Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 20, 2011 15:20:33 GMT -5
i need a diagram of a 2 pole, 6way rotary switch. i want to wire 6 different caps to it, but i'm unsure of which of the 2 poles is which. all i need to know is how to wire the 2 poles. instead of wiring a cap to the tone pot im running a wire to a 6way rotory switch with 6 different caps. which of the 2 poles do i solder to???
For any rotary switch, I always find it necessary to test the pinout configuration with a meter. Then, mark things with a bit of nail polish or marker. There are sometimes numbers or letters on the various poles, but they're too small for these tired eyes!
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 20, 2011 19:07:40 GMT -5
i'm still cofused i don't have the actual part yet but it didn't seem to have that many little tabs in the stewmac catalogue. it was advertised as being a varitone switch or a pick up selector but i've never personally seen or used one its new territory for me
The center "0" lugs are the commons, colored red and blue to correspond to the lugs numbered 1-6. So, in position 1, the blue center lug connects to the blue #1, in position 2 blue center 0 connects to blue 2, etc. The red lugs do like wise, so in pos 1, both red and blue #1s are connected to the red and blue commons, respectively.
Notice that it does not appear that the switch is bilaterally symmetric; look at the positions of the red and blue #1 lugs. With no way to tell which way you're holding the switch, you can't really tell which lug is #1. So, check for continuity with your meter in the various switch positions and mark accordingly, as I suggested above.
I think this is more of a 'concept' question than an actual 'grease, oil and gubbins' question.
A "2-Pole, 6-Way switch" is means that the switch has six possible 'paths' (so, 6-way) to go down, and that there are essentially two switches in one, both connected in which option of path to take (2-pole).
Maybe a diagram will help.
So when you wire up a switch, it really doesn't matter which 'pole' (actual switch) you use.
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 8:06:48 GMT -5
i've been drawing up new diagrams for all of my guitars the past few days and i've actually got 3 ideas like this the 1st was using p/p's and 4 caps, another was a blend pot with 2 caps(simplest of the 3 with more tonal range as well) and then there's this one, basically whats going on is a tone junky experimenting with new sound possibilities
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 8:13:09 GMT -5
i'll be more than happy to email any of these diagrams but because i'm using a psp i can't upload anything anywhere i've tried and failed, miserably at that but i still got the trusty ol' email system that works just fine
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 8:21:10 GMT -5
thanks for that post newey i tried viewing it the other day and it wouldn't load and all i got in the catalogue was a side view so now i'll know what i've got to work with now i just need to figure out the extra 6 lugs and cap grounding
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 8:27:31 GMT -5
so now would i just pick a side wire in the caps and ground them like a normal tone cap, or do i wire to both lugs of said number, or can i get away with wiring to both sides and grounding like normal,(like 1 to red 2 to blue 3 to red and so on)
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 8:42:48 GMT -5
or wait a minute!!! ''lightbulb burning brightly overhead'' wire one side the way i want it and the other side in reverse, run both red pole and blue pole wires to either a 3way toggle or a on/on/on switch to have a single value select or a multi value select by combining the 2 sides for dual tones (like a normal guitar) or just using one for a single tone
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 10:34:12 GMT -5
the easiest way i've found to get the sound i want is to use a blend pot. a 6 pole potentiometer that pans and blends 2 audio sources, by wiring caps to poles 2&5 then grounding then run a wire from pole 1 to pole 6 then to ground and the a wire from pole 3 to pole 4 and then to the 1st pole of the actual tone pot(therefore the blend pot acts 'as' a ''variable tone cap''). the 2 caps i'll be using are the .001mf & the .100mf.
