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Post by DarKnight on Jul 11, 2005 16:32:09 GMT -5
I have been wondering if I can wire switch for humbucker such a way that I get coils parallel, series and series out of phase options. I would like to have this selection for mini 3-way switch.. I tried to make wiring myself, but I suck in this type of thinking (though it's not very complicated). I tried to make this wiring for two pole on-on-on switch.. but didn't success.. if anyone could help me with this.. if such a wiring is possible... three pole on-on-on switch just came up in my mind.. would it make wiring easier/possible? In a nutshell: Four wire hum, options: series, parallel, series out of phase. Please.. if someone has time to help newbie.. please do...  Sorry about that messy text.. tired :X Thx anyway... |
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Post by CheshireCat on Jul 11, 2005 16:43:28 GMT -5
I have been wondering if I can wire switch for humbucker such a way that I get coils parallel, series and series out of phase options. I would like to have this selection for mini 3-way switch.. I tried to make wiring myself, but I suck in this type of thinking (though it's not very complicated). I tried to make this wiring for two pole on-on-on switch.. but didn't success.. if anyone could help me with this.. if such a wiring is possible... three pole on-on-on switch just came up in my mind.. would it make wiring easier/possible? In a nutshell: Four wire hum, options: series, parallel, series out of phase. Please.. if someone has time to help newbie.. please do... Sorry about that messy text.. tired :X Thx anyway... Series and Parallel are easy. Out of phase will cancel the pickup signal and give you a ton of hum in it's place. A better choice would be Series/Split (or half-phased)/Parallel. That all said, I am not particularly impressed with Series or Parallel switching in Humbuckers. It's usually better to get that kind of wiring between two different humbuckers that are quite a distance apart from each other. That way you get a pronouced effect and don't lose a ton of signal on the OOP option. Chesh |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 11, 2005 22:23:06 GMT -5
Most people would agree with CheshireCat, but I am one of the few enthusiasts for OOP wiring of a humbucker, as a super thin and bright option on a guitar with a wide range of sounds. If you have it on two pickups, it can be used to cancell hum with the other pup, even though in itself, it hums. The thin sound cam be deepened if you have adjustable poles, so that the two coils do not cancell out so much.
With the right type of two pole on-on-on toggle switch , you can do series, parallel, single. Or you can do series, single, series out of phase. I dont however, think you can have series, parallel, out-of-phase.
My belief is that to do what you want needs a 3 pole switch, but with three separate connections for each pole. I don't think it can be done with a mini-toggle (even with three poles), because even an on-on-on does not have a separate third connection for each pole. So you need a 3-pole 3-way (3P3W), or larger. It would be a lever or a rotary switch.
Quite common is a 3P4W switch, with which you can add another option. With that switch , you can wire any four choices of series or parallel, in or out of phase or either single coil (ie any four of them out of six possibilities).
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Post by Runewalker on Jul 11, 2005 22:41:04 GMT -5
I would have to weigh-in with JH on the value of Series/Parallel/Single within a single humbucker. It is like haveing a full range EQ through the switch settings, adding more treble or bass depending which setting you select. Between series and parallel there is a perceptible but not intolerable change in output level, depending on your pups. This is more pronounced with the single coil, but I control signal output to the amp on the floor through my GNX, so those are not sig diffs.
In/out of phase within a humbucker is a more specialty setting, but interesting. JH has set up a design with those 4 + the ability to choose between which single coil is selected, for 5 options within each humbucker.
Hum noise is abetted but not eliminated with effective shielding.
Well most two bucker systems are joined in parallel, not in series so I'm not quite clear on this point.36 Unless you mean going singles in each then switching to system series. JH pronounces two buckers in series, "wooly."
