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Post by 4real on Feb 25, 2011 4:46:33 GMT -5
Ahhh...so much to learn, but getting there...I now know that ASIO not only stands for "Australian Secret Intelligence organisation" for instance...LOL
So, awaiting the full registered version, but getting around Mixcraft fairly easily for now. Finally found a MIDI cable and discovered that my cheap casio works perfectly as a MIDI keyboard although not velocity sensitive. The keyboard sounds are of course impressive though i am not much of a keyboard player...still, there is always step programming and editing on that side of things.
Have not attempted drums but got it down to pretty much zero latency and can play the guitar and such through the amp sims now ok which is a start. There does seem to be some recording of the metronome in the background for some reason, but only slightly...might be doing something wrong there.
Amp sims though are all a bit cheezy metal orientated I must say, but I am sure they can be tweaked to suit and makes a decent sound in teh mix. A bit of hiss for some reason, not sure what's going on there either, but this can be edited out. I'll try taking a line out of a real amp perhaps, maybe miking as well to see if there are better sound to be had that way. What I've found with this, and just generally with modelling is that you really loose a lot of the character of the guitar itself. On the up side, you can copy a track to another and apply another amp simulation as if you were running your guitar through as many amps and effects as you choose! Plus, if you record with one sound but you don't like it, you can easily change the entire amp rig as you please.
Being a "nut" again came in handy today when I finally got around to replacing the jack socket in my fretless bass as well...so now i can go bowwww over everything...LOL
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Post by 4real on Feb 26, 2011 1:52:01 GMT -5
So...been a week and finally getting the hang of things and got to make my first 'scratch recording'. All one takes, so don't expect much, a lot could be done with editing and fixing things up. But getting the hang of it. I used the amps in the shreadmaster vst that came with it, some clean setting, but even with reverbs and all, sounds a bit dry...next step is to work out better presets and to mic the amps I guess...maybe a compromise and a line out from the amp and then processed...we will see. Now...i didn't realize that you can do video and so sound on photobucket...wow. So, I can actually post it here I think...lets have a go... Ok...didn't work as expected, but still...double click on it and it will take you to the photobucket folder and press play. I caught a bit of a storm on my still camera, so could add video to it...not much to look at. Played a few chords, added a string pad, played a solo, added some out of tune bass...ooops, mixed low...and then added the AVi video file as a track, found it had audio also, so kept that low as mostly wind, but has some local birds there for mood...added some thunder and rain...instant video in half an hour and learned a lot to get there of course! Now, with some time and more practice, I would never have left some of those out of tune bends in it, and as a tune, it sets a mood but goes no where particularly of course. For those following the 'theory' thread thingy, it is typical pentatonic strat stuff, clean...Am-F with an E cadence. As there is an F-E thing there in A, good place to put in that diminished arpeggio type stuff to round it out and be a bit more 'interesting'...so, there you go, video and audio all in a DAW, mixed to a small file too, uploaded direct to photobucket and available instantly just like that...who would have dreamed...wow...now, if only I had something to play! I don't have a video camera or a handle on that side yet, but perhaps this might be a good way to do some demos for Nutz with a silde show or something illustrating the guitar and control settings with adio...will be on my list to do and would make a good practice clip...have to wait on that! too much fun...pete
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Post by newey on Feb 26, 2011 6:18:08 GMT -5
OK, so "Sound Samples" isn't enough, now I've got to push out a "Video Samples" too? Seriously, nicely done! +1 for our first foray into AV! With what little recording I've done through the computer, I've found that mic'ing an amp is the way to go. Works much better than DI or using a line out. Get a clean tone through the amp onto the track, and then pile on the .vst stuff afterwards. Just IMO, anyway.
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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 26, 2011 13:01:39 GMT -5
Sounds pretty good on the iPhone at least. Really good for a first shot. Remember that nobody else is going to be as picky as you about the fine differences in your tone. It's something I think a lot of people overlook when searching for "ultimate tone". A half decible here or there just doesn't matter to the audience. Get it close enough and then play something that doesn't suck. While I personally can't fathom how the Harmonic Converger is worth the boutique price, the concept is valid. It's basically a double pole LPF with cutoff somewhere near 5K and a little resonant peak right before. Takes some of the "digital fizz" out of an amp sim - warms it up and makes it sound a little more present. You can do this in DAW with any LPF with Q set to 2. This comes after the amp sim, of course. There are some pretty good free amp sims out the. Go to Voxengo and grab Boogex. It's a little less than intuitive in interface, but a pretty powerful engine to get some pretty convincing tones. They've got that TubeAmp thing, too. Sounds good, but a lot more limited. While you're there grab most of those free VSTs, even if you don't think you need them right now. I use SPAN (spectrum analyzer) obsessively, sometimes on individual tracks but often on the mix buss. OvertoneGEQ is a really great sounding little tool. MSED can be fun sometimes for Mid/Side processing. This other is not really guitar oriented, but highly recommended if your going to get into MIDI backing tracks. Go the GSi and grab their free "legacy" pack. It's got a B3 instrument with two manuals plus bass pedals (on three separate MIDI channels) with automatable drawbars and a really convincing sound. Run that through Mr. Donald - a great sounding Leslie sim complete with convince tube amp overdrive and realistic Doppler/phase action - and even my dad could be fooled. (Well, he'd complain he can't smell the oil on the tonewheels, but...). There's also a couple of super Electric Piano sims in there. I don't think you'll be disappointed, and the price is right! PS - did you get my email?
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Post by 4real on Feb 26, 2011 16:57:40 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
Video samples, if i only had a video camera. I'm looking to mess with some programs to cross fade stills though and mix craft allows you to move and cross fade as a video track, much to my surprise photobucket can upload vids, so there is a way to share stuff without making a movie or having to go through all that 'soundclick' sharing stuff.
