1 HB, 1 SC, 3-way & Concentric Volume & Tone?

[frudoc]

Hey all! Brand new to this site, and essentially brand new to guitar modding and guitars in general. Caught the bug and can't stop. HEre is my situation and question.

I have a Squier '51. I want to install a concentric knob for volume (on the bottom) and tone (on the top) and a three way switch. The guitar will have one HB and one SC. I found a 2HB, 1 vol, 1 tone, 3 way diagram at Seymour Duncan. I also found a Telecaster 1 HB, 1 SC and Push/Pull at Seymour Duncan. But being completely new to all of this, and electronics in general, I was not sure what to do.

So, can someone help get me moving in the right direction? Is there a diagram anywhere for what I want to do? If not, can someone dumb it down for me as much as possible? Consider me a total novice please. If I didn't provide enough information, please let me know.

Thanks for your time!

Dan

[cynical1]

First off, welcome to the Nutzhouse.

Apr 7, 2011 1:47:24 GMT -5 frudoc said:

I have a Squier '51. I want to install a concentric knob for volume (on the bottom) and tone (on the top) and a three way switch. The guitar will have one HB and one SC.

Easy enough. For the record, was the idea to only have one knob and one switch visible from the cover plate?

I found a 2HB, 1 vol, 1 tone, 3 way diagram at Seymour Duncan.

Is this the one?



If so, then the volume portion of the drawing goes on the bottom set of lugs and the tone goes on the top set. Assuming your single coil only has two wires, the hot goes to the switch and the not hot goes to ground.

This would give you neck, both and bridge selectable from the switch.

I also found a Telecaster 1 HB, 1 SC and Push/Pull at Seymour Duncan.

And is this the one?



This one gets a bit more involved, and is problematic if you only want one knob and one switch showing on the front of your guitar, as I've never seen a concentric push pull knob.

You can throw a DPDT switch into the old Tone hole in the switch plate, wire it as shown and you're good to go. Same thing applies to wiring the concentric pot as above for the lugs.

But being completely new to all of this, and electronics in general, I was not sure what to do.

Join the party. The first thing you have to ask yourself is what you want the guitar to sound like. What do you want it to do with the pickups you've selected?

Is there a diagram anywhere for what I want to do?

What exactly are you trying to do? The second drawing is probably more in line with what a SC/HB Tele does, but we really need to know what you want it to do. Leaving it to the devices and evil machinations of some of the folks around here and your control cavity will look like it came from the Fermi Lab by the time you're done...

One other thing. The 3-way in the first drawing is the traditional Les Paul switch. The bottom drawing is the more traditional Tele switch. If you have the standard Squier '51 control plate some physical modifications may be necessary to make the switch fit...

If I didn't provide enough information, please let me know.

One question I have is this. Are you using the standard control plate, or were you planning on changing it out? Considering I'm not the resident expert on the Squier '51, I do recall the Squier '51 as having only two holes in the SC\HB configuration, with the volume being a push\pull.

The problem is really more on the second drawing. I don't believe there is a place to put the 3 way switch in that plate without some serious modifications, or an outright replacement.

I'm also not 100% certain a Les Paul type 3 way will fit in the hole or the cavity. A right angle switch might help on the cavity and you can always re-drill the hole.

Feel free to ask more questions or for a clarification. There are people much more familiar with the Squier '51 then I am that should be by soon.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[sbgodofmetal]

just so the few nutz here that just dont know exactly what we're dealing with... the squier '51 is what exactly? strat clone? tele clone? jazzmaster? jaguar?

[lpf3]

the squier '51 is what exactly? strat clone? tele clone?

Yes. And a 51 P-Bass clone.



It's an Indonesian Squier that was discontinued in '05. Pretty cool guitars IMO.

Fender has recently introduced a MIM (?) version of the same guitar w/ some (apparent) improvements in quality.......

frudoc wrote:

I want to install a concentric knob for volume (on the bottom) and tone (on the top) and a three way switch.

Welcome frudoc!

I'm not really clear on what your after here- are you going to install a 3-way switch in order to replace your existing rotary switch? If that's the case then you won't need a concentric pot as yout existing switch will be freed up to be used as a tone pot..........

You might be interested in something like this as an easy way to get the 3-way + 1 vol. 1 tone.

A lot of guys also mount a Gibson style toggle switch in the upper bout of the pickguard to get the same thing. If you haven't already, check these guys out- there ae hundreds of pictures of modded 51's and as many ideas for ways to consume your life fix up your 51.........


Hope some of this is helpful....

enjoy,

-lpf3

[sbgodofmetal]

it looks like frudoc already belongs to that forum, lpf3.

