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Post by diminitive on Apr 14, 2011 12:20:13 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm new here, after surfing the web for the last couple of months looking for a specific schematic. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it and so I turn to you. I'm looking for a Stratocaster schematic with 1 push-pull pot (I already have it) that keeps the Strat stock when the pot is pushed and has the following properties when the pot is pulled: Position 1 points to the neck. Position 1: Neck + Middle in series Position 2: Neck + Bridge in series Position 3: Neck + Middle + Bridge in series Position 4: Neck + Bridge in series (same as 2) Position 5: Bridge + Middle in series I don't know if it's possible, but I'd appreciate any help I can get. My dad will help me with the wiring, he's really good at soldering but unfortunately has no experience in audio schematics. To make up for me being new, here's a YouTube vid of me playing.  (EDITed by sumgai to make the link into a real video.) |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:13:52 GMT -5
i seriously doubt this is possible using only one push/pull, it may be possible to do this using 1 as a neck add and the other as a bridge add. you might also want to try switching the 5way selector for a 3way its wired the same as the 5way but eliminates pos, 2&4 on the switch
this gives you
pos,1-bridge
pos,2-middle
pos,3-neck
w/n+
pos,1-bridge+neck
pos,2-middle+neck
pos,3-neck+neck
w/B+
pos,1-bridge+bridge
pos,2-middle+bridge
pos,3-neck+bridge
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:17:39 GMT -5
and with both up
pos,1-bridge+bridge+neck
pos,2-bridge+middle+neck
pos,3-neck+neck+bridge.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:26:00 GMT -5
here's a diagram of that  |
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Post by diminitive on Apr 14, 2011 13:27:31 GMT -5
Well actually, I want to keep 2 and 4 and I want to keep them the same. I have a modified Behringer HellBabe that responds quite different to 2 and 4 original, I switch them all the time, as well. I'd like to be able to keep doing that and having the same sound when 'pulling out'.  But as to this not being possible, please forgive me for (possibly) being an idiot.. Why? |
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Post by diminitive on Apr 14, 2011 13:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:31:04 GMT -5
S1 and S2 are the top and middle lugs on the switch half of your push/pulls they can be on either side of the push/pull as long as both wires are connected to the same side. hope this helps
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Post by diminitive on Apr 14, 2011 13:36:49 GMT -5
It's not possible with 1 push-pull pot?  |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:41:31 GMT -5
basically unless your adding a second selector switch having bridge and middle in pos, 5 in the up pos, is impossible while the down pos, remains standard. alternatively use your push/pull as a vol, and make it a master tone, install a DP5T or a DP6T rotary switch were tone 2 used to be and wire it the way you wanted placing it in the push/pulls up pos, that would be either of the top 2 lugs, and move your blade from vol, lug 1 to the coresponding bottom lug. and run another wire from the middle lug to vol
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 14, 2011 13:42:57 GMT -5
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 13:45:13 GMT -5
note to work properly all wires must be on the same side of the switch half of the push/pull pot (as far as i know)
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Post by JohnH on Apr 14, 2011 15:32:35 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2011 18:30:03 GMT -5
I really don't have anything to add to the discussion...I just thought those were cool slippers...
And I think JFP is on the money. Some sort of double barrel switching is going to be required to make it do exactly what you're looking for.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 18:51:30 GMT -5
here's a discreet double barrel with a blade style varitone switch it uses 2 DP6T rotary switches ($2.99@RADIO SHACK) so you'll either have the stock 5 sounds or around 125+. both switches have a bypass position meaning no sound will come from that switch when bypass is selected  |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 18:56:01 GMT -5
and as for what that push/pull is it a passive overdrive
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Post by JohnH on Apr 14, 2011 19:08:00 GMT -5
I just thougt a bit more about the first scheme I linked to above. Actually, it is almost exactly doing what you want. The series combinations are in a different order (which can be adjusted for by moving lug conections). Also, instead of two identical NxB series combos, my second one has a reduced amount of N. Thats a mixture I like very much, but by omitting the 12k resistor, it would default to full NxB.