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Playing through the amp is the way to go really, not necessarily all the time as in the context of a mix like this, you don't really hear a lot of the subtleties I guess, but there is something less when you play through phones.
Dug up an old mic stand and some cheap old mics from the band days and will see what works to capture that. I'll need to invest in a decent cheap mic soon i guess, but the wish list grows and I have to moderate things a bit.
I've finally found a use for a bunch of stuff that's been hanging around and little used, like even the audio interface, the old cheap casio keyboard (worked perfectly as midi if very basic), old mics, maybe even my collection of weird stomp boxes will have a place...all kinds of things I didn't know i had...
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Ash....Mixcraft comes with Voxengo, unusual interface and the presets are a bit naff, but it is probably as powerful a tool as any. I might even have used it on something there.
Mixcraft also comes with a great Hammond, not sure about the rotating speaker side of things. Automation is very cool, and relatively easy on mixcraft, over did some of the panning on that if you are in stereo. Fo a lot of things, you can assign VST controls and simply select which control you want to move in time and watch the virtual knobs spin...very intuitive.
I'll have to play around with some of these tools...there is a spectrum analyser in there, but have not yet opened it up...I thought it was for analysing sounds...oh, so much to learn...LOL
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Good advice, no not that concerned over tone, though some 'detail' is important, some of the amp sims, i couldn't tell between pickup selections it was such a processed sound!
But this is true of any music, playing something that doesn't suck is so much important than playing something that has great tone, but does 'suck'...LOL...and there is a bit of that about.
I'm not too worried about the 'tone' with this experiment for instance, it was all kind of rushed as I say to get some sounds down and see how things worked...but i really hear things like that out of tune bend a 0.11...and some of the timing...hmmm. Some of it is that things don't quite sit well in the mix perhaps.
But it is a very different kind of thing to just 'playing the guitar', more like sculpting once you have the sounds in the box.
I have been doing a bit of studying on things. Mixcraft have some good tutorials...there probably quite a few quirks and limitations to this program as the accent is on a simple interface, there might be a need for other DAWs, mixcraft seems to have the capacity to link such programs into it...but as an introductory thing, i think i made the right choice there. Am awaiting them sending out the full pro version, so been put off loading too many VSTs and such as I might have to do it all again or clutter up the drive. If I am going to be doing a lot of this and also video i think i will need a good USB 3 external drive as well...keep this dedicated to projects and extras as it would be very easy to fill the computer up with 'stuff'.
Similar with all those free plugins and samples and such...been exploring all those kinds of sites a bit, and they are free of course (well, generally) but there is the 'price' of having so much stuff and not getting around to learning how to 'really' use them well...they are after all, potentially very powerful tools in the right hands.
I love delays for instance, you look at any of these VST's really...there are a couple in mixcraft, very basic 'acoustica' types, bunch of sliders for basic functions...then all these G-sonix effects. I'd paid a fair bit in hardware to just get such sounds, these can do all kinds of things (with automation!) including emulating tape, ping pong, timed delays...any one plug-in opens up so many possibilities. This is especially true if you were able to give away the idea that one has to actually reproduce such things 'live'.
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Ok...so been seeing a few vids that have been interesting...Mixcraft's Tutorial channel is great to learn the basic functions and potential. The examples used are loaded in the program so you can try things out on them for yourself.
Thomas Dolby is about to release a new album (after 20 years i think) and I really like his production quality and sense of humour. He has taken some of that 'steam punk' attitude to the max as you can in that position, building his studio in a lifeboat...LOL...but as it happens, he has taken the time to dissect the songs and demo the pro tools things and alternate takes.
Reveals much about the 'song writing process' and how to use these machines creatively and how to work with others, sometimes across great distances (sending files back and forth)...and even working with 'stars' and making choices....very revealing...like this one, working with Mark Knophler. He plays the raw takes of various kinds, then how it is all combined into a composite track later...
embedding code didn't work for me again...technology!
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It just shows the attention to detail and even with some great playing, one still needs to be discriminating to be great over just 'good'. It just goes to show how that great 'solo' is so often pieced together these days...maybe one could learn it later.
It's so cool to be able to do this...although it seems a bit like 'cheating'.
I used to record quite a bit of stuff myself with a pair of cassette decks, literally swapping over tapes from one machine to another, recording one machine and adding the next track onto that...no mixing possible, no editing and a continually degrading sound...LOL...but for the technology there are some great things in boxes here that I hope to recover with this perhaps.
But you can see from this clip how you could go nuts just playing and then cutting a pasting later...
If not familiar with TD work other than his pop synth type things, he has a very broad style and his productions are exceptionally clear and detailed despite having so much going on in them...I found the final track this morning...
His three 'dissections' of this song goes from the song writing inspiration (windsurfing off of alcatraz), working with musicians across cyberspace, working with the technology, working with artists and studios through to making this kind of quality in what is essentially a home studio...very inspiring to see what can be done.
(EDITed by sumgai, fixed the boogered-up YouTube links.)
