 GMT -5
Thanks newey, im thinking there isnt much about filtertron clones, compared to PAF's anyway
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Post by Yew on Feb 4, 2011 13:29:03 GMT -5
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 20, 2021 21:40:19 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Sept 20, 2021 21:48:33 GMT -5
I installed a GFS Retrotron in my Epiphone LP Jr. and am very happy with it. Mind you, I haven't compared it with actual retrotrons (it is HB-sized) or any of the boutique clones listed here, but for the money I'm very happy with the sound. It is the only Filtertron (-ish) equipped guitar in the stable, but I'd definitely like more.
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 21, 2021 16:51:29 GMT -5
I installed a GFS Retrotron in my Epiphone LP Jr. and am very happy with it. Mind you, I haven't compared it with actual retrotrons (it is HB-sized) or any of the boutique clones listed here, but for the money I'm very happy with the sound. It is the only Filtertron (-ish) equipped guitar in the stable, but I'd definitely like more. Neat! Definitely thinking about putting some sort of Filtertrons in my guitar — probably a pair, but I've also thought about trying one only in the neck. Humbucker-sized 'tron pickups are very controversial, as you probably know. TV Jones themselves sell them and claim they sound the same as the normal-sized ones, but not all their customers agree. The conventional wisdom is that the spacing is a critical part of the sound recipe. I don't know how true that is. From looking at the Pickup Testing forum, it seems like the cover may be a bigger part? And then there are the magnets.... I've looked at the GF'Tron pickups, but I think I may want to go directly to a somewhat more expensive option so I won't be wondering if I ought to upgrade right away ... if that makes sense.
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Post by newey on Sept 21, 2021 20:32:08 GMT -5
I won't say you're wrong on differences between the "real" Filtertrons versus the HB-sized emulations; as I said I've never done anything remotely approaching a comparison. I haven't played a guitar with Filtertrons since my 8th-grade garage band (One of our guitarists had a Gretsch Nashville)- and I won't disclose how long ago that was, but Nixon was in the White House . . . All I know is that the GFS Retrotron sounds a whole lot better than the HB that Epiphone put in there.
But, boy-o, my local music store has a Gretsch 50th Anniversary Edition in the Cadillac Green color. That, and a Ric 12-string, just as soon as I hit the lottery. (Which will be never, since I don't play it).
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Post by gckelloch on Sept 21, 2021 22:57:45 GMT -5
I installed a GFS Retrotron in my Epiphone LP Jr. and am very happy with it. Mind you, I haven't compared it with actual retrotrons (it is HB-sized) or any of the boutique clones listed here, but for the money I'm very happy with the sound. It is the only Filtertron (-ish) equipped guitar in the stable, but I'd definitely like more. Neat! Definitely thinking about putting some sort of Filtertrons in my guitar — probably a pair, but I've also thought about trying one only in the neck. Humbucker-sized 'tron pickups are very controversial, as you probably know. TV Jones themselves sell them and claim they sound the same as the normal-sized ones, but not all their customers agree. The conventional wisdom is that the spacing is a critical part of the sound recipe. I don't know how true that is. From looking at the Pickup Testing forum, it seems like the cover may be a bigger part? And then there are the magnets.... I've looked at the GF'Tron pickups, but I think I may want to go directly to a somewhat more expensive option so I won't be wondering if I ought to upgrade right away ... if that makes sense. Whatever else might happen with the coil dimensions or the magnetic circuit, the thinner aperture width would mean the harmonic cancellations on each string start at a higher freq and there is slightly less roll off on the high harmonics. Those two factors would be audible to some extent, the second factor depending somewhat on the capacitance and the guitar speaker FR. Of the GFTRon video demos, I much prefer the sweet chime of the Classic Vintage with the A2 magnets. They won't be very high output, but that can be overcome with a gain or level boost b4 an amp or whatever. Odd that the "Modern Lead" model is considered hottest. The DCR is a bit higher than the Hard Vintage, but the coil wire is thinner, so it should have roughly the same wraps. Either way, I don't like the demo of those either, but I don't generally like stronger than A4 Gauss powered pickups because of the harsher attack character the detuned harmonics from the excess string pull can create. I'd go for the A2 models. You can probably change the magnets to A4 later if you want just slightly more bite and more warmth/meat (from the much increased permeability). You'd have to desolder and pry free the the casing to swap the magnets, but it can be done. I believe this is the correct magnet dimension for a thin HB pickup like that, but I'm not sure. They might know: www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/pickup-making-parts/bar-magnets/alnico-4-bar-magnet-2-05-x-315-x-125-magnetized-qty-2/
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 22, 2021 13:37:56 GMT -5
I won't say you're wrong on differences between the "real" Filtertrons versus the HB-sized emulations; as I said I've never done anything remotely approaching a comparison. I haven't played a guitar with Filtertrons since my 8th-grade garage band (One of our guitarists had a Gretsch Nashville)- and I won't disclose how long ago that was, but Nixon was in the White House . . . All I know is that the GFS Retrotron sounds a whole lot better than the HB that Epiphone put in there. Hey, it doesn't have to be authentic as long as you're happy with it! I guess I was mainly asking the question of whether the spacing matters in a roundabout way. Whatever else might happen with the coil dimensions or the magnetic circuit, the thinner aperture width would mean the harmonic cancellations on each string start at a higher freq and there is slightly less roll off on the high harmonics. Those two factors would be audible to some extent, the second factor depending somewhat on the capacitance and the guitar speaker FR. OK, thanks! It's good to know that isn't all balderdash. Interesting. I don't think I want to even aim for a magnet swap yet, as I haven't done the first bit of guitar rewiring yet, but, maybe someday! It's hard for me to listen past the styles and amp tones in their demo video (too country or too hard rock for my taste), but I found this Darrell Braun video about GFS pickups, " 5 Affordable Pickups (That Actually Sound Great!)," more interesting:
(Set to start at the GF'Tron section, but the back-to-back comparison at around 10:10 is helpful.)