[lpf3]

it looks like frudoc already belongs to that forum, lpf3.

Ah, I see that now. ;D Thanks

Seriously though, I haven't been around there in a year or more, but there's a lot o' nice folks & plenty of ideas to choose from.

-lpf3

[frudoc]

Holy Smokes! You guys are awesome.

I don't have the time just yet to go through all this very thoroughly. I breezed through it though, and I think I can provide some more information. And yes, those are the two diagrams I found. Thanks!

1) I have the Ian Rich South Plate seen here: shop.seeker.co.nz/51/51_south.aspx [hmm..it worked before - maybe copy/paste]. It has one knob and one slotted three way switch.

2) I can either go for a three way with a volume knob or, what I am trying to figure out here, a three way with a concentric knob that will do volume and tone. The latter seems the most challenging for me and the most satisfying, so that's where I am at right now.

3) Ya, I am already part of that forum, and there are some great guys over there. That said, I got more responses here over night than I have gotten over there in a week or two. : ) They are awesome, but there are just not as many active users there anymore.

4) Here are soe of the parts I have lined up (have not purchased them yet though):
Concentric Pot: tiny.cc/conpot
Concentric Knob: tiny.cc/conknob
CRL 3-Way: tiny.cc/crl3way

Finally, a question. When I get home and have more time I am going to search for some "how to read a guitar wiring diagram" resources. If any of you guys already know of a good resource, I'd love to know. Better than wading through a bunch of crap first. I am finding that often my google searches are not as efficient as they could be simply because I don't yet know all the proper vocabulary and exactly what to search for.

Hopefully that clears things up a bit. Again, thanks for everything and let me know what you need to know.

dan

[cynical1]

The link didn't fire for me, but is this the plate you're talking about?



If it is then option 2 would work fine with the 3-way, the concentric pot and the DPDT switch in the bottom hole, normally reserved for the tone control..

And I can't think of any resource for reading wiring diagrams. Normally, you just begin by focusing on the signal path and start learning how to determine it. Getting your wire colors right is a biggie...

HTC1

[frudoc]

No, it's the South Plate Chrome. I clicked on the link in the thread twice. The first time it didn't work, the second time it did. Hmmm? Let's see if this works:


That's the one. It shows up in the preview, hopefully it will show up for all you. Let me know if it doesn't.

[newey]

The pickups and switch are one module in this scheme, the V and T is another. Here's your V and T:



On the switching, I can modify the SD diagram for that if you need me to do so. If you haven't bought the 3-way switch yet, consider a 5-way for more options!

[frudoc]

OK.
1) I just assumed the top lugs were for the top knob, and the bottom for the bottom. is that correct?


2) See the picture for questions:


3) I have not bought anything yet, but was only going to go with the 3-way for simplicity. At this point, and with this guitar, I wanted to keep it simple. I have a couple other guitars with controls all over the place. : )

4) If it's not too much trouble, a diagram regarding the switch would be very helpful. Honestly, I am staring at this stuff trying to make sense of it. It'll come to me soon, but everything helps. Basically, I want to have a diagram eventually that I can sit and look at while doing my wiring - one that would include all of the wiring I need to do.

For what it's worth, I want the wider/lower knob to be for volume and the top/narrower knob to be for tone.
Thanks!

[newey]

1) I just assumed the top lugs were for the top knob, and the bottom for the bottom. is that correct?

You could be right, I was assuming the opposite, but I don't have one handy to check. Basically, one element is wired as the volume, the other as a tone, and you can choose either one. As shown on my diagram, the one with the capacitor is the tone pot.

A quick check with an ohmmeter will tell you which is which.

On the diagram, looking from the back of the pot, the green square is around the "lower" lugs as I saw it, not sure what the convention is with these things. Again, it's easily checked.

If you don't have one, procure a multimeter before embarking on a rewiring project.

I'll get the rest of a "soup to nuts" diagram up soon.

[frudoc]

Thanks so much! It really helps. I am shopping for a multimeter now. Trying to figure out what I need as opposed to what I might think is cool. Again, I am new to this stuff so I am learning as I go (and loving it). I also just found out that instead of a refund I owe money this year, so the money I thought I had for guitar modding is not there.

Anyways, I will get my parts as soon as I can and once I do I think a lot of this will make a little more sense to me.

thanks again

[newey]

OK, I think this has got the goods as far as your complete diagram. But let's let someone else sign off on it first, a double-check is always good.

There are various ways of wiring this. I used both poles of the 3-way switch but that's not really necessary,I could have just jumpered both pickups together at lug #2 on the same pole.