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Post by 4real on Mar 1, 2011 5:55:35 GMT -5
Well, continuing adventures in the digital wonderland. Got the Mixcraft 5 in the mail and it adds a few more effects and instruments, pride of place in that is the "Pianissimo" sampled steinway VSTi...truely is amazing even with a non-velocity cheap keyboard. One of the classic Moog instruments is also very cool with sequenced simple arpegiator and filter sweeps (think those classic who synth parts). Meanwhile been trolling the internet for some free VSTs and came across some interesting guitar oriented freebies. rekkerd.org/fretted-synth/This site gathers together a bunch of simple programs, quite a few guitar amp and effects models...plus a heap of mono synth triggering and MIDI mapping from the guitar without a midi pickup interface...all for free. Other things like this... www.echotapper.nl/dev/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=11These guys have exactly models classic "shadows" early 60's tape echo sounds...again free... Of course most things are 'dance orientated' synthy noisemakers. There are some interesting potentials in samplers like the free "short circuit" to load up with any number of samples about and trigger drum hits and such and like EZD (which I really can't spring for at this stage) in the midi environment. I still have not played too much with 'Beatcraft" but got some more kits and the code for it. It is quite intuitive and will be useful, if not as good as a full midi program. Some of the extra sampled kits are pretty good though, including some weird 'lo-fi' rock kits as well as the standard fair and some 'dry' so you can add effects as you choose. Potentially one could take the samples from their library and load it into a sampler to be triggered by midi, building ones own EZD if a little fussy. Even steal a few classic hits off of records . Then there is the whole working with loops side of things....a huge world to explore there yet. Have already learned the benefit of regular saving though, it is not done automatically and lost a few things already from unexpected 'crashes' that I have yet to explain...generally it is stable though and I expect some VST's might be causing problems.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 1, 2011 12:15:54 GMT -5
on comping together bits of solos, I have heard that is a Gilmour trick, but instead of using the comped solo, he 'learns' it and plays a whole solo that is the keeper. I've been using this technique alot lately. If you listened to my Aguas de Marco cover that i posted a while ago, the solos are done in this way. They are still made up of comped takes, but the bits and phrases are longer than the original mess that I glued together. Plus it lets you link phrases together. It's a good way to blend the creativity and the nice and neat. haha, and yes ctrl+s as much as you can! It'll only take a couple lost "epic takes" to get in the habit
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 1, 2011 13:29:14 GMT -5
Most DAWs nowadays save the audio you record to a seperate file somewhere.*. If a crash happens after you've recorded an audio track but before you save the project, you may be able to recover. No luck with midi, automation, vst or mixer settings, etc, but better than nothing.
Also, many programs have autosave settings somewhere, you might just need to poke around in the menus.
"Save As" can be your friend too. Reaper will save the Undo history with the file, so you can back up as far as necessary. Even so, it's a good idea to Save and then Save As before you get into major changes, just in case.
*These files are usually saved in a separate folder, and by default most DAWs put this folder on the same drive as the program. If it didn't ask you to configure this at install, it's worth a check through the menus to make sure they're going where you want them.
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Post by Yew on Mar 1, 2011 14:42:12 GMT -5
Hope all is going well, im having a big spell of blues with my Pc atm... and not in the chicago way
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Post by 4real on Mar 5, 2011 4:53:28 GMT -5
The computer is going ok...using it for a bunch of things but coming together and amazing what the possibilities are with this kind of tool... So, exercise three was to try loading in a midi file off the net and play with instruments and effects and see what I could come up with. The 'pro' version comes with a great 'dub' delay that can be timed to the tempo and comes up with all kinds of interesting effects. There are a few delays and such in this and been downloading quite a few VSTs some of which are quite good...so will see how this 'loads' for those who can see it... Again clicking on it should get to the page of the 'dub mix'. The pictures are just a semi random set from my camera and embeds into facebook just to add a bit of visual. It includes the samples steinway which is very good though the quality may be lost on computer speakers, the mp3 quality and my use of delay on it. It is very realistic, can even adjust the amount of hammer sounds and such. I need a decent velocity sensitive keyboard to get the most out of it. The drums are also heavily effected, that give it that trippy beat...but it does distort the sounds a bit. I used some of the internal acoustica kits but they are a weak point that will need to be addressed, but not that bad, hard to tell with this mix. None of the sounds are "real" all are midi, but there is a guitar line that i processed with a VST modeled stopmbox SD1 that is very authentic (and free) and a free amp, plus the dub delay...and it sounds pretty real IMHO so mixed it up more in the mix even though a very incidental part. I forget which string pad I used, but again, not too bad a sound in a mix. Anyway, a very simple way of creating a track and learning...took only a few minutes to download a midi file, drag it into mixcraft and all the tracks opened with appropriate GM midi sounds right away. Then just go in and select better instruments and samples...then apply effects...instant track, no playing required at all! So, it proved a principle...one can down load any of millions of midi tracks and edit them or delete parts or change sounds as required. Mixcraft has a notation editor, not bad, but perhaps Guitar Pro 6 would provide a much more powerful editor to prepare a midi trak and humanize it a little more before dragging over to the DAW. Eventually, I will take things like drum feels and such from tunes I like or styles an chop them up to produce slice of midi files with 'licks' and 'beats' that I can patch together and minimize the original writing while still getting a decent drum or keyboard part appropriate to a style or song. Well, that is part of part of the plan of working...
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Post by 4real on Mar 15, 2011 18:02:30 GMT -5
Ok...so a bit of a late night session playing with my new toy/s here...getting a bit of 'glitching' while recording and still need to work out some methods for working these things. I set up a soundclick page...so audio only this time for those without the vid things I was trying to learn the 'beatcraft' drum machine. This is separate from mixcraft, can apply effects and all (though i left them out for this) and is not bad, easy to use but time consuming. In the end you render the drum track to a wave file and import into MC5 but then you can't really 'edit' it as you work on things...so really you need a bit of an idea where the tune is going...clearly I didn't...but good for working on ideas and it can be used to make loops, which I haven't gotten to yet, and work that way. Ok...so a bit of a demo of my strat as well, the behringer Acoustic Modeller effect...the bass synth is "crystal" and the piano 'pianissimo...excuse the stabbing on the basic casio there...I was to tired to do it more than once or edit the resulting midi...let alone work out some kind of 'guitar solo...LOL www.soundclick.com/petesrecordingexercises See "spy conga 01" So...basically, worked out some drum patterns, joined them all together, this inspired the basic chord feeling, very much 007 surf influenced as you will hear. Tried to use a different pickup setting to demo the strat. Recorded it through my fender HR deluxe with it's reverb, so another experiment and does sound much like it really does I guess. The distorted sound was 'reamped' through a marshal sim in one section. So a bit rough, but a worth while exercise...have a listen. As for the 'glitching', not sure what's going on there, doesn't effect the actual recording but it does throw you off the take when it happens. Didn't bother doing any real 'mixing' either to make everything sit together, but it is a start...MIDI is so much easier to work with than audio...it's no wonder that and samples and loops are taking over!