cheers
John
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Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 19:18:58 GMT -5
I do.  Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2, diminutive! They're GRRRREEAAAATT! Seriously, I was going to point you in the direction of JohnH's "Dual Sound" Strat, which gets most of the sounds you want while still keeping the stock 5-way switch. As noted, though, that requires the addition of a four pole switch (and, no, 2 push/pulls won't substitute), which adds another switch, and not a very common one at that. It means another hole in your pickguard as well. If all you have is just the one push/pull and the stock 5-way, ChrisK's "S-None" scheme, which JohnH also linked you to above, is the best you're going to do and the closest you're going to come to your desires. EDIT: Aside from the slippers, your playing is very good, you've got Hendrix's version of Hey Joe down. Jimi's version of that is the version that's remembered nowadays, but well before he recorded that, the song was already a garage band staple. In the mid-60's, every guitarist knew "Hey Joe" and every teenage garage band covered it. Hendrix slowed the tune way down into a bluesy vamp, but the original version by The Leaves was very uptempo, and most of the cover versions followed suit. My personal fave is the cover by the band Love. You might try working out on these other versions, now that you've got Jimi's down. |
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Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 20:50:36 GMT -5
Total hijack here, but here's what I was talking about:
And, of course, it didn't stop with covers of Hey Joe, it also spawned a hundred other songs. The Syndicate of Sound's "Hey Little Girl" was just "Hey Joe" sped up:
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Post by lpf3 on Apr 14, 2011 22:27:44 GMT -5
OK newey, I'll see your hijack & raise ya a guitar lesson story........ When I was about 10 or 11 ("65- '66) the "big kids" on my street had just such a garage band and of course covered Hey Joe. I followed the guitarist around with my guitar & pestered him until he taught it to me in its entirety. I still know it, in a manner of speaking.  Great memory, thanks......... -lpf3 P.S. Don't forget versions by The Preachers & The Back Door Men..... |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 14, 2011 23:03:10 GMT -5
speaking of jimi try playing his version of the star spangled banner, the live at wood stock version when he played it with his teeth.  |
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Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 23:09:30 GMT -5
Or the totally over-the-top Deep Purple cover from 1968, slowed down like the Hendrix version, but with 2:27 worth of "electric flamenco" as an intro:
And a great story, lpf3! Makes me want to break out my polka-dot shirt and Cuban-heel boots. ;D
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2011 23:54:23 GMT -5
Oh, now you did it...
[sermon]
While Hendrix will always be remembered for his "hits", I think everyone should take a breath, then go back and listen to side 3 of Electric Ladyland.
Zappa generally gets most of the kudos for using the studio as an instrument...and he deserves it. But if you listen to what Hendrix and Kramer were able to pull off, with what they had to work with, it irks several small nerves that they never seem to get the credit due for being one of the most inventive pair ever to hit a studio. The only thing that gets remembered is a few squirts of Zippo lighter fluid, a several smashed guitars and playing with his teeth...
And don't get me started on what Hendrix could have done with a longer leash. I don't know if anyone here has ever listened to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew. It was recorded in sessions beginning about a week after Woodstock. All fusion jazz sprang from it...along with most of the fusion players in the beginning. John MacLaughlin played guitar...and did a respectable job. Imagine what that album would have sounded like if Hendrix was in that line up... One can only imagine what Davis and Hendrix could have done together. If I ever find a lamp and the genie gives me three wishes, one of them would be to hear Davis and Hendrix play together.
I don't get my hackles up much these days, but the only reason Hendrix's version of The Stars Spangled Banner ever was remembered from Woodstock was because of the film. Hendrix was the last act on day 4, the last day of the show. He wanted it that way. Most of the crowd had left by that time and more exited during his set.
In my mind, there are few musical geniuses that grace this rock over time. Hendrix's genius was his feel. You can't put words on it. He pulled it from a place no one had been before. To remember someone of that caliber by his stunts or tricks...or formula success due to studio pressure is sad. Very sad.
The best thing Hendrix ever did was the music we never got to hear.
[/sermon]
Sorry, it just came out.
Nothing to see here anymore...move along...
C1
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 15, 2011 1:38:25 GMT -5
you've gotta point as always cynical1, the closest thing to hendrix we've got now is lenny cravitts(not sure on spelling) one thing that helped hendrix get his sound (other than the ,LSD, ACID, AND MARAJUANA) was the size of his hands and fingers he could physically reach his "THUMB" over the top of the neck and create some really freaky chords and theres not very many ppl who can play those chords without some form of capo, its complexity is truly amazing.
