HHH Strat, total rookie, need help please!

[axeman11]

Okay, so I am in the process of building a strat, I have 3 dimarzio pickups all of which are four wire, a 5-way switch, two p/p pots, and a fender tone knob. I want to wire the first p/p pot to be a volume for the neck and bridge, while having the middle p/p pot be a volume for the middle pickup. I would like to have the 5-way switch just be the standard switching between the pickups, and would like to be able to do some cool stuff with my push/pull pots, such as have one switch all the pickups from series/parallel and have the other p/p pot do coil cutting or something. The ideas for the push pull pots are not set in stone, so if you have a better idea it would be much appreciated. And thanks in advance for any help given!

[JohnH]

Welcome to GN2.

with the two pole switches that come on push/pull pots, you can either turn one pickup from series to parallel, or two pickups from series humbucker to single coil.

My suggestion (which would be simple and very versatile):

Two volume controls, but I suggest one for the bridge and one for neck and middle (so you can set a lead and a rythym volume), one tone control. One p/p switch cuts both neck and middle to single coil. The other p/p turns the bridge from series to parallel (or single if you prefer).

You may want to get a dual-gang pot for the tone control, as on this design here:
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=3157
The need for that depends on if you play with both tone and volume reduced, otherwise, you can use a standard single tone pot.

J

[axeman11]

JohnH, thank you for the welcome, you guys are all so nice and so smart!

Anyways, I like your idea for the two volume pots better, and also the fender tone knob that I ordered was a fender TBX tone knob, which I'm pretty sure is that dual-gang pot that your talking about. And the idea for the two push/pull pots sounds good, and simple enough so that even I might be able to do it! The question is what would it look like, in a diagram?

[newey]

Axe11-

Thanks for reposting this here. And Welcome again!

If recollection still serves me, the TBX is indeed a dual-gang pot, but one which has a center detent. It also has one element valued at 500KΩ, and the other at 1MΩ.

While these differences don't preclude using the TBX for a master tone control, it may not be optimal. Or, perhaps it is what you want- the 1M element could be used to make the neck pup relatively brighter. But consider these things so you go in with your eyes open.

Regular dual-gang pots (w/o a center detent and with equal-value elements, either 250K or 500K) are available. You could save the TBX pot to be used as intended- as a treble and bass cut- in another project.

[JohnH]

Feb 18, 2011 21:47:05 GMT -5 axeman11 said:

JohnH, thank you for the welcome, you guys are all so nice and so smart!

Anyways, I like your idea for the two volume pots better, and also the fender tone knob that I ordered was a fender TBX tone knob, which I'm pretty sure is that dual-gang pot that your talking about. And the idea for the two push/pull pots sounds good, and simple enough so that even I might be able to do it! The question is what would it look like, in a diagram?

It needent be too hard a diagram. This is one with single coils, using two volumes on a strat.


It can be adapted to do the push/pull functions, with humbuckers, that we're discussing. I can do that if you wish.

The drawing comes from this thread:

Strat with Two Volume Controls

You can see the dual-gang tone pot, but its a standard one not a TBX. So I'd suggest keeping the TBX for another project. If you really want to use it, it can go just before the jack, after the switching and volume controls. Its not ideal there, but some guitars with 2V and 1T do this (eg Gibson Explorer)

John

[axeman11]

Hey,

If you could make a diagram to follow it would be much appreciated! Also, I will definitely get a 500k dual-gang pot, I just can't find one anywhere!

Also I looked at that link you posted and saw a diagram you made with two push pull pots, and it looks pretty freakin sweet! But would I be able to do that?

[axeman11]

Or could I even do the last one posted, with an extra switch?

[newey]

500K Dual Gang pots:

www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV24BF-10-15R1-A500K/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtxdMMi52izyvKN9%252b8W2lLSr%252bmDWT8pyW4%3d

These are the solid shaft variety, not sure if Mouser has split shaft ones.

[JohnH]

Newey - good point to watch for about the shaft types. If you want to use a classic looking Strat knob, it needs a split shaft/spline type, rather than a plain shaft. And i think there are two versions of the size of the splines, based on US or Asia. Just something to consider, and if you want to keep the look.

As to switching possibilities, everything is possible. With HHH you have six coils and there at less a zillion possible options for how to connect them (count ém!).

So it really boils down to how many switches and functions you want, as against the playability, appearance and ease of building. The following can be done on two pole switches, either separate toggles or as Push/pull:

Coil cut of one or two pickups
Series/parallel of the coils of one pickup
Series/parallel between two pickups, or groups of pickups
phase reverse of one pickup, to make out-of-phase combos when combined with others

Ive listed those in order of what I reckon are most useful, just IMO, and so the option we discussed above picks up the best two.

Also, if you can look at any of the Strat or SSS diagrams in the schematics section, and adapt them to HHH.

Just as an aside, heres a different idea that I got interested in, for HHH on a Strat:
i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww316/JohnDHewitt/GN2/3HB3x5-121209.gif

Basically, the 5-way is replaced with a super-switch (looks the same from outside), and it is used to pick one of 5 adjacent pairs of coils, starting from both bridge coils, then a bridge and a middle, both middles etc. they needn't be adjacent pairs, it could be configured for any 5 coil pairs. The pp switches then select either series or parallel of the selected coils, or just one of them.

Conclusion of all that - over to you. Personally, I think Id stick with the first option, maybe with one extra switch for series/parallel if you are keen.


John

[axeman11]

Yeah the first option sounds better to me as well. Also, in the first diagram posted are the red and purple wires coming from the pickups + and -, if so then where would I put the other two wires that are for the coils of the pickup? and also are the yellow things tone caps, and are there four? and then what are the orange things? Thanks again for all the help!