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 10:45:50 GMT -5
theoretically panning and blending the 2 should give me the same tones as the varitone plus a hell of'a lot more not acheivable by the varitone it self but with all the good theres always some bad, once you've fine tuned the blend pot to the desired sound the slightest bump, rub, or nudge will knock it out of place were as the varitone takes some effort to turn but has a lesser tonal range so both have conciderable pro's & con's or maybe i'll run them both and put a 3 way toggle between them to add or mix
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 21, 2011 10:56:53 GMT -5
so now i've got a blend pot with a .001mf, and a .100mf for fine tuning and on the varitone just use .020mf, .039mf, .047mf, .050mf, a black ice overdrive capacitor and leave the 6th lug open as a bypass and a 3 way toggle between them and the actual tone leveling pot to add 1or the other or combine the 2 as well as adjusting their levels
I wouldn't expect much difference between the .047 and the .050. Their tolerance ranges overlap, after all. It's a distinct possibilty that the one marked .047 will have more capacitance than the .050. Same goes to an extent with .039 and .047.
Also, just a little technicality. I'm sure you're not actually talking about millifarads (mf) here, but rather microfarads. We usually use uf for that, though it technically be the greek lower case mu: μ
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 22, 2011 7:56:20 GMT -5
well i started drawing up a new diagram last night incorporating both the tone blend and the varitone together when it hit me like a ton of bricks, i posted yesterday on my tone blend mod and the whole time i've been overlooking the most important part in its setup and function
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 22, 2011 8:08:26 GMT -5
like i posted earlier its a 6pole 'pot' connect poles 1&6 then ground. connect poles 3&4 then run to tone level 'pot' wire caps AND a hot wire from pickup selector to poles 2&5, i realized that the tone caps may not be recieving anything to add the tone to. i may be wrong as i haven't tested it in reality yet, but i can't wait to hear it. can anyone shed some light on this will it work my original way or will i need the pickup signal wired to it as well
First of all, you don't have to touch the one side of the switch at all. Just run the wire from the Tone control to the left hand common. Those caps are all grounded at the other end, no?
Second, I can't see where the wire from the wiper of the Tone control is going. Actually, I can't tell what that DPDT is doing either. What you want for that tone pot is to have one lug connected to the Volume control and the other to the cap switch. One of the outside lugs should be either unconnected or jumpered to the wiper.
You've mentioned it a couple times, so I guess it's worth pointing out that the "Black Ice" thing is diodes, no a capacitor. It's often wired in like a tone cap, but it works completely differently. See JohnH's passive clipping thread for details. BTW, if you haven't already bought the Black Ice contraption, two diodes will be much cheaper!
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 24, 2011 12:20:29 GMT -5
well i'm sorry about the pic quality its a camera phone pic the thing to the left is a 500k blend pot i left the knob shaft thingy out to better show the wires path and i'm still learning the terminology to things so i honestly have no clue what you mean't by wiper there are 3 2pole on/on switches to the bottom right 2 are coil taps and the third is the overdrive thanks for that info on the black ice diode thing does value matter or what i'm still new to all this
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 24, 2011 12:31:40 GMT -5
and thanks for the help on the varitone switch i'll revise my diagram this evening the caps are grounded in the diagram as to where i don't know yet i'm thinking about just wiring both ends to the lugs instead of grounding will this make a diference
For a passive clipper like Black Ice you need diodes with a very low forward voltage drop. That's why JohnH specified those Shotky types. Germanium might work too. You mentioned somewhere that this requires 10K or greater pickups, but DC resistance really has very little to do with it. What you need is a pickup with hot enough output to overcome the forward voltage drop in the diodes, so they can actually have something to clip. This depends on a number of things, including the number of windings. If all other things about two pickups are equal, the DC resistance will give you some indication of which one might be hotter, but comparing different pickups via DCR is like apples and oranges.
As an example my Rick's pickups measure something like 13K DCR, but are at least 6db quieter than the 10K L'il Killer in the middle position on my strat.
Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 28, 2011 11:45:40 GMT -5
took that last pic with same shoddy camphone its alot clearer than my version 1.0 diagram though the wording id still hard to read i added a 2nd tone pot as to control the 2 tone sources independantly i'm filling holes and rerouting the whole control cavity anyway so at this stage it doesn't matter about space