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Post by fenderbender on Jul 28, 2011 15:25:21 GMT -5
I seen this after wandering thru a few guitar related forums and thought it was one of the best tone circuits I've ever heard. Fully passive and a simple layout. Has anyone here done something like this before?
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Jul 28, 2011 15:54:19 GMT -5
From this sitehttp://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=903493&page=5 from Terry himself.
i know there's an inductor in there somewhere...
Lots to tell about this pic; the deceptively simple controls allow access to an incredible array of organic, analog tones. The knobs are solid milled aluminum with rubber grip rings. The volume pot is from CTS; The black knob is the custom rotary fader from CTS (with center detent) which controls the dual function TCM FullTec filters; the mini toggle (rated for 150,000 mechanical cycles) allows for Low Pass Filter, True Bypass, or Sweet Filter..again, selecting the desired TCM FullTec funtion. The 5-way pup selector yields the familiar Stratocaster pickup selections:
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Post by roadtonever on Jul 28, 2011 15:58:49 GMT -5
I just watched a long ad I wonder if it's similar to a greasebucket or TBX. I found a shot of the guts EDIT: Christo beat me to it!
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Post by fenderbender on Jul 28, 2011 16:15:24 GMT -5
It is shameless self promotion but I didn't mind after hearing how well it sounded. Interesting gut shot there, roadtonever. The center pot must be internal only.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 28, 2011 22:02:44 GMT -5
I'd love to know how he did it too. I checked out a few more of his videos and he seems to do a lot of that passive tone module tweaking.
HTC1
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Post by asmith on Jul 29, 2011 6:08:08 GMT -5
The center pot must be internal only. I reckon that's an inductor. If I'm seeing correctly: Tone control on the left, Volume on the right. Standard "Strat" 5-way (2-Pole-3-Path) switch. "Crazy Tone" circuit, i.e. caps, resistors, and inductor mess, is all connected to that circuitboard. It connects to the main circuit through the toggle switch (3-Pole-2-Throw) to the input and output lugs of the Volume control (small red and green wires). Circuitboard includes a mass of resistors and capacitors, can't tell how it's laid out. That tone control looks like it's got a multitude of caps and resistors on it as well. There's a teal wire running from the Volume ground lug to the tone control, suggesting a mod a little like this bass-cut variable cap on JFrankParnell's guitar. One of the pickups is connected to the tone control from the five-way switch through an orange wire, the rest seems to be connected to the tone control from the toggle switch. As per a clue to how this was done, a mock-up of a basic circuit diagram would take a fair bit of guesswork and much more input on that circuitboard. EDIT: Also bear in mind I'm at work at the moment, and can't watch YouTube.
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Jul 29, 2011 6:48:34 GMT -5
The Volume is on the left, Tone pot on the right, but you got the rest right you can see the Treble Bleed cap/resistor combo on the left
The inductor is custom made by Cinemag, reminds me of an old wah pot... Can't find the page in TGP, but he doesn't like to boost the frequencies, hard to do with just passive comps, but rather cut the other like the Bass Cut.
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Post by asmith on Jul 29, 2011 7:47:02 GMT -5
The Volume is on the left, Tone pot on the right Right you are. The more I look at this, the more it becomes clear. Still no clue on the circuitboard, but the rest of the circuitry looks manageable.
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Post by JohnH on Jul 29, 2011 18:35:55 GMT -5
I thought the promotion was a shade too much. Its nice to know its got the same toggle switch as the Space shuttle though (..and I was thinking before that the main problem was with the 'O' rings?...).
