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Post by darkavenger on Feb 27, 2011 20:50:49 GMT -5
I have a jag with 2 humbuckers, 2 volume, 2 tone, and 4 on/off switches. I want to wire this so the volume tone act gibson style, 2 switches turn the pups on/off while the other two act as a series/parallel and coil tap. I dont think theres a simple way to have a master series parallel coil tap, so right now I plan on assigning them to the bridge pup. Can anyone help me with the wire diagram?
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Post by newey on Feb 27, 2011 21:58:21 GMT -5
I'll admit to not having seen a Jaguar with individual V & T pots, nor have I seen 4 on-off switches on one. Usually, it has 3 slide switches, one each for on/off on each pickup, and a master kill switch. Then additional slide switches for the tone circuitry are mounted above the strings.
Is this an actual Jaguar? Or a clone of some sort?
I ask because it would be helpful to know how it's wired now. In particular, we need to know what type of switches you have at present. "On/Off switches" could be any number of things. They might be single pole switches, in which case they could not be used for series/parallel.
And if they are truly "On-Off" (meaning no internal connection between one set of lugs and the commons), that's no good either.
You'll need DPDT On-On switches to do the series/parallel; coil cut can be done with a single pole On-Off.
What about them does not act Gibson-style presently? You have a V and T for each pickup, right?
You can use a single DPDT switch to do intra-pickup series/parallel, for either the neck pickup or for the bridge pickup, or you can use the same switch to do inter-pickup (i.e., "master") series/parallel.
Another DPDT switch can be used to simultaneously cut a coil from both pickups (and can be set up so as to maintain hum-cancellation). Or, if you wish, it can just do it on one pickup.
Once we nail down exactly what you have now, and what you want, then we can help with a diagram.
EDIT:And, where are my manners?
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2, DA!
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Post by darkavenger on Feb 27, 2011 22:14:30 GMT -5
There are 4 DPDT on-on switches with Seymour color scheme pups. I copied the series/parallel switch from Seymour Duncan, which is tapped into so when in series, the red and white wire connect to ground creating the coil tap.
The way its wired now,
neck humbucker (series) >v/t > on/off > jack
Bridge humbuckers > series/parallel > (coil tap) > v/t > on/off > jack
My issue seems to be that the series/parallel switch only works in the parallel position (so no series OR coil tap) AND when both pups are on, the vol/tone from each pup interact oddly.
For testing purposes, the coil tap switch is off, so nothing should be going through it. I can't find any visible shorting happening, and if either pup is on by itself, it sounds good.
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Post by newey on Feb 27, 2011 22:45:26 GMT -5
DA-
I was thinking you had one of the HH Jags without the regular Jag wiring found on the original SC models- I had forgotten that the SC Jags had 2 thumbwheel controls along the edge of the pickguard, for neck pup V & T. Is this what you mean when you say it has 2 Vol and 2 Tones?
If so, those were wired so that the thumbwheels controlled only the neck, with the regular V and T pots being Master V and T. If so, you can wire it more like a Gibson by making the Master V and T work only on the bridge, keeping the Vol and tone for the neck.
As far as your series/parallel switch, please show us the diagram you used to wire this up. It may also be helpful to post some close-up pix of your wiring, if they're in good focus.
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Post by darkavenger on Feb 27, 2011 23:57:26 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Feb 28, 2011 0:11:33 GMT -5
The diagram for the series/parallel and the coil cut switch looks OK. Double check for a bad connection on the series side of that switch.
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Post by darkavenger on Feb 28, 2011 1:42:16 GMT -5
ok i think i got the series parallel issue, but when both pups are on, why does turning the neck vol down all the way also silent the bridge pick up?
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Post by newey on Feb 28, 2011 7:10:41 GMT -5
Glad you got it working, darkavenger!
Ever play a Les Paul? You now have wired your controls like an LP has them, and what you're experiencing is normal behavior.
With 2 volume pots, and with the selector switch in the middle position, both volume controls are connected together in parallel, and they interact with each other as a result. There is no easy way to get around this behavior.