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Post by DarKnight on Jul 12, 2005 3:49:58 GMT -5
I got that series out of phase -idea from Atchleys T-riffic modification . I was wondering if that series OOP would work same way with humbuckker as it does with Atchleys Tele (twangie-thing)... but unfortunately I don't have any four wire humbuckers available for testing..  But I'll do some testing, when I get my humbuckers... I was just thinking somewhat bizarre wiring for my guitar project and I would like to offer series, parallel and series out of phase for each pup.. and then one switch for choosing wiring between those two pups.. and then blend pot would blend those signals.. and this would be the "rythm"-channel for my guitar.. with this i can make a "preset" for rythm... then i would separate bridge pup from the circuit with the switch.. this "lead"-position would drop out blend pot, volume pot and neck pup circuit.. so i would have series, parallel and series OOP positions for lead and own tone control(neck pup has own tone too btw).. now i can switch between lead-setup and rythm-setup with a flip of single 2-pos switch... coil split has been on my mind.. and pickup wiring switches will be those mini switches... if i can't fit all options in one mini switch.. i have to leave something out.. this plan is only in my mind ATM.. coz my project is still on my table.. neck isn't ready and stuff.. not sure if i ever finish it.. but we'll see  any ideas or better ways to accomplish my goals in this wiring? Edit: I made this quickly.. that you get the idea better.. maybe  koti.mbnet.fi/headshot/TEMP/wiring.PNG |
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Post by Runewalker on Jul 12, 2005 10:18:34 GMT -5
I think John H's HH design gets what you want and more:
This gives you two more options than you request: either single coil of a humbucker. When combined with the opposite coil of the other hum you get humcancelling positions, either system parallel (like a conventional strat) or system series, like the original "Tone Monster." This thing goes way beyond what the Tone Monster envisioned. The rotaries are not expensive thru Mouser.
it looks like with three? pot positons you are building up a strat type guit...
JH's design uses a conventional LesPaul three way toggle, but I suppose you could use a Tele type in the 5 way slot.
The compromises are with three? pot adaptations will need to be made on the pot array, since two spots would be used for the 3Pdt rotaries. There may be an issue in fitting the rotaries in the small part of the pot routs.
You could get a master Vol, master Tone with a concentric, but getting the blend will be a stretch and prob require some wood removal under the pickgard. You may be able to squeeze a mini pot in the space between the 5 way and the vol.
I have been eyeing the pointed part of the lower strat cutout as a possible location for controls or switches, but requires some woodwork.
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Post by DarKnight on Jul 12, 2005 13:27:08 GMT -5
Well the space isn't problem coz i'm building guitar from a scratch.. whole guitar will be made from haaard finnish birch.. never heard guitar made from that.. but i think it will provide nice amount of sustain.. so I will have space for 20 or so pots if needed.. but i'd like to keep amount of switches rather small.. though shiny chrome switches are cool guitar is shaped bit like Charvel Star.. but it has some unique shapes.. i'll prolly post here when/if i finish it i'm still lost with that blend.. not sure how to wire it.. ;X but i'll check those schematics you posted Runewalker.. those seem to help a lot.. thx  i'll try to figure out most of the wiring.. then i'll ask help again if i don't get the blend work.. thx all |
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Post by Runewalker on Jul 12, 2005 15:11:38 GMT -5
You may enjoy the debate and pontificating on "tonewoods and Toneplastices" at: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=coffee&action=display&thread=1119075399That wood should have similar properties to maple, hard, light and dense, with few grain pores. Some of the tone wood dudes claim that maple and the like are bright. If you attend to tight coupling and choice pups with JH's exotic wiring you should have a beast that will be toneful and sustain forever, especially with the hard finish. Of course a floating bridge will mitigate that. Note on JH's designs that he uses a regular pot instead of a dual ganged center detented blend/balance pot, and trust me, he does not like a lot of pots in the signal stream, so when you put 20 in prepare for a stearn lecture. ;D |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 12, 2005 16:09:27 GMT -5
I'm just watching out for your tone RW! (somebody has to....) Dark Knight - if you want to investigate our latest monster, it is also worth loking at the schematic that goes with the wiring diagram that RW pointed to: people.smartchat.net.au/~l_jhewitt/circuits/HHseriesparallels5wayschematicMk2.gifits all on the Tonemonster thread, which starts on 3 pickup designs, and gets to two humbuckers on p3, second to last post |
