bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 2, 2011 12:57:27 GMT -5
Hello!
So I've upgraded my american special stratocaster with a couple of items including graph-tech nut, graph-tech stringtrees and new sperzel staggered locking tuners, but ive still got a problem. It seems as if the angle on the low e string is still too sharp, with staggered tuners i would have imagined that the angle on all strings between nut and tuner would be about the same, but the low e string clearly stands out, is this how its supposed to be?
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 13:14:06 GMT -5
Have you got a picture?
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 2, 2011 14:35:27 GMT -5
yeah just took one, might not be the best picture but you can clearly see the difference in angle the others are ok though, maybe not exact but good enough i think (EDITed by sumgai to make the picture magically appear!)
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 17:36:03 GMT -5
Just for reference, here's your image: I've noticed that not all staggered locking tuners are created equal. Some sets come in 6 different staggers, where others come with 3 heights paired, where others come with only two different heights. Examples: Your E and A tuners look a tad short, but they look about right with the next pair of D and G staggers. Your break-over to the low E string is more pronounced, not a completely uncommon phenomenon, but without measuring the angle it's hard to tell if what is currently visible will be an issue. You must not have much of a peg sticking out for the B and high E strings with this set. Ideally, you want the break-over angle to be from 6 degrees to 12 degrees over all strings in order for the staggered tuners to be effective, and a roller string tree may still be needed on the B and high E strings. There is a dual purpose to the staggered locking tuners. The first one is pretty straight forward...to lock the string. The second purpose, and the reason for the staggers, is to allow you to remove the string trees and still maintain a good break-over angle from the nut to the tuners. The point of this is to lessen the friction for whammy bar enabled guitars. Less friction enables greater tuning stability...or so the theory holds...it's the same reason you radius the string through holes in the bridge just past the saddles...but I digress... Hope some of this helps. Happy Trails Cynical One
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 2, 2011 18:03:38 GMT -5
hey, thanks for the reply yes you are right, they are staggered in 3 different heights. the lowest tuners barrely have a peg sticking out at all. im really trying to get my stratocaster tremolo working well, but seems like im trying to swim upstream. i saw some gotoh tuners where you could adjust the string post, which must be an advantage. i dont want to feel reckless with my money and just buy another set and not being able to do anything with these i really need some advice on what to do
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 18:21:25 GMT -5
Can you get a few shots of the entire headstock from the side and the end looking down the fingerboard?
I'd really like to see what you're up against before I start tossing out ideas...
Get comfortable with the idea that you may be eBaying the set you have for the Gotohs... For the money they're one of the best locking tuners you can find. You can spend more, but the additional coinage isn't going to buy you much more.
You might want to spend some time on the manufacturer's sites looking for drawings to make sure you have enough extension to make it through your headstock and still have enough to grab a string.
This is a process most people get warm and fuzzy with the more you work with aftermarket components. Some are good, some are not so good for your application. Measure twice and buy once...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 2, 2011 18:36:23 GMT -5
hey thanks again for the reply. i'll see if i can get a better camera to get some good shots, ive got a few more questions though, im looking for the best bridge upgrade you can get on a stratocaster(both for tone and tuning stability) any ideas would prefer if there was no woodwork involved, the tremolo is a 6 point with 54 mm string spacing i think.
also something i've been thinking about, the headstock on the american special is "bigger" than the usual strat headstock, does this have anything to do with it ?
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 2, 2011 20:04:55 GMT -5
i decided to buy a new wilkinson vsv400p bridge and gotoh hapm tuners that are height adjustable. guess ill keep the sperzels for another project.
thanks for the help!
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 2, 2011 20:16:47 GMT -5
Well, that was a quick decision... I've never used one, but I'm planning on using one on Project #3. This system is the most intriguing one I've seen for a straight Strat trem replacement: BladeRunner - Non-Locking TremoloNot that this is the only high end unit, but the spring steel used in the design seems to me to be the slickest solution to the problems that tend to develop the longer you own the guitar and use the trem-leo. Others will drop by with their suggestions, all of which have merits and should be considered before you pull the trigger. The "wilkinson vsv400p bridge and gotoh hapm tuners" are very good pieces of hardware. You can't go wrong with them either. And Sperzel locking tuners are good pieces of gear, that have a good resale and name recognition. They should be easy to sell if you decide to. They just aren't working for your application...it happens... Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by newey on Aug 2, 2011 20:47:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I was going to ask if the headstock was thicker than the usual dimensions.
I've used Wilkinson 6-screw bridges in several guitars, I like 'em for the price. I don't use the whammies much, so spending extra to ensure better tuning stability, etc, doesn't count for much by me. There are pricier units out there, but if the main difference is in the action of the vibrato, it's not worth it to me personally.