[axeman11]

Also is this the kind of pot? www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-1699/DOUBLE-GANGED-VARIABLE-RESISTOR/Detail

[JohnH]

That dual gang pot looks fine!

On the diagram, the yellow things are capacitors. I drew them like that because the ones i buy look like that, but any style with the right values will work.

If we are decided on the first option, I can add the two extra push/pull switches, and draw the pickups in with all the wires suitably connected with Dimarzio wire colours

cheers

John

[newey]

axeman-

Those pots would likely work, although they have the PC pins instead of solder lugs. It may be difficult to solder to the pins. Also not sure on the shaft- 5.5mm sounds too small, and JohnH is right, there's 2 types of knurling. I'd double-check the shaft dia. against the std Strat pot specs.

In JohnH's first diagram, yes, the red and purple are the + and - of each of the pickups. We'd have to convert that diagram for use with your HBs.

If you do not split the coils of any of the HBs, then the diagram works fine. The 2 HB coils are then joined together in series, and the + and - can be treated as if they were single-coils for wiring purposes.

If you want to use push/pulls to split the HBs as JohnH suggested, well, that'll mean a new diagram. . .

The yellow things are indeed the tone caps, values unspecified. Note that the dual-gang tone pot allows for 2 different cap values to be used, one for each half of the pot.

The yellow and orange things together make a "treble bleed" circuit; there's one on each of the volume controls. This works to preserve treble response as the volume control is reduced, and it a popular mod around here. It makes the Vol controls a lot more useful IMO.

[JohnH]

diagram is done but needs a check before posting, so Ill be able to post it tomorrow
J

[Yew]

Just dont forget to post some pics when you are done!

[JohnH]

Here is the diagram, I hope its all clear.


Just a few things to note:

• The push/pull switches are shown off the side of the pots instead of the back of them, to make the wires clearer. The side nearest the pot is the same is the one against the back of the pot.
  
• I kept with the convention of showing the grounds on the back of a pot case. Actually, on a p/p pot there is usually a lug as part of the casing, on the top of the switch and its usually an easier place to solder too. You can use that instead of the pot case

Good luck

J.

[newey]

Looks good, John!

Please repost that in the schematics- it's a usefel variation on your Dual Vol Strat, and we don't have many HHH options there.

[axeman11]

This is sweet, and are there any specific tone caps that you guys would recommend? Like a certain one for the yellow ones and a certain one for the orange ones? Also Thanks a lot for all the help!

[JohnH]

Feb 21, 2011 6:56:51 GMT -5 newey said:

Looks good, John!

Please repost that in the schematics- it's a usefel variation on your Dual Vol Strat, and we don't have many HHH options there.

I'd already done so, its added to the first post of the 2 Vol Strat. I might edit the title to show that there are SSS, HSS and HHH versions there.

axeman - the orange things are the 150k resistors. Any type and power rating is fine, but 1/4W is the usual rating for normal small ones. Metal film ones cost a few cents more, but you wont hera a difference. For the caps, any style and make is fine. I usually buy film caps of some kind but its not critical, except that tend not to buy ceramic disc caps.

BTW 22nF = 0.022uF, also, 1nF = 1000pF
cheers
John

[axeman11]

Okay so for the orange ones is this one good?

www.fpietronics.com/pd-150k-ohm-14w-5-carbon-film-resistor-rga.cfm

And for the other one for the treble bleed is this one good?

www.protostack.com/passive-components/capacitors/capacitor-resin-dipped-ceramic-50v-1nf

And for the ones on the tone pot are these good?

www.amazon.com/Electrolytic-Guitar-Amp-Capacitor-22uF/dp/B004GW1SAE

Also if I have to of the same cap on the dual-gang tone pot will it still be able to roll of treble one way and roll of bass the other way?

[ashcatlt]

The tone cap you've linked to is 1000x too big. It'll roll off all of the audible frequncies from the guitar when turned down. The first clue was where it says "electrolytic".

[axeman11]

Ok, ok, so forget about those other ones, what about these

www.thevintagesound.com/store/carbon-comp-12w-150k-resistor-p-801.html

www.thevintagesound.com/store/orange-drop-001uf-600v-p-721.html

www.thevintagesound.com/store/orange-drop-0022uf-600v-p-722.html

Are those good?

[axeman11]

Also if I wanted to wire the neck and middle pickup so that the coil cut cuts the one with the black wire, can I just do what you did on the neck pickup to the middle pickup as well?

[newey]

JohnH's scheme selects different coils from the neck and middle so they will be hum-cancelling. If you don't want that, yes, you could just wire both pickups the same way- but why wouldn't you want them hum-cancelling?

The resistors and caps you linked to are fine, except for the prices.

Check out these from Mouser for the .022 tone caps- $0.33 each, even cheaper if you buy 10 or more.

The other parts can be had at similar savings. I've ordered from Mouser a lot, and their service is excellent.

Check our Links page, under "References", for links to Mouser and other OEM parts suppliers, these guys do huge volumes compared to guitar parts suppliers- and can offer pricing to reflect that.

[axeman11]

Hey so I got the fender TBX tone control in today and the ratings on the pots are actually 250k and 1M, should I still not use it?

[JohnH]

I dont think a TBX is ideal for this guitar - id save it for another. If you chose to try it, cross out the dual gang pot and tone caps, and put the whole TBX shebang across the ground and main output lugs (ie, to the wire that goes ty the jack output. Make sure you can remove it later!