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Post by diminitive on Apr 15, 2011 2:25:36 GMT -5
Wow, thanks everyone! First of all, I didn't realise I was asking for something so exotic, I wouldn't want the circuit to be too complicated as it will A. be prone to failure and B. need more money which I don't have (I'm a uni student). If it's possible, I'd like to use a schematic that'll at least give me position 1, 3 and 5. I really like those versions of Hey Joe, but that's not the way I want to go. I'm using little bits and pieces for my own purposes, the video was actually just a warm-up run from about a year ago. I have a lot of ideas for songs (think Hendrix-level complexity and spaceious feel, not to sound arrogant) but my laptop broke down and studio time is expensive. As for the weird playing, I usually play Albert King-style. I'm two-handed in a lot of things, but it makes more sense to me for the lowest string to be on the bottom. I can play regular leftie with about 30 minutes of warming up, it's always fun to mess with people's minds like that. My guitar (currently) is a leftie stock Squier Affinity Body, rightie maple custom neck with decal. It'll have Texas Specials in hopefully a week or so. I'd love to jam with all of you. |
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Post by diminitive on Apr 15, 2011 2:26:58 GMT -5
Oh and talking about complicated chords, I have hypermobility in just about any part of my body. That, paired with upside-down playing makes for some pretty freaky chord possibilities (also chord-fragment melodies IMPOSSIBLE for righties ). |
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Post by diminitive on Apr 15, 2011 3:47:04 GMT -5
Okay, I just found out that the 2010 American Deluxe Stratocaster (S-1) does pretty much what I want. Is it attainable with the stuff I have already? |
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Post by newey on Apr 15, 2011 5:09:33 GMT -5
The AmDlx Strat does what it does with the use of the Fender S-1 switch. The S-1 switch is difficult to find, and pricey when it is found.
As I said before, the "S-None" scheme from ChrisK above does most of the S-1 sounds with just a push/pull pot. It doesn't have the out-of-phase sounds that the S-1 gives, but you didn't ask for those.
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Post by diminitive on Apr 15, 2011 5:14:55 GMT -5
Would it be possible for that schematic to include all 3 in series, keeping everything the same only changing pos. 3 with the pot pulled?
So from Middle * (Bridge + Neck) on the original schematic to Middle * Bridge * Neck?
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Post by newey on Apr 15, 2011 5:47:14 GMT -5
Nope. As ChrisK notes in his post, he's just using a double pole switch, so it can't be as "techno-whizzy" as the S-1, which is a 4-pole switch.
The problem with putting all 3 pickups in series, and the reason it requires more than the 2 poles available, is that, in a series chain, you can't simply disconnect one of the pickups to turn it off.
It's like the old style Christmas tree lights, where one bulb going bad turns off the whole string. That's series wiring.
In parallel, we can simply disconnect one end of a pickup to turn it off. In series, we have to "short around" both ends of a pickup to take it out of the series chain. Each pickup we want to "short around" is going to require a separate pole on the switch So, with three pickups in series (i.e., Br * M * N), we need 2 poles to do that, plus a separate pole to turn the M pup off to give us Br * N, and if we then also want to have Br * M, we need yet another pole, etc.
We should also clarify what we mean by "the S-1 wiring" because Fender has produced several different versions of that wiring. ChrisK's "S-none" scheme emulates the 2004-era SSS AmDlx Strat wiring, which did not give one all three in series, and did not give any OOP sounds.
The 2010 AmDlx wiring does give all 3 pickups in series and has 2 OOP options, but then it sacrifices some of the 2004-era combos.
The wiring on the S-1 equipped HSS guitars is yet another version, with different settings- and there's at least 2 different versions of that as well.
The bottom line is, you either have to scale back your expectations or buy more robust switching, whether it be an S-1 switch or a 4-pole toggle.
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Post by diminitive on Apr 15, 2011 6:33:58 GMT -5
Although this isn't the answer I wanted to hear, I still want to thank you for your help and time. I'll think about what we're gonna do (within the realm of possibilities) for the next couple of days and get back to you with my decision. Of course, if I can find some recording equipment I'll post a video showing it off. |
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