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 15, 2011 19:08:55 GMT -5
nice!
afa glitching, I guess i dont have to tell you make sure nothing (or only abso neccs) else is running in the background...The sampling bit rate and freq may need tweaked. I've read that its best to record at 48 or 44.1, 96mhz is problematic. Of course, you want to record at 24bit, but if you cant stop the glitching, might have to try 16bit. Hey, it was good enough for ADAT in the 90's.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 15, 2011 22:13:32 GMT -5
I've got everything turned off on my recording machine. Just went through the Services screen and disabled and turned off automatic start for everything I thought I could get away with. Print Spooler? Don't need you! Ethernet? Don't need you! Since it never has any direct contact with any other machine it doesn't need anti virus or spyware protection.
I'm afraid Pete is using his for other stuff though...
I'd guess the glitching is a buffer issue, or else a problem with the ASIO driver. I've got a PCI soundcard that just refuses to run on certain motherboards.
You did check to make sure it's not recording to your System drive?
My take on sample rate is that -for now anyway - the standard distibutions all require 44.1K. CD needs it. Most compression algorithms want to start from it. Many consumer systems won't play back anything higher. And sample rate conversion is nasty! I haven't done any listening tests for myself, but the analyses I've seen show all kinds of artifacts generated by the best of algorithms. If you're going to have to end up at 44.1K before it goes to your audience, then you're best off starting and staying there. (IMNSHO). Saves some processor power, RAM, and storage too.
Bitrate is a different issue. 16 bit can be good enough for a final mix of most things. It's better dynamic range than you'll ever get from analog tape. It's also still the standard for any distribution. It sure is nice having the 24 bits though when tracking and mixing since quieter elements and things like reverb tails can maintain more resolution and less distortion. There's also less of the (somewhat superstitious) feeling that you should "use all the bits" and record things at inappropriately high levels - often overdriving the analog chain preceding the converter.
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Post by 4real on Mar 16, 2011 9:58:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys...I think there may be a problem with that soundclick link...will find an alternative
I have some good ideas about why the glitching occurs, it's not a latency thing as the asio driver and interface work fine...just need to adjust the buffers I think and a few other things. I learned though that Mixcraft kind of anticipate some of this and the buffers for instance can be adjusted from inside the DAW which is neat.
I saw a good mixcraft vid tutorial that shows some obvious things to deal with this kind of thing and the machine should have plenty of guts to run thing ok if optimised...so a bit of tweaking is all.
I'm not sure if this a common feature of DAWs but the Mixcraft tutorial also shows a feature called "freeze' which will render a track, including any effects and automation and such, to a wave file...thus freeing considerable resources while you tinker with other tracks and freeze as many as you like...of course you can just as easily 'unfreeze' tracks to tinker with them some more. Good if you have a lot of tracks and VST's going or while recording other tracks and are going to mix things later.
I also need to develop other ways of working perhaps...it's all a learning process. I suspect too that there may be other things running unseen in the background that could be hogging resources. A more reasonable approach would be to perhaps reboot to maximise resources, disconnect the internet and run on the recording process.
Not entirely got the hang of these 'comp' tracks either, moving things around and keeping them in the same space in time is kind of tricky some times...hard to work out how to combine things into one cohesive track...but there should be a way there. It is quite different from having to play a continuous part though...there is a whole different approach to things and if it is purely a recorded music, it matters not how it was constructed if the end result serves the music. Things do tend to be better if at least it sounds 'playable' though.
Will work on the glitch solutions next time and perhaps use a pencil and paper to have more of a 'map' of things. Might try working with 'loops' or even try some sampler VSTs for drums...I could load the samples from Beatcraft for instance into a sampler and play them with midi perhaps...even bang them out on the old casio here!
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 16, 2011 10:30:27 GMT -5
I agree with your observations on getting the buffer settings correct. It took me a few months to find the happy medium of buffer settings versus just running too many .vst effects\tracks simultaneously.
And the SoundClick links should work after 48 hours. Their standard policy is to "review" new accounts.
HTC1
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 16, 2011 10:33:28 GMT -5
In most DAWs there's a way to constrain the movement to only up/down. In Sonar, at least you just hold down the Ctrl while dragging and it then can drag to new tracks or whatever and it stays at exactly the same time.
There's also usually some "Snap to Grid" thing which works if you make your cuts (or splits,or whatever your DAW calls it) and then drag, it'll always at least land on whatever beat division the grid is set to. Once you've moved them you can usually switch the snapping back off if you need things to overlap or switch back and forth off the beats.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 16, 2011 10:36:51 GMT -5
comping: see if your DAW has 'snap' or 'magnetism'. when you go to drag a piece to somewhere else, drag the edge of the clip right to the nearest beat, and it should 'snap' right on the beat. and when you drag that clip, you should be able to snap it right back on to the beat. Also, I find it handy to create new tracks to drag things to until I consolidate them later.
edit: lol ashcat! Simultaneous post!