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 22, 2021 13:53:09 GMT -5
I believe this video by Chris Buck was the eye-opener (ear-opener?) for me: (" The Humbucker KILLER?" Forgive the clickbaity title — it's worthwhile.) He does a back-to-back between PAF- and Filtertron-style pickups starting around 4:30 in the video, but gives a nice short history and includes some beautiful playing as well, so I say watch the whole thing! Honorable mention: Rhett Shull's " What Is the Filtertron Sound?"
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Post by Yogi B on Sept 22, 2021 16:54:02 GMT -5
I believe this video by Chris Buck was the eye-opener (ear-opener?) for me Chris Buck: the tonal difference is (in part) due to fact that in a filtertron the bobbins are closer together. Also Chris Buck: plays PAF sized Lollertrons (thus the two demoed sets of pickups have the same bobbin spacing).
From Jason Lollar: "...the pole pieces are one-sixteenth of an inch (~1.6mm) closer together which has a slight affect on the tone. We spread the polepieces apart a tiny little bit, and I had to adjust for that in the way I wound the coil — to make the pickup a little bit brighter — but it's a very subtle difference between the two..."
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Post by gckelloch on Sept 22, 2021 21:18:34 GMT -5
I won't say you're wrong on differences between the "real" Filtertrons versus the HB-sized emulations; as I said I've never done anything remotely approaching a comparison. I haven't played a guitar with Filtertrons since my 8th-grade garage band (One of our guitarists had a Gretsch Nashville)- and I won't disclose how long ago that was, but Nixon was in the White House . . . All I know is that the GFS Retrotron sounds a whole lot better than the HB that Epiphone put in there. Hey, it doesn't have to be authentic as long as you're happy with it! I guess I was mainly asking the question of whether the spacing matters in a roundabout way. Whatever else might happen with the coil dimensions or the magnetic circuit, the thinner aperture width would mean the harmonic cancellations on each string start at a higher freq and there is slightly less roll off on the high harmonics. Those two factors would be audible to some extent, the second factor depending somewhat on the capacitance and the guitar speaker FR. OK, thanks! It's good to know that isn't all balderdash. Interesting. I don't think I want to even aim for a magnet swap yet, as I haven't done the first bit of guitar rewiring yet, but, maybe someday! It's hard for me to listen past the styles and amp tones in their demo video (too country or too hard rock for my taste), but I found this Darrell Braun video about GFS pickups, " 5 Affordable Pickups (That Actually Sound Great!)," more interesting:
(Set to start at the GF'Tron section, but the back-to-back comparison at around 10:10 is helpful.)
Yeah, I've seen all of Darrell's vids from a few years back. I love what he does, and the GFTron sounds really nice there. He must be mistaken about the output of the Crunchy Pat's vs the VEH, though. The CP's have more winds (42AWG vs 43AWG wire), and a higher Gauss ceramic magnet. He must have adjusted the VEH set up closer to the strings. That and the stronger/higher freq peak of the lower inductance VEH set makes them sound more punchy and brighter. I made the same mistake with my VEH bridge pickup when I first tried it -- set it up way too high. Players must instinctively set Ceramic pickups lower because the string pull is just too much. Lowering a pickup coil also has the affect of evening out the attack vs sustain level. That's partially why people assume raising a pickup coil increases treble response. That's the attack level increasing. Lowering a pickup coil actually reduces the level of the lower note harmonics, as well as the attack and overall output. So, lowering a pickup that has a C8 magnet a bit reduces lower harmonics and evens out the attack to sustain level without losing as much "bite" as a pickup with a weaker magnet because the signal level is still relatively strong, and the string pull also increases some of the harmonics at different positions. Low inductance pickups like Filterons or the GFTrons aren't generally good for high gain tones because there's more extended high end, and there's more lows when the pickup is adjusted high enough to drive a preamp to the players taste. The original Filteron neck pickup was below 2H. I'd estimate the GFTron set to be 2.5H~3H. That's in the Fender single coil range, but the Steel screws roll off the high end more than AlNiCo poles. The Brass baseplate and cover also reduce the high end a bit.