The tone circuits seem interesting and effective, and the sweep of tones seems to avoid excess changes in volume and overall dull sounds. J
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Post by sumgai on Jul 29, 2011 22:21:12 GMT -5
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Post by fenderbender on Jul 30, 2011 8:04:56 GMT -5
That "center pot" is an inductor, a fairly standard make and model for this range of values (single-digit Henries) - nothing custom To my way of thinking, adding overdrive (or gain or somesuch) in order to obtain "that special tone (the so-called woman tone)" just displays that your axe can't achieve it without help. Not what I'd call a smart Marketing move. IMNSHO, of course. Huh, interesting theory. Guess Clapton need some help, too: "Clapton has explained that he obtained the tone with his Gibson's tone control rolled all the way down, switching to the neck pick-up (closest to the fretboard) and the volume all the way up, with his distortion turned all the way up. The treble, mids and bass controls on the amplifier were also maxed out. Some versions of the "woman tone" may also have involved strategic positioning of Clapton's wah-wah pedal." Whatever. If the circuit is uninteresting to you then so be it.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 30, 2011 22:15:41 GMT -5
Guess Clapton need some help, too:
"Clapton has explained that he obtained the tone with his Gibson's tone control rolled all the way down, switching to the neck pick-up (closest to the fretboard) and the volume all the way up, with his distortion turned all the way up. The treble, mids and bass controls on the amplifier were also maxed out. Some versions of the "woman tone" may also have involved strategic positioning of Clapton's wah-wah pedal." Note that magic word in there? This is a reference to E.C.'s gear of over 30 years ago. A veritable myriad of websites have more up-to-date remarks about the woman-tone obtained with his Strat(s). ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ A word about "the good ol' days". In those times, distortion was a dirty word amongst the audiophile community (and still is, for that matter). As it happens, nearly 100% of those community members were parents of the growing mass of guitar-player-wannabe's, and right down to the last one of 'em, they all "rebelled" against what their parents wanted - clean sound, and preferably not so loud. While those wars, and the results thereof, are not germane to our discussion, the fact is, some kind of distortion was used throughout that period of Rock, enough so that it finally took on its own tonal aspect, and was finally appreciated for what it adds to one's tone, and not just as a way to annoy one's parent-figures. Fast forward to today, or even any time during the last 20 years. Distortion of any sort is used as a tonal modifier, whether by newbie players or old pros. But by and large, if you ever get the chance to see The Man on stage, do make an effort to note his setup - it might contain a distortion box alright (particularly if he's gonna reprise his Cream days), but when you hear his tone, do you really say to yourself "yeah man, that distorion is killer" or some such? No, chances are more likely that you're gonna say "man, he's killing it with that tone, and it's so clean". This is one of the things that you do, as you get older - you either go deaf, or you give up distortion for the sake of having a box on the floor, and just put out the tone that was inside of you all along. Trust me on this one. </good ol' days word> HTH sumgai
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Post by Yew on Aug 1, 2011 17:54:33 GMT -5
Is it just me, or is the sweet filter a Mid cut, in 'Accoustic' Mode and cutting everything but the mids on the other end?
There are some pretty good sounds on there, No broadbucker though...
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 20:41:07 GMT -5
OK, we've had some discussion, some debate and some conjecture...but the long and the short of it for me is that I really haven't got a clue on how this little tone module works.
Is this essentially the same same direction that roadtonever took with his passive EQ thread, or is this something entirely different?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by sumgai on Aug 2, 2011 22:22:59 GMT -5
^^^^ RTN is essentially on the right track, if he wants to take so far as to duplicate what the demonstrated circuit can do. I believe that he was shooting for a different goal, and arrived at it, but if he were to "futz around" a bit....... I did miss one thing earlier: MarketingSpeak. Even as we are looking at it as gearheads, someone is trying his damnedest to sell this thing. They should've been required to post a Warning blurb prior to that quoted text, something like "Danger, Will Robinson, Feldergarb Ahead!.
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Post by newey on Aug 2, 2011 22:23:12 GMT -5
I don't know how he does it, either, but I'll bet the answer lies somewhere near the intersection of this: Schaller Tone Circuitthis: Diagram Check (Q Filter)this: Hi/Low Cut Tone Controland this: L6-S WiringAnd both RTN and Ozboomer have done (or proposed) some similar tone controls/filters. Note also ChrisK's suggestion of transformers for inductor use, with possible multiple values using both halves. This is another of those ideas that we got off onto a while back, but so far as I know, no one's done any actual experimentation with the idea.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 22:33:21 GMT -5
Well, the reason this intrigues me is that in Project #2 the control cavity is big enough to park a Deuce and a Quarter in...so if I can get a good handle on the concept I'd be willing to take a shot at it...
I'll peruse the aforementioned threads and see what I can come up with.
I'll be working on Fleetwood Mac time, so don't bother leaving a light on... I'm still trying to get my head around RTN's design module...
HTC1
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Post by roadtonever on Aug 3, 2011 0:49:11 GMT -5
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Post by ChristoMephisto on Aug 4, 2011 9:14:07 GMT -5
Wiki says the L6S used a 1.8H inductor add the .01 cap and you get about 1186Hz with a 1.5H inductor, you'd need a .012 for 1186Hz , using the Woman Tone cap .015uf you get 1060Hz there's a great LC calculator over on DGB Studios under Wiring
The BC Rich Mockingbird uses a 500mH inductor with different cap values .0082@2k5Hz .047@1kHz .1@700Hz .15@600Hz .33@390Hz
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chase
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 30
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Post by chase on Aug 16, 2011 17:57:45 GMT -5
I've been very curious about this circuit too - as I understand it, it was developed from a Pultec EQ and is more of a shelving filter than a mids filter or Varitone. I could be mistaken, though. Is there a good way to make a passive shelving filter?
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