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Post by 4real on Mar 16, 2011 19:13:55 GMT -5
Cool...yes there are a snap thing, possibly had it turned off because I recall moving a clip that must have had some sound before the beat or something...and they seem to allow for some 'overlap' of clips. Not everything is to a 'beat' in audio...but a bit of playing around there i think is all that's required. That ctrl thing is exactly the kind of tool I need...so will try that or ask how MC5 do it. The people at MC5 have a very good response to questions and seem keen to be getting info to further develop the product. Still can't work out why it doesn't embed that youtube link...still...that is a short vid from mixcraft's great series of short vids on all kinds of subjects...this one is 'optimizing your PC for use with MC5' and talks about latency issues and solutions and buffers and such. Also that MC5 has a meter that monitors mixcraft and the system use. Not quite the 'glitch sound' in the demos but I am sure that it is a similar thing. Also the 'send track' function will be useful and easier to understand from seeing it here...so there are plenty of 'solutions'. ... Will see about the link...looks like they didn't like me opening an new folder for the recording projects or the like...so might have to do it again...will attempt later today. ... The Beatcraft thing is another thing...it has a good intuitive interface, but much like a stand alone drum machine. The triplet feature is very cool though. But, I attempted to write every pattern myself into a library and piece it together that way and possibly not the best way to use the thing. There are some patterns in there I have yet to explore, but I think the way to use it perhaps is to make shorter 'loops' and piece them together in the DAW than to do an entire 'song' as one long 3min wave file on one track. Better I think to make a 'comp' tracks of sections so they can be moved around. So a good tool perhaps to making 'loops'...but not the level of integrations and separation that something MIDI would provide. I get the idea that this will be a new feature in the next version of MC. It is quite a good thing though for making loops though, and effectively it is a like a step sample trigger to 1/16th note triplets when you think about it...so as well as drum samples, it could be used to trigger any kind of sound and length of file and used a bit like a sample player in that way...so some interesting possibilities. I guess it is designed for a different way of working that I am not familiar with...so will have to explore next working with this idea of 'loops' and manipulating them as this is quite common and kind of unique to the digital environment as to what one can do. I know I came from an era when we'd try and do such things by literally cutting 1/4" tape!
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Post by 4real on Mar 19, 2011 23:48:57 GMT -5
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Post by roadtonever on Mar 20, 2011 9:23:36 GMT -5
Interesting little demo, will have to try out Beatcraft myself.
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Post by 4real on Mar 20, 2011 16:05:52 GMT -5
Interesting little demo, will have to try out Beatcraft myself. Thanks. Beatcraft is very easy and intuitive to use and more vesitile than many. You will probably find quite a few you tube demos, most of them kind of crappy, but look for the acoustica222 channel tutorials for it and mixcraft for some more tutorials perhaps... www.acoustica.com/beatcraft/index.htmThe demo is free for 14 days I think...product is about $40 You have a 'split screen", in the above they have the usual step GUI type thing. Press a key and it half lights green for a beat, press it twice and it goes full, press again to remove. This gives you two different velocities so you can make a slightly more human feel. Click the little down arrow on each beat and a little editing screen will open allowing you to select any velocity and adjust things like resonance or even reverse just that sound. It supports basically supports VST's and come with the obvious that can be applied to the whole sound...so you could use a big reverb on the snare alone say, although a lot of samples come pre processed. It does use samples, so the sounds are as good as you use...and it is a smaple player effectively, so you could add any sounds, make your own like prince (many of his big hits used things like sampled cardboard boxes) and such. You could create patterns and save them as samples and there is a library of 'beats' I have yet to explore. The triplet thing is very cool, might not suit a lot of music, but you just drag 8's or 16's triplet thing over the sound buttons and they are replaced with three instead of 4 or 2 16 beats. Then, once you are happy with a measure you save it and it will appear in the side box seen in the above pic to the right. To make a 'song' sequence, you just drag these to the lower sequencer window time line. It appears as a named jigsaw piece and you just fit them all together. Drag them around and arrange them as you please. Make as many pieces as you like...highlight a string of them and drag them about, copy them for a second verse, that kind of thing. You can even have multiple tracks...so in my demo, I used the conga part on one track and a normal drum kit on another. As many sounds in a kit, so I made a huge kit of percussions things like that bell as well as more normal sounds. You just drag samples to the step sequencer and it will create another step sequence track that can be used. ... The downside is that you are working completely independent from the DAW and tune. I kind of pieced together the drums and played along with the guitar to get an idea of sections. Then, you render the drum track and open it in a DAW track as a wav file. You can render individual patterns and though and arrange them as loops in the DAW. It is not MIDI, so it is kind of fixed as a wave file or string of loops. You can not for instance have your snare on a separate track and add another hit, or more likely add in a phil collins kind of gate to the snare alone after the fact. So, editing is not very practical once rendered. There could be work arounds, but could get tedious. But it is quick and intuitive to create something, even more so if you use patterns or from a library you have already created. Because of this and some features you can get a more realistic feel, probably hard to hear on this, but there are really soft kick beats in there and a touch of the 'swing' feel applied. Again, it sounds as good as the samples used in it. I'd kind of prefer to have separate wav's of each sound in separate tracks on in the DAW. There are always a few things that could be 'improved'...it would have been nice if you could choose a colour for the patterns so you could easily see which is which in the sequence for instance. The MIDI alternative is possible, I have yet to try these things, but you can get VST samplers and load in sounds and use a midi track to 'play' them. I suspect it might be a lot more work for the control that's offered, for many Beatcraft might be the better option. At the very least, you could modify beatcraft and re-render and replace the sketch track...or use the DAW to cut up the sequence and move parts about...or render the patterns individually and drag them around and copy as you choose. If one worked in loops like that, it is a good 'loop' creation tool for sure. There is no reason you couldn't load a guitar sound or lick into Beatcraft as a wav and have beatcraft trigger that if so inclined. At the moment though, I am still getting the hang of the programs and how they work and what they do. There is a tendency to overdo it and to use all the features perhaps...LOL...but it is a decent enough way to learn. I'm intending to do some more playing with BC today. One of the things I think I need to do is work out some better more organised ways of doing things and conventions, keep things simple from the start and then go back to edit patterns later perhaps going back to add ghost notes and velocity things later perhaps. Certainly it is easier than most hardware machines I have used, much