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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 15:35:47 GMT -5
Hello just copying from guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pup&action=display&thread=5522since i think this problem deserved a separate thread. I had those symptoms : initially, and after the rails installation i had 1) a) the tremolo wire unconnected b) the dimarzio bare wire to the hot (that was obviously very wrong, i was just anxious to listen to the rails, that i did everything in full throat speed, cause we had to go somewhere with the family and i wanted to hear them before our departure c) the bare wires of the rails were taped along with the white-red wires effect : ALL pups buzzed *hard* when touched with bare hand 2) a) the tremolo wire unconnected b) the dimarzio bare wire correctly to the ground c) the rails bare wire untaped from red-white and (correctly??) soldered to the ground effect : - dimarzio behaved perfectly, BUT - the rails continued to buzz hard in the exact same way whenever touched 3) a) the termolo wire *connected* b) the dimarzio bare wire correctly to the ground c) the rails bare wire untaped from red-white and (correctly??) soldered to the ground effect : - dimarzio behaved perfectly, AND - the rails stopped buzzing when touching at the same time the tremolo or the strings, (which make up for the 99.99% of the occasions, so its ok as is now), *BUT* still buzz if i somehow manage to touch only the pups without touching anything else grounded (strings, bridge, etc..) So the problem is killed at its generation, but is still there, not inherently gone. Update : Just measured the dimarzio rails (fast track I, fast track II) and the artec rails. well, there is a difference, as i had suspected. The dimarzio rails themselves are connected to the ground, by testing for connectivity between e.g. the rail and the bridge, there is indeed connectivity. However when i test the artec, there is no connectivity between the metal rail and the ground circuit of the guitar. That means that the bare wire of the artec does not connect to neither the rails or the bottom alnico magnet bar of the pup.... Maybe that's why the artec are so much cheaper than the dimarzio.... What can i do? As a first resort i think i'll swap ground/hot wires (but always with the bare shield wire to the ground). This might make a difference in the buzz. Those pups hum more than other humbuckers. And also this might alter a little the string buzz effect when touched with bare hands, with no other ground metal of the ground circuit touched at the same time. As a second go, i might try grounding the rails and their magnet.... Does this sound ok or foolish?
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Post by newey on Mar 8, 2011 21:11:26 GMT -5
It doesn't sound foolish, although I think the odds are long that it makes any difference in the noise. But who knows? Attach some ground wires and see. If it makes no difference, you can always remove them. It sounds like everything else you've tried hasn't made a difference, so maybe it is time to experiment a bit. I recall a while back, our friend D2o solved a noise problem by re-grounding all the pot shells, which should have made no difference (since they were already supposedly grounded through the shielding). But, Lo and Behold, it worked, for whatever unknown reason. You might be equally blessed- or not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 3:43:51 GMT -5
I dont wanna ruin the pup, so i will not unwind or untape or disassemble anything or do anything else internally, i will just try soldering on the magnet with an additional wire and then ground this wire to the ground-shield circuit of the guitar. If that is not possible, then i will leave it as is, and just try reversing green/black, although i doubt it will have any impact, (and i think it should not have much impact). Anyway, there is no official info on the wiring (it came with no documentation) and while it is very probable that it is an artec pup, there is no official info about. Northwest guitars, although generally cool guys, do not have much info, they said i know better ;(
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 7:51:19 GMT -5
hhh i found this photo... it looks 100% like my rails... except of course for the magnet soldering/grounding. seems the guy did just what we were talking about.
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Post by newey on Mar 9, 2011 9:16:51 GMT -5
Yeah- and where did he get the promo 45 of the Stones' "Fool to Cry"?
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 9, 2011 13:30:34 GMT -5
Actually, that's the B-Side, Crazy Mama...
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Post by Yew on Mar 9, 2011 17:35:00 GMT -5
Old vinyl is everywhere, I pucked up Free's EP (thats 40 years old, well i think it was a recut) for a pound somwhere. Okay it was an old jukebox record, and i dont have a turntable, But its nice to know, and one day im gonna get a turntable, and some records (i bet i could get all of highway to hell for... 3 quid?)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 3:31:10 GMT -5
It doesn't sound foolish, although I think the odds are long that it makes any difference in the noise. I decided to leave it as is. There is no point. By pushing the strings to touch the pup's rails has the same effect as having the rails and/or magnet grounded, and i don't sense any change in hum. So its ok as it is. They are not dimarzio's or Seymour Duncan's, but for 16% of their price (and a lot of work/setup), i get about 80% of their quality. Not bad at all.
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Post by 4real on Mar 10, 2011 15:30:50 GMT -5
" They are not dimarzio's or Seymour Duncan's, but for 16% of their price (and a lot of work/setup), i get about 80% of their quality. Not bad at all. "
That's a decent assessment I think, although with some things, that 20% is the cream...LOL.
Still sounds like there are some mysterious anomalies in it, might be worth exploring further at some point. The main thing is that it works and the guitar is quiet and you are not going to get some big 'blurt' through a hundred watts or the like. Grounding the rails is no biggy, a file to the back of the rails will allow for soldering as per that pic should you choose...holding a test wire to the jack ground and rail will tell you if there is going to be a fix in it without taking the guitar apart.
You cant solder to the magnet btw as it is ceramic, so don't try that, just the rail pairs would be sufficient.
I can't imagine them being built this way, but there is a potential is the coil is wrapped around the actual rail itself (not protected by a bobbin) as early fenders are wrapped around the alnico poles, that a little of the insulation on the fine wire wore off in winding and conducts to the rail...very unlikely that this would happen in this design I suspect. However, such a fault could cause this kind of symptom, where the rails are effectively "live' by being connected by the coil to "hot"...checking with a multimeter in various ways can ascertain if there is any connection between the rail and hot, similar to the tests you did to see if it was connected to ground. As you can imagine, if they are hot, touching them would be much the same as touching the hot of a plug connected to an amp...buzz...which some how seems to be what you are describing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2011 0:28:33 GMT -5
thanx 4real, clever thought, but if the rails were indeed hot, then by measuring for connectivity between the rails and the the ground should measure about 12 kohm, or the resistance of whatever pup was selected at the time, right? I just re-did the test and there is no connectivity between the rails and ground. when i get the bare cable (later) i will test, just to make sure, for connectivity between rails and hot, but i guess there won't be any.
also if this theory was correct, then by pressing the strings to touch the rail metal, would effectively mean turning the vol pot down to 0, and route all signal to get drained in the ground, producing no sound.
(hey!!! that would be a very cool effect!!!)
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