Which reminds me (if any of you Nutz are up for it) we could use a thread on the different ways of wiring V and T controls, with diagrams explaining the differences. JohnH's discourse on Modern and '50s Wiring is a start on this, but not the full story. This should go in the Modules section for reference.
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Post by lpf3 on Feb 28, 2011 8:40:05 GMT -5
newey wrote:
I don't know if this qualifies, or if it's been discussed here before; but this is a simple mod that to my ears does make a difference.
Every diagram I've seen shows running the wire from the input lug of the vol. pot to the input lug of the tone pot. Try running the wire from the output lug of the vol. pot to the input of the tone pot.
I saw this in an issue of Premiere Guitar and I think it does make a difference. I've always thought of the tone cut as being "all or nothing" and I never used it - this seems to make the tone cut more variable & to me, more useful.
I don't really have time to draw one of my "stick people" diagrams right now, but this one is pretty simple & probably doesn't need one.....
-lpf3
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Feb 28, 2011 18:04:08 GMT -5
I was trying to do the same think, kinda
only i would keep the rhythm for the neck, nice and wooly with a 50k tone pot, and also use it for v/t control of the neck when in series a la Broadbucking
and use the lead circuit for bridge, sereis/parallel and neck
The jag is a modders dream, comes with four on/on switches (three are true on/off), two volumes and two tones
you can also use on/off/on dp3t center off slide switches
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Post by darkavenger on Feb 28, 2011 23:10:56 GMT -5
No! My pickup is shorting out somewhere!
Atleast that explain some things... Thanks for the help!
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 1, 2011 0:33:35 GMT -5
The black and white coil is broken, hence why I only got a signal in parallel. I guess its back to the drawing board. My new idea, once the pup is replaced, which is actually my old idea, is this setup. 2 volume 2 tone, master series parallel, master coil split, and when both coils are off, they would be on but out of phase. I dont remember where I found this idea, but heres my artistic rendition img251.imageshack.us/img251/7371/29747047.jpg |
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 1, 2011 2:28:30 GMT -5
changed the master to control just the bottom, appears to work, I'll test it on the guitar tomorrow
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Post by newey on Mar 1, 2011 5:35:32 GMT -5
DA-
Sorry, but your diagram is a bit too much of a "back of the envelope" rendition for me to follow.
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Mar 1, 2011 9:18:08 GMT -5
funny enough i can read the "back of the envelope" drawing
perhaps you could redraw this in a neater form for the other readers
"and when both coils are off, they would be on but out of phase"
both pups out of phase, that puts them both back in phase, I only see one phase switch...
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 2, 2011 2:03:18 GMT -5
Now that I have a little confidence back after my lil dead pup fiasco, let me explain how this works.
First, you must have 2 on/off switches for two pickups(single or humbuckers) Normally, you might have a spot when both switches are off, no signal is reaching the amp. By doing a little bit of rerouting of the grounding(careful of vol/tone), you can be left with 2 pickups where both or either are on and sound normal, but when BOTH are off, they will become out of phase with each other.
Grounding Routing
pup1 on; pup2 off
pup1 (+Jack) (-ground)
pup2 (+disconnected) (-Jack ,no signal to jack/no ground)
pup1 off; pup2 on
pup1 (+disconnect [at pup2 selector]) (-ground)
pup2 (+jack) (-ground)
For the interesting one
pup1 off; pup2 off
pup1 (+ goes to pup2 +) (-ground)
pup2 (+ goes to pup1 +) (-jack)
For my setup, this couldnt work better. Since being out of phase means the two signals from each pickup are being partially cancelled out by each other, having a coil tap and series parallel just in the bridge opens up a lot of variation by changing how much of the signal is being cancelled out. Having both in series while out of phase produces a weak fender-like twang because most of the signal is cancelled (like cancels like). But having a series humbucker in the neck and a single coil in the bridge produces a warmer but still twangy sound.
I've never gotten to play an out of phase guitar before, but with all the options at my fingertips, I'm in love. And I still have every other combo I want a flick of a switch away.
I'll post a proper wiring diagram tomorrow.