the same thing, but the graphical interface makes a huge difference. I was using my BR-600 drum machine for jamming, this is a conventional and very good drum machine really. They have a free program from roland for the BR-900 and 600 to program it with a GUI and there may still be a role for that as well. ... Otherwise, the tune above is a demo of my strat of sorts and you get to hear that HOoP sound of the series combos in that 'funky section'...first time NxB HOoP and the second NxM HOoP...a much bigger louder sound than the straight OoP things and works well. The NxMxB is also heard on the answering low string riff which is a great sound for jazz like things or this where it has a bit of 'depth' perhaps. I tried to use a different selection of most of the repeating phrases as a demo. I also added the $40 Behringer Acoustic Modeller I got last year as an alternative to onboard piezo and I think this is a better alternative though a bit hissy. It can be quite affective though not an 'acoustic'...I just plugged it in here direct, so I could probably have gotten a better sound out of it. It shows though the benefits of a 'nutzy' guitar that this site encourages . For recording, you really do have some useful sounds at your disposal...my strat has over 30 selections effectively...so great for layering sounds and getting a completely different tone out of just one instrument even if difficult to do "live" or not so good as a single guitar for a whole song. A lot of the HOoP sounds are about as loud as a normal selection and far less 'scratchy' than the full OoP while suitably Lo-Fi. I dug up an old beat up condenser battery powered mic from my band days and used that to record the guitar amp...so the first time I've been able to record the actual sound of the amp. It creates a heap of problems with 'bleed through' from the monitors and will have to work that out. On my 'wish list' to buy is a decent all purpose mic...been looking at the Audio Technica 2035 at the moment...gets some fair reviews and a decent price can be found and can work well for vocals or instruments and amps and should power up ok with the UA-25 interface. I was GASsing for a decent MIDI keyboard controller, but my old casio has some advantages. It's cheap and basic and not velocity sensitive, but I am no keyboard player and perhaps sensitivity is not the most important thing, dynamics and timing can be edited later in the DAW. The thing is that It can play casio sounds and basic drums to practice away from the computer and that can be useful and a full size 61 note keyboard does take up a bit of room. It will get MIDI signals into the DAW through the interface with no problems, even if it is a no frills option. I've yet to try them out, but there are a lot of free mono guitar to midi VST programs that will translate single notes on the guitar to midi signals...so effectively a guitar synth or midi controller. This though could be good for something like a sax sound where expression and dynamics are more crucial. The sustainer guitar might be interesting too, being able to play long notes and to bloom into harmonics...so that is on my 'to do' list. I am amazed at the amount of VST's out there, many great free ones (check out the KVR site) and perhaps overdosed on them, a few decent tools used right are probably enough. My amp sim site in mixcraft is available free and they have a heap of different amps for more distorted sounds generally....not many decent 'clean' amps though. On the track about the distorted guitar was the amp (marshall type) applied to the real fender amps sound and not 'ideal' but works good enough without tweaking anything. It was interesting listening back to this how you steal things unconsciously though, even from things you don't really know how to play, but just heard. That 'funky' part I 'improvised' but sounds suspiciously like a part of 'blinded me with science' and the distorted part added as an afterthought a bit like toto's 'hold the line' or something...LOL...oh well! Anyway, long post on it, perhaps some of you more experienced guys can give tips on methods and such, but it is an evolving kind of process. As things become easier to work with, it is getting easier to be creative with it. I've been neglecting my guitar playing of late and stripping the fingertip callouses as a result from playing something like this even! Add this to playing the computer more than music and re learning some basic keyboard things...and you do feel a bit like you are starting from scratch again. Still, got to learn the tools and it is coming along...
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 20, 2011 18:28:52 GMT -5
Ready for the lamest trick ever?
Most DAWs have a track level parameter to transpose the MIDI input by semitones. Usually, this affects the input before it is passed on to whatever synth is playing in real time. If your keyboard parts are in basic keys (major or natural minor) you can play only white keys, and use this parameter to force it into whatever key you want.
I told you it was lame. I do it all the time.
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Post by 4real on Mar 20, 2011 20:38:07 GMT -5
Ready for the lamest trick ever? Most DAWs have a track level parameter to transpose the MIDI input by semitones. Usually, this affects the input before it is passed on to whatever synth is playing in real time. If your keyboard parts are in basic keys (major or natural minor) you can play only white keys, and use this parameter to force it into whatever key you want. I told you it was lame. I do it all the time. No, not lame...though complicated perhaps. My Casio has a 'transpose' function so it will play in any key while being still in C...if that's your chosen key...essentially doing the same thing and forcing the playback to a different key. Of course not everything stays in a given key and minor keys particularly use a few altered notes, so you can't always avoid the 'black notes' with anything but the most basic diatonic music. ... Many years ago I read an interview with the guitarist Steve Khan (steely dan and session player) and he was talking about his father, Sammy Cahn (nee cohen). He was nominated for 23 academy awards and wrote many famous songs for people like sinatra, film and broadway... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammy_Cahn...songs like '3 coins in the fountain' and 'come fly with me'... He worked in the old tin pan alley song-writing factories churning out songs and had written a few notable post war hits. Any way's it affected me quite a bit, he only ever wrote in one key, F! Apparently this strategy was not unique! Thinking and reading about it I thought it was a really interesting and valid strategy. Essentially any thing can be transposed to any key, and as you say, you can force things in midi in various ways...so that is not an issue. DAW's like mixcraft can even transpose audio loops to some degree without changing speed or sounding too chipmunk like and is commonly done..handy for guitar where certain chords and open strings might be an advantage or essential to a riff...but not the right key for a singer. One of the 'advantages' given, especially for a song writer working with a keyboard was not that it is just simpler to think always in one key and that in C, F will always be the IV chord, G the V, etc. Even those tunes as in those days that might modulate, in one key, you always know where you are headed to and what those things sound like and fall easily under the fingers. Now these guys could play in any key on the piano perfectly well...Why F I'm not sure...regardless. The rational really was, that by writing in one key, say C, you will notice instantly if and when you are just rehashing ideas and force you to add a bit of a twist to things to not sound too derivative. I think this is a very valid point and concentrates things on the essentials and not kidding yourself that by changing key but the same sequence, you are some how writing something 'new'. So, being semi restricted to playing in one key like C may not make you much of a keyboard player, but it may make you a better 'composer' and there is a lot to be said for that. You can still use all the, keys black and