Of course, a wicked whammier's mileage may vary . . .
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 3, 2011 8:52:58 GMT -5
yeah i checked the bladerunner out, but cant get hold of it in sweden i think,so decied to go with the wilkinson which i can buy from a swedish site, if something is wrong with the device i can just go to the shop and ask for a new one.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Aug 3, 2011 15:39:27 GMT -5
that blade runner, as cool as the spring steel pivot seems, has a big problem (as far as I can tell from their site) in that is isnt floating, making it dive only. And even if you dont pull up on the whammy much, if the bridge hits the body, it makes for a clunky sounding wiggle. I had my fender 6hole set up non floating and didnt like it for that reason mostly. Also, I *do* pull up kinda frequently.
EDIT: I stand somewhat corrected, one of their videos does say you can float the trem. As does the install pdf. But I cant figure out how. Must be that the pivot spring is a bit curved up and you can adjust by the springs.
On the staggered tuners, can anyone vouch for their effectiveness? can you really eliminate string trees?
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Post by thetragichero on Aug 3, 2011 15:48:13 GMT -5
i have string trees on all of my fender-style guitars because i've found that even with angled headstock and staggered tuners, the sympathetic vibrations above the nut made the guitars sound terrible YMMV
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 3, 2011 18:30:20 GMT -5
Staggered tuners are a nice touch if you've got the coin. Personally, I prefer the 6 stepped staggers, but all styles serve essentially the same purpose. You probably will still need a roller string tree for the B and high E strings.
The combination of the locking function and staggered height does have an advantage over conventional tuners and a locking nut.
Is it a big difference? Well, your mileage may vary. A lot of the benefits are directly dependent on your style. I know that's a half-assed answer, but I'd be lying to you if I said anything else.
The attraction for me to the Bladerunner is the fact that once installed you never have metal abrading wood or metal in the business end of the vibrato. I've seen more then my share of 6 hole Fender trem-leo's that have dug a trench in the body. The two pivot Fender trems are kinder and gentler, but wear over time effects their tuning stability as well.
And yes, $150.00 US is a bit stiff for a Fenderesque trem, but it's one of those situations where buying it right means you only buy it once. Over time I have developed a distinct acrimony for cheap hardware. Normally, what it does save you it in coins it more then costs you in the compromises you make. But, that's just an opinion, not to be taken as Gospel, or meant to illicit flames or heated debate.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by newey on Aug 3, 2011 21:10:32 GMT -5
I had one of those once. Don't tell my wife . . . ;D ;D ;D If you did tell her, however, she would elicit flames- from my torched keester.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 3, 2011 21:22:18 GMT -5
I had one of those once. Don't tell my wife . . . ;D ;D ;D If you did tell her, however, she would elicit flames- from my torched keester. So, Captain Phonics rides again...OK...fine...elicit...elicit flames...
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Post by JFrankParnell on Aug 3, 2011 22:36:25 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Aug 4, 2011 2:37:49 GMT -5
What JFrank quoted about a floating bridge.....
That's all fine and dandy, but if that piece of metal is flat to begin with, then that means one of two things:
a) The four screws are not holding down the plate to the body tightly; or
b) The piece of metal is now "pre-flexed" in a direction (downwards), and it has less travel distance before it bottoms out, compared to going the other way (raising the pitch by either pulling the arm, or leaning on the back of the bridge with the heel of your hand - like I do it.)
Still and all, not a bad piece of engineering. Might have to look into that one......
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 4, 2011 7:08:55 GMT -5
The Bladerunner, from what I can tell, is not exactly a drop in and go replacement...especially if you decide to go with their locking system at the nut.
It does lock down to the body in the 4 screw body mount style.
And based on the small amount of travel required the spring steel should be slightly stiffer when raising the pitch with it versus dropping the pitch, but I doubt you'd even notice while playing as your not fighting the spring tension.
It really isn't designed as a floating system in the traditional "Floyd Rose" sense, but it does solve the most recurring problem with the screw mounted trem-leo system.
Let me know how you like it, sg, if you do pull the trigger...you are one of the more judicial fellows here...
Happy Trails
Scott
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sjsrocks
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Post by sjsrocks on Aug 30, 2011 20:49:45 GMT -5
I would highly recommend the Bladerunner. I tried out one in one of my strats, Now all 4 of my strats have Bladerunner's on them. Not only do they stay in tune (if you set them up right) but your guitar's sustain is much better then stock tremolo's. I think the Tone is much better also.
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