Is there a place I should post this too? I've been searching everywhere for this diagram and I've found many other searching for this or similar, but I never found a solution.
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Post by newey on Mar 2, 2011 6:20:50 GMT -5
DA- OK, that explains things a bit better. I was thrown off by your statement that began "When both are off . . ."  Anyway, what you have is a variation on what we have called "binary tree switching", a scheme usually used to get A / A + B / A * B / B out of 2 switches. Here's the late ChrisK's rendering of the concept:  As you've discovered, OOP works best when the coils in question are dissimilar. And series OOP is more useful than parallel OOP. Finished diagrams (and/or schematics) are to be posted in the schematics sub-boards. Use "General Schematics" for full designs, and "Design Modules" for diagrams of just the switching module, for example. You should post your final diagram there, since this is a neat variation on the binary tree scheme. Your post there should also indicate whether the design has actually been built and tested or not (obviously yours has . . ). We also encourage the posting of samples of the various sounds you've achieved in "Sound Samples". |
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 3, 2011 0:16:51 GMT -5
Ok, sounds good! no pun intended... Sorry, I havent slept in quiet awhile now and I just redrew this from memory. I believe this is correct, someone should quickly double check tho. I need to finish setting up my guitar tomorrow, but preliminary sounds amazing. I have a warm bright pickup in the neck and a high output crunchy pickup in the bridge, I'm really loving the out of phase settings. almost forgot to post the diagram... woah. tired. img109.imageshack.us/img109/1892/scan0001ni.jpg |
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Mar 4, 2011 10:54:59 GMT -5
Just posted this since I have a Jag as well, and have seen lots of overly complicated wiring. Using the above switching logic it cleans it up and help get what you want. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=modules&action=display&thread=5545&page=1I like the both off OoP thing you got, maybe it could be worked in. Couple other options like a on-off-on slider switch for the neck on-off-OoP, a DP3T on-on-on toggle (get a bat wing) for the bridge for humbucker/tap/parallel, or use the bridge's tone pot for a combination tap and hum/parallel. With a p/p pot, at 10 it taps the coil, 9 and down is humbucker with normal tone, pull the pot and the pup's coils are parallel and the tone works normally. I'm still waiting for my bridge pup and mint p'guard  maybe this afternoon... |
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 4, 2011 12:11:46 GMT -5
If your not too attached to 2 v/t, use the top two dial pots as spin-a-split coil taps. That way you could get the most out of the wiring options using only the stock hardware. I opted for the simpler, less overwhelming setup, but now I'm not sure I'm not gonna switch it to this setup.
Neck AND Bridge pups: series/parallel, coil blend, out of phase/on/off
1 Volume 1 Tone
I kind of want to get a little deeper into the whole OOP thing, I wasnt sure I was going to like it seeing I've never heard it. It has to be one of the most under rated settings. I guess its just not the most practical setup in most situations...
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Post by sumgai on Mar 4, 2011 12:55:19 GMT -5
DA,
Jaguars, and Jazzmasters too, have their Neck pickups located a little differently than other Fender models. You may find that the OoP sound is to your liking, or not, but it isn't the same OoP sound as Strats/Teles/dual Hb's/etc.
I've no opinion on that particular tone, and in fact I can't recall the last time I heard it, live or recorded. This is just a word of caution, that's all.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Mar 4, 2011 12:59:49 GMT -5
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Post by darkavenger on Mar 6, 2011 13:16:10 GMT -5
Just a bit on the OoP options, I wasn't aware the jag had different pickup locations, either way, since there are so many options to mess with, I dont see that making as much difference as the various of OoP, such as series humbucking OoP with a single coil. Something else that would change the sound drastically would be the type of pickup you have installed. I have a warm mellow pup in the neck and a crunchy high output in the bridge, which gives me a large difference in signal output, thus not as much signal gets cancelled.
I will record some samples of OoP because I can't really find any good examples out there, and the ones I did find barely touch on the possibilities of variations of OoP. I've been REALLY busy, but hopefully by weeks end I can get it up.
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