white in C or any other key. I haven't touched a keyboard for ages, I did have to learn all my cadences and traditional theory on the things and I am able to construct chords fairly intuitively. Never learned scales or proper fingering on it. You can record the left and right hands separately for a better recorded part, my keyboard is going to give out all even notes no matter how i hit it, these velocities can be edited later and in mixcraft, graphically, not just note by note so with whole passages. Quantisizing can fix timing and there is always the eraser and editing with MIDI and Mixcraft and others even in real notation. Tempo is simply a matter of changing the metronome and even things like appreciation can and is often done with a VST arpeggiator if required. Many well known film composers these days, even work in this kind of way with the computers keyboard I've heard...but the piano keyboard really is something of a 'musical typewriter' in some respects. I'd be wanting something with more than 25 keys as many people use, my cheap casio has 61. It is a good tool though, and teaching myself a few basic things on the keyboard. It is a lot easier than guitar to think about voice leading for example rather than chords as lego like building blocks. There is always things like Jammer and BiaB that a lot of professionals use to get a basic 'track' down...a lot of 'pop and rock' is done purely off of an interesting 'beat'...the last audio thing I did was typical of that approach to writing and the entire thing is Eminor and created from that conga thing I made with the drum machine. It is a different kind of territory all this technology and music making. One of those Thomas Dolby clips, quite a good keyboard player...he cut the basic tracks...then re did the piano solo in midi to tweak it to be 'perfect'. Reminds me also that a lot of records take for ever to perfect and while 'old school' and has it's merits, expecting to be able to think of something new and effectively play all the instruments in a fashion, and mix everything in one evening is a bit unrealistic to create some kind of 'masterpiece' by yourself in an evening! It might need to go through a bunch of 'sketches' and variations before you get something really worth while taking the best of ideas from the various versions. The other thing with MIDI is also, you can take and modify any number of free MIDI files played by decent musicians, many are very good...and alter, transpose, change chords from major to minor...anything really...all without touching a real keyboard or having to play anything or having to learn the conventions of such things. This is also a bit similar to some common 'song writing' techniques. I believe a lot of Abba hits were done by playing well known chord sequences and writing new melodies and altering things till they became a new song. After all, in most pop music, the sequences are in essence much of a muchness and it is only the small differences that make for the diversity people want to here. We have not seen the kind of transitions that occurred over hundreds of years in classical art music towards ever more complex chromatic harmony or even rhythmic diversity, in many ways quite the opposite. At the present time I think that a lot of the diversity is created through different combinations of tones and distinctive voices as much as anything...and quite a bit in production as well I suppose. This occured in Jazz to some extent, but since the bop era and mile's breakaway cool jazz kind of blue approach, things have got simpler and more open...perhaps not changing chord or tonality or sudden juxtapositions and more accent perhaps on phrasing and tone...at least from a compositional point of view. ... So, yep...I will still dabble with a few different keys, but C is not bad for major keys and you know when you play a black note you are altering a chord at least. Minor keys, I have a few I like. In this tune it was Emin, or essentially G major...so only an F# in there...but with some keys there are some characteristic 'riffs' it seems for some piano styles...not that different from the guitar having certain sounds to certain keys. It is easy to do those 'modal things' too with this kind of thing too. If you play all white notes in G for instance, you are going to automatically be playing Mixolydian melodies and sequences, D Dorian minor.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 20, 2011 21:28:21 GMT -5
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Post by 4real on Mar 20, 2011 23:28:45 GMT -5
Great bass and song there JFP. Yes, black keys are pentatonics and as we know, always sound good. Eb Minor or F# major...but any key will create a great pentatonic mode due to a lack of half steps. Playing stuff with pairs of notes with one black key between give an instant 'oriental sound', similarly two black keys between...can't make a mistake...instant parallel harmony...LOL.
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Post by 4real on Mar 24, 2011 8:11:12 GMT -5
Ready for the lamest trick ever? Most DAWs have a track level parameter to transpose the MIDI input by semitones. Usually, this affects the input before it is passed on to whatever synth is playing in real time. If your keyboard parts are in basic keys (major or natural minor) you can play only white keys, and use this parameter to force it into whatever key you want. I told you it was lame. I do it all the time. Actually, this is going to be handy after all, my keyboard can transpose internal sounds, but not the midi signal...doh. Something to consider if I upgrade some time. Have ordered a decent mic though. The 'glitching' appears not to be the program or the computer but the UA-25 interface, well...specifically the win 7 64bit ASIO driver and just generally. When it works it is fine, but it is very temperamental and often needs to reboot and can freeze or even crash the program when it goes wrong....hmmm.... Otherwise, had a fun evening playing with all the amazing sounds in this thing and getting better at the keyboard as I go. The 'beats' are still getting to me...it is really like trying to learn 100 different instruments at the same time...let alone trying to fit everything together. Still, learning a lot and a lot more to go. I've kind of getting the hang of Beatcraft but I suspect that MIDI drums are the way to go....lots more flexibility and easy enough to duplicate a track to single out a single instrument if required. I need to perhaps get more of a handle on VST samplers and build a basic kit from that. The other thing is to work with loops, but things seem to sound very generic. At least with MIDI there are lots of places one could 'rip off' sequences and cut and paste and edit to taste...let alone things sequencers that can piece things together should i end up going that way. A lot of music these days seems to work with textures and beats...shame, my knowledge is mainly in harmony and melody...but may need a bit of balancing out. The keyboard is an amazing tool though...and found some amazing instruments both synths and more traditional and exotic VSTi's. Some are of course a bit quirky, but they are free! The appreciated things are kind of neat but can be a bit over done. Not getting much guitar playing done at all though, but i'll get back to it soon enough I imagine. Want to try out some of these software audio signal to midi things as that might be a bit more natural sounding than my hack keyboard smacking. Today's order is for a cheap 'sustain' pedal for the keys as it's driving my a little bonkers trying to play without something to hold the notes over while shifting positions oh...and the Mic is an Audio Technica 2035...the aussie dollar is on a par with the USA so even with post it is a lot cheaper than buying things here. This will help to do a few things, vocals and mic-ing acoustics and the guitar amps...maybe a bit of sampling even. Should be ok if the interface calms down a bit.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 24, 2011 10:18:46 GMT -5
Might be worth a check on this program called ASIO4All. Not sure they've got one for 7/64 yet, and I don't know for sure that it will help, but it can't hurt to check. Just google it.