Ask questions if anything is unclear.

[ashcatlt]

newey - that's got both pickups always on.

What's needed here is standard tele wiring. We're just gluing the tone pot onto the volume.

(It does require both poles of the Tele 3-way)

[newey]

Oops. That's why I need someone to double check my diagrams!

Fixed is.

[frudoc]

Wow! You rock! Thanks so much. If I may ask some questions...

1) Can you explain to me what the "C" means on the 3-way switch and the significance of the wire between the C's?

2) Are the three lugs (is that the right word?) with the cap and red-middle-wire the Tone pot lugs? (See picture for clarification)

3) Does the color coding mean anything standard, or is it simply a way of saying that they are different wires? IE. Is one color always a grounded wire? etc.

4) As a follow-up to #3, is there a reason why the green wire turns black at a certain point?

5) Finally, could you explain briefly the wiring on the right side of the diagram? I assume that is the guitar jack. I am looking at mine and it has two lugs. Is one of them positive and one of them....? Regarding the black circle where it says "grnd" can you explain that more for me too? Is that wire being ground in the jack area? Something else? And how does all this relate to the picture of my jack below?

6) Where can I make a donation?! Seriously, this is so helpful.

[newey]

5) Finally, could you explain briefly the wiring on the right side of the diagram? I assume that is the guitar jack.

Yes, the round part represents the sleeve, which is the negative or ground connection. The red wire goes to the tip contact, which is the +.

In your photo, the wire looks white, not grey.

As a follow-up to #3, is there a reason why the green wire turns black at a certain point?

Not really, the wire is green to comport with SD colors, it gets grounded to the back of the pot, and the grounds were black.

The green box is indeed around the tone control.

The "C" stands for "common". The switch has 2 poles, each pole has a common and lugs numbered 1-3.

In position 1, each lug marked "1" is connected to the common lug on that side of the switch, in position 2 the "2"s go to the commons, etc.

The blue jumper ties the 2 common poles together in this scheme, since both poles must go to the output. Other wiring schemes might leave the poles separate, in this scheme they are combined to go to the output.

[frudoc]

Gotcha! Thanks.

I think when I said grey I was referring to the sleeve that the white and bear wire is in. Like I said, I am still learning. This is very helpful though. Thanks so much.

[newey]

The bare wire is the sleeve connection, the white wire is the "hot", which goes to the tip, corresponding to the red wire in my diagram.

A multimeter is needed for any serious rewiring work. Here, you will use it first of all to check which way round the concentric pots are, as discussed above, and also to check the 3-way switch so that you know which lugs are the common ones (if it's not obvious from the switch, some are clearer than others).

It's a good idea to check all components before wiring, a dodgy one will give you fits later on.

[frudoc]

Gotcha. Thanks again. A multimeter is on the top of my supply list.

Is there something I should look for or something I should avoid when purchasing one? I am inclined to overspend for fear of under-purchasing. But I just don't have the money right now. I just want to make sure I "have the right tool" when the time comes., without having way more tool than I will ever need to wire a guitar.

[newey]

You need one which has a range for resistance of 20K Ohms or better, and it should read to at least 2 decimal places.

Auto-ranging is a nice feature to have, and many newer models do have that at a reasonable price nowadays. To get a decent digital one, expect to spend $15-$25.

I spent about $22 on one, as I recall at Lowe's or Home Depot, and it has served me well for several years now. There were cheaper models, but they were physically bigger; I'm sure I spent a bit more to get the smaller "pocket-sized" unit.

[JohnH]

On multimeters, these days the cheap ones work quite well. Thats all mine is, it was about $10, and lets me check all the basic things I need for guitars being: resistance, for checking cable continuity, pickup and pot resistance and short circuits, dc voltage for checking batteries plus testing active circuits, ac voltage for checking mains outlets around the house, dc curent for testing current draw from active circuits. I can also check transistors and diodes. It seems to be pretty accurate, eg when I measure a 1% tolerance resistor it measures within spec.

My current one is about 4 years old, and I did something that blew the dc current reading. Ill replace it soon. I think if you spend more they get more robust in construction. Also, in the better models, you can measure capacitance and inductance, which would be handy but not essential.

If you need one now, its much better to get a cheap one than to do without and waste heaps of time not being able to work out whats happening in a circuit. And being able to test your parts and get to know their characteristics is very valuable in itself.

John

[frudoc]

OK. Sounds good. I will start looking around on Amazon and see what I can find. Thanks!

[frudoc]

[edit] Post deleted because I picked up an multimeter already.