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 23, 2021 14:23:13 GMT -5
Chris Buck: the tonal difference is (in part) due to fact that in a filtertron the bobbins are closer together. Also Chris Buck: plays PAF sized Lollertrons (thus the two demoed sets of pickups have the same bobbin spacing). Ohh reaally! Well, maybe I am looking for a humbucker-size pickup tuned to sound like a Filtertron! 🙃 Yeah, I've seen all of Darrell's vids from a few years back. I love what he does, and the GFTron sounds really nice there. He must be mistaken about the output of the Crunchy Pat's vs the VEH, though. The CP's have more winds (42AWG vs 43AWG wire), and a higher Gauss ceramic magnet. He must have adjusted the VEH set up closer to the strings. That and the stronger/higher freq peak of the lower inductance VEH set makes them sound more punchy and brighter. I made the same mistake with my VEH bridge pickup when I first tried it -- set it up way too high. I'd like to hear the GF'Tron's compared with 'tron pickups of other brands — Darrell has done a Filtertron comparison video, but it's just TV Jones vs. Gretsch. In this video, I didn't pay much attention to the Crunchy PAT's and VEH's, as that's not the kind of sound I'm looking for. I did like the Classic II's in that video — they sound more like the stock pickups in my guitar than other humbuckers I've heard (though I don't know precisely what kind mine are, besides Dean, and maybe "DMT Designed"). How would one know whether the pickups are set too high or low? I thought that was a matter of taste. (Can take this to a different thread if that would be better.) Darrell's "crunchy" tones are about as high-gain as I'm likely to get, so I think I'm okay there. I'm not sure, though, if I'll get the output I want or not. I'll probably just have to try them and find out!
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 23, 2021 14:30:55 GMT -5
Just for anyone else looking here, some updated links: - The Creamery now calls theirs Black Cat pickups
- Seymour Duncan seems to have branded all their 'tron pickups Psyclone™
- Curtis Novak still has F-TRONs, but the link has changed
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Post by gckelloch on Sept 23, 2021 17:09:16 GMT -5
Chris Buck: the tonal difference is (in part) due to fact that in a filtertron the bobbins are closer together. Also Chris Buck: plays PAF sized Lollertrons (thus the two demoed sets of pickups have the same bobbin spacing). Ohh reaally! Well, maybe I am looking for a humbucker-size pickup tuned to sound like a Filtertron! 🙃 Yeah, I've seen all of Darrell's vids from a few years back. I love what he does, and the GFTron sounds really nice there. He must be mistaken about the output of the Crunchy Pat's vs the VEH, though. The CP's have more winds (42AWG vs 43AWG wire), and a higher Gauss ceramic magnet. He must have adjusted the VEH set up closer to the strings. That and the stronger/higher freq peak of the lower inductance VEH set makes them sound more punchy and brighter. I made the same mistake with my VEH bridge pickup when I first tried it -- set it up way too high. I'd like to hear the GF'Tron's compared with 'tron pickups of other brands — Darrell has done a Filtertron comparison video, but it's just TV Jones vs. Gretsch. In this video, I didn't pay much attention to the Crunchy PAT's and VEH's, as that's not the kind of sound I'm looking for. I did like the Classic II's in that video — they sound more like the stock pickups in my guitar than other humbuckers I've heard (though I don't know precisely what kind mine are, besides Dean, and maybe "DMT Designed"). How would one know whether the pickups are set too high or low? I thought that was a matter of taste. (Can take this to a different thread if that would be better.) Darrell's "crunchy" tones are about as high-gain as I'm likely to get, so I think I'm okay there. I'm not sure, though, if I'll get the output I want or not. I'll probably just have to try them and find out! Pickup height is entirely personal preference. I only consider it too high when the attack is overwhelmingly strong and/or there are audible fast modulations up higher on the neck. That's my preference. Yeah, you won't know about the output till you try them. Considering the inductance, the Steel pole screws, etc, the GFTron's with 500k pots should have an upper midrange character like a typical Tele bridge pickup with A3 poles, but more bassy and with a bit higher output.
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 30, 2021 14:27:06 GMT -5
Yeah, you won't know about the output till you try them. Considering the inductance, the Steel pole screws, etc, the GFTron's with 500k pots should have an upper midrange character like a typical Tele bridge pickup with A3 poles, but more bassy and with a bit higher output. Hmm, that's actually a bit off-putting. I'm not a fan of the Tele bridge sound (well, not a fan of bridge pickups bridge-position sounds in general, though I usually like bridge-and-neck sounds). However, I know a lot of it comes down to playing style and external processing, and I did like Darrell Braun's samples, as mentioned above. Maybe I'll be able to find a used pair to try at some point.
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