Sustain pedal is a standard Continuous Controller message outlined in the General Midi spec. That doesn't necessarily mean that every VSTi will respond to it. Those that will, though, will always have it on the same CC. If you can't make a "pedal" (a momentary NO switch) work, you can usually draw it in. Once the synth sees a "sustain on" message, it should continue until it sees an "off" or until the synth is re-initialized.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 24, 2011 10:25:31 GMT -5
Have you seen the DSK synths yet? Some really good sounding things from pianos to brass to world strings. All donationware, which means as free as your conscience will allow.
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Post by 4real on Mar 24, 2011 17:30:56 GMT -5
Cheers...yes the DSK's are kind of remarkable, I got 'em all...LOL. Things like "indian dream'" and I was enjoying the 'harmonica' in beta, till something crashed on me...LOL. Some vst's are amazing and at the moment need to rely a bit on the presets to get a sense of what they can do...the juno clones can sound fantastic to my ear, particularly liked something called SxMJune or 'Sixith Month June' from elektrostudio...they have a bunch of nice things. ... If after guitar amp sims, the 'suite' in Mixcraft is available free...in fact they seem to have some more free amps including this.... Might appeal to Nutz, you can mix and match to your taste. www.acmebargig.com/product/shred/They also make this thing called the "red shift"... I've too many to have tried everything including this...some are pretty funny, some a little X rated with humour, others are just weird noisemakers and some I still have no idea exactly how they are supposed to work...buy it is a whole other world ain't it... As with most amp sims though, tend to be excessively aimed at distorted 'metal' tones, but the "quarter" sounds quite good for clean sounds. Studio devil have a free version of their amp sim...some of their demo clips are pretty impressive... ... Tapeotronic is a fairly convincing mellotron and there are a few mouse thremin controllers about that work if wanting something 'old school'. Rythumus is a weird kind of vintage rhythm box like you'd find on an organ. ... I know the sustain pedal I could have made and maybe should have, you can get a nice one for $13 bucks on amazon but everyone is tending towards exorbitant postal charges, far more than the product itself it seems...but still...I live on an island so they got me. It is kind of important so I don't see why it's left off these machines...It will be useful if I upgrade to a proper Velocity sensitive controller. As it is the cheap casio is doing a good job really and there are a few benefits...you don't need the computer to play it for instance. But a lot of keyboard stuff you do need to touch the pedal to keep a note ringing so you can let go and move to another key then let it go. I know it is probably controllable after the fact, but makes it difficult to play...LOL. I got a nice book called ""how to write songs on keyboards" by rick rooksby (also does a guitar version) and it is very good including a CD of the examples. Anyone interested in how chords fit together (the I,IV,V kind of approach) without heavy theory and some cool common simple techniques and no note reading required should consider it. It doesn't pretend to teach how to play the piano, but simply how to play chords and get around very much in the way guitar players learn and play. I did learn a bit from music school of course, no 'technique' on the thing and have been corrupted a bit by traditional harmony...there are some great things about theory, but a lot of music really ignores that kind of voice leading. Anyway, a good instrument and kind of a necessary evil for inputting data...reflects back into the guitar playing and vis a vis. ... Still finding my way and the possibilities kind of alters your perspective and 'philosophy' about music creation. There is a need for more music now than ever but more people making things than ever before. However, a lot is kind of arranging loops of sounds, beats and textures than creating much in the way of songs and melodies, can be seductive. It is a bit like YouTube...99% crap then there are the occasional gems. Some of the more innovative things seem to be those that can throw out a lot of the rules and use these things in new and interesting ways. But then, and I am going through some of that, much as many of us do with guitar modding, it is easy to get so intrigued with the possibilities you don't get around to playing music with the tools at hand.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 24, 2011 18:38:24 GMT -5
[M]y keyboard can transpose internal sounds, but not the midi signal...doh. Don't be so quick on the circular file there..... Just because there's no front panel switch to accomplish transposition, that doesn't mean that the MIDI interepreter under the hood can't do it at all. Indeed, I'll bet if you look in the manual (or possibly in some addendum), you'll find a list of MIDI commands that can be input to the machine. Not all devices can handle, or even recognize, all MIDI commands, but thankfully the standard calls for "graceful failure", should you send a command that isn't part of the machine's repertoire. By the same token, not all machines implement their partial MIDI command sets the same way. That means that you may end up juggling commands with a "translator", to make things happen the way you want to have 'em happen. If nothing else, your computer and a program called MIDI-Ox can do all of that for you. But it is not optional to be unprepared for this. It is mandatory that you have thorough documentation, or at least a reference chart, in order to make A work with B, and the both of them to work with C. If you guess at what a particular MIDI command might do, you're on your own! HTH sumgai
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