[Newey?] 1HB, 1SC, 1 3-way, Volume

[frudoc]

Newey put together a great diagram for me (goo.gl/CLdpJ) and now I am hoping he or someone could help me out on something else. Here is the original diagram:



That diagram was for a concentric pot for volume and tone. I would like to learn what to do if I only wanted a volume control and no tone control, which is standard on the Squier 51.

My question:

1) Can Newey or someone tweak my diagram linked above so that it is: 1 HB, 1 SC, 1 3-way and 1 Volume?

I am guessing it should be more simple, but being new to all this, I wanted to make sure I got it right.

Looking at the original diagram, is it as simple as NOT wiring from volume to tone and doing the grounds on the volume pot? Also, the capacitor is used for tone, correct, so I would lose that too?

Thanks!

[ijustwannastrat]

What you said is correct. Just to clarify one thing, you DO need to have a wire attaching the third terminal to the body of the pot (GROUND).

[frudoc]

Great! So...

1) One wire from Switch to Volume pot lug #1
2) One wire from Volume pot lug #2 to Jack
3) One wire from Volume pot lug #3 to ground

This would be just like the diagram shows except there would be no wire from lug #1 to the Tone pot.

Correct?

[newey]

Yes, that's correct. You can think of the tone pot as being a separate module, you're just removing that module in its entirety.

In terms of designating the lugs on the pot, the middle one is referred to as the "wiper", "1" and "3" would be CW and CCW respectively. Usually a dot is used to designate the CW side in diagrams, and many pot have a physical mark of some sort on them to designate the CW lug.

The problem with calling them 1, 2 and 3 is, when you rotate the pot, "1" becomes "3"!. And, invariably, you will rotate it as you're installing and wiring it.

[frudoc]

OK. Thanks Newey. Now, what does CW and CCW stand for? And why do they call it the "wiper?"

[ijustwannastrat]

CW=Clockwise
CCW=Counter Clockwise

It's called the wiper because of the internal parts of the pot. The middle lug is connected to a bit that rotates along a path between the two side lugs. At least, that's how I believe it works. I'm still somewhat iffy about the inside of pots.... I used to have a great link saved on my computer about pots, but my computer died, so I lost it...

[ashcatlt]

Was it the Secret Life of Pots?

I'd like to mention that it's technically not "ground" until it gets somewhere that actually grounds it, like an amplifier. The ultimate destination for those wires as far as the guitar is concerned is the sleeve of the output jack. The back of the V pot is just a (allegedly) convenient stop off point. This practice also allows the pot case to act as a shield for its own innards, which is of questionable effect - especially inside an otherwise shielded control cavity.

[frudoc]

OK. I get the CW and CCW. Thank you.

ashcatlt: Thank you, but now you have opened up another can! : )

Can you try to describe for me what you mean by the sleeve of the output jack?

So far I have watched examples where it looked like people were grounding on a lug on the output jack (and running the hot wire to the other output jack lug). Is that lug being used for grounding considered the sleeve because it is touching the sleeve? Is the sleeve something else?

[newey]

A std 1/4" phone jack, such as used on a guitar, has 2 contacts, a tip and a sleeve. It is therefore also called a "TS" jack (and/or corresponding TS plug). The sleeve is also called a "barrel" at times, usually when referring to the plug instead of to the jack.

3-conductor ones, used for stereo wiring, add a "ring" contact between the tip and the sleeve, and are thus "TRS" jacks.

Normally, the tip is used for the "hot" connection and the sleeve for the "not hot" (I didn't say "ground"; Ash is correct, terminology-wise. We want to be precise, because calling it a "ground" can generate confusion when we wire it to "hot" in some schemes.

[frudoc]

Man I love this forum! Thanks for all that. It's amazing how much a fella can learn in such a short time now days. LOL!

So, when do we call it "ground?" Is ground a verb more than a noun? How should I think about grounding?

[ashcatlt]

Well, that is a big can! I don't really know if I can do it justice, especially with my household completely devoid of beer.

Many folks would likely say that it ain't ground till it hits the ground - like the earth, the planet beneath your feet. This usually (hopefully) happens via the amplifier's AC power cable's connection through the wall wiring to a ground stake somewhere.

But then what if you're using a battery powered amplifier?

The fact is that ground is actually a reference voltage. Sometimes we use as that reference voltage the center of the AC power swing (which is where the earth sits), sometimes we use the bottom (negative terminal) of a battery, but it doesn't really have to be. Many audio circuits have a "virtual ground" somewhere between the two ends of the power supply against which the swings of the audio signal are compared. All voltage is relative.

Yeah, that probably doesn't help.

When we're talking about guitars (and really more often then not) it's more technically correct to call it the "signal return". This is a circuit. The electricity flows "out" via one conductor and back "in" via the other. The two conductors of the jack/cable don't look like they connect at the jack end. Well, they don't, until you plug it into something. Then there's got to be some (usually highly resistive) path for the electrons to flow between the two, or it's not a circuit and you hear nothing.*

I know what you mean when you say ground, but just wanted to make sure you were not considering any of these "ground points" any sort of final destination.



* Even this "signal send"/"signal return" terminology is deceptive. This is an AC circuit, the current does not flow in just one direction, but rather back and forth within the circuit. It's better to my mind than designations like + and - or even "hot" and "not hot" because either of the wires can be more positive than the other at any given time.

** I've completely left out that whole thing where electrons don't actually flow through capacitors. Trying to avoid aneurysms here.

[frudoc]

That is plenty to get me started. Thanks! I never really thought of the ground as the terminal point, but then again I never really thought much about it to begin with. I appreciate what you said about the jack not being a termination point so much as where the signal - once plugged in - continues from.

Anyways, I have this thread bookmarked for future reference. I am slowly making heads and tails out of all this stuff - and I don't even own a soldering iron yet! I suppose it is for the best for now since I have been spending my time reading posts like these, watching videos like Terry Downs', and chasing down any other source of information I can find, instead of just burning things. But the time for some hands-on practice is coming and I am looking forward to it.

[Yew]

I was doing somthing in my electronics lectures a few weeks ago, that created a virtual ground. However i cant remember what it was maybe somthing to do with logic gates?

[JohnH]

Apr 14, 2011 5:03:04 GMT -5 Yew said:

I was doing somthing in my electronics lectures a few weeks ago, that created a virtual ground. However i cant remember what it was maybe somthing to do with logic gates?

Its a concept in some opamp circuits, in which the - input stays virtually at ground potential, even though not connected to the actual ground. Its often used for mixers.