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Post by Runewalker on Jul 12, 2005 22:43:24 GMT -5
Clarification:
Light colored, not light in weight
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Post by DarKnight on Jul 13, 2005 3:29:12 GMT -5
I'm going to use fixed bridge.. prolly Schaller 456 www.schaller-guitarparts.de/1216.htm and locking nut.. does it really help keeping it better in tune? Locking nut isn't very expensive and I would like to add it if it really makes some difference.. and metallic nut will increase sustain.. I'll also add metal plate under the bridge.. I've read that it increases the sustain too. What it the deal with installing hum pups straight to body? without any rings and springs. Has it something to do with feedback, when guitar vibrates and that way the pups vibrate too? I made a rough calculation.. weight of my main axe (BC Rich Warlock Bronze, it's not as crappy as ppl say.. love the neck) at the moment weights around 4kg... My uncutted birch blank weights something like 8kg.. but I will cut/route out like 50%.. so the body will be around 5-4kg.. then neck and hardware come in.. 6-7kg wouldn't be bad gues.. brr... i don't have to go gym anymore... i need wide strap... but i'm looking for insane sustain without any sustain circuits and stuff.. thanks (again) guys.. i'm practically drowning to wiring ideas, cos i never have time to investigate new material tonight (in Finland 20-23.00, GMT +2) i'll really check all the stuff out... cheers \o/ edit: btw. I've made the body by laminating it from.. maybe 10 pieces.. (piece of wood was cut somewhere 40-50's and it has been in our barn ever since.. so it's prolly good wood for building... i will laminate the neck too.. someday it should be a lot more durable than single piece of wood.. |
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Post by Runewalker on Jul 13, 2005 7:52:10 GMT -5
The Schaller 456 is a nice beefy bridge. Don't think metal under the bridge will really help your goal of massive sustain, The bridge couples with metal inserts into the wood.
I would go with Spertzel Locking Tuners, which would also add more mass to the headstock than the locking bridge. Same effect, much more fluid in adjusting.
I would also think about a rollernut. That will give you the same metal contact, & frictionless string contact for bends. Just like the locking nut, precise machining is required. You don't want to have to shim to height.
They are reducing all points of resonace in the assembly, and increasing coupling continuity. What is the conventional installation? A humbucker suspended by a pup ring, or suspened to the pickgard. So they are eliminating this "suspension effect." Makes engineering sense, not convinced the difference is "hearable."
This requires extreamly precise machining as a direct connect pup has no adjustment in height relative to strings. So you have to know what that optimum height is before you rout. Chicken before the egg?
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Post by DarKnight on Jul 13, 2005 7:59:26 GMT -5
I read about metal plate under the bridge from one guitar book(can't remember name, but it was pretty professional text).. It was Yamaha SG-clone if i remember right.. ill try to find a pic.. and there read that metal plate increases sustain... they didn't say WHY it makes such a thing... if it makes at all i'll find link to that guitar and do more research about that plate.. edit: Yamaha SG2000 lgtu.tripod.com/yamahasg2000/ if i see right.. there is metal plate under the bridge :X edit2: didn't find any info about metal plate under bridge.. maybe it is one way to add few <your currency here> to the price |
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But I'll do some testing, when I get my humbuckers... I was just thinking somewhat bizarre wiring for my guitar project and I would like to offer series, parallel and series out of phase for each pup.. and then one switch for choosing wiring between those two pups.. and then blend pot would blend those signals.. and this would be the "rythm"-channel for my guitar.. with this i can make a "preset" for rythm... then i would separate bridge pup from the circuit with the switch.. this "lead"-position would drop out blend pot, volume pot and neck pup circuit.. so i would have series, parallel and series OOP positions for lead and own tone control(neck pup has own tone too btw).. now i can switch between lead-setup and rythm-setup with a flip of single 2-pos switch... coil split has been on my mind.. and pickup wiring switches will be those mini switches... if i can't fit all options in one mini switch.. i have to leave something out.. this plan is only in my mind ATM.. coz my project is still on my table.. neck isn't ready and stuff.. not sure if i ever finish it.. but we'll see 
i'll try to figure out most of the wiring.. then i'll ask help again if i don't get the blend work.. thx all