~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 1, 2012 0:50:51 GMT -5
Well... My house is all packed up and we're finally ready to move. Unfortunately the moving company isn't ready. So I basically have the next five days off with nothing to do. Why not work on a guitar, right? There is a bit of discussion about this guitar at another fairly recent thread located here. So what we'll be working on here is a 1963 (<--as near as I can figure) Silvertone Kay. A friend of mine rescued it from a dumpster years ago, and I recently decided to turn it into a slide axe. Here are some before shots (copied over from the thread linked above)... Obviously we're in pretty rough shape here. The original nut is cracked all the way through and has been re-glued. The rosewood bridge is chipped where the B string sits, and has been badly repaired. Tuners are shot, frets are worn, the scratch guard is warped and broken, and everything is basically in a bad way. Fortunately, and amazingly, the neck seems to be just fine as far as I can tell. And the electronics are all in working order. A bit of Deoxit on the pots and they should be good as new. Though I do intend to replace the pickups. As I've done with my previous (incomplete : Strat project, I'll post a "to-do" list below, and update it as I go along... Replace nut
Replace tuners
- Replace truss rod cover
- Replace strap buttons
Replace Rosewood bridge with tune 'o matic
- Replace tail piece with string-through design
- Replace pick guard (hopefully with a leather piece of the same shape)
- Replace selector switch
- Replace knobs
- Replace neck bolts and bolt ferrules
Move output jack from pick guard to side of body
- Strip and refinish body and neck
- "Ebonize" Rosewood fretboard with saddle dye from Stewmac
Umm... I think that's it. For now... ;D I've actually already replaced the nut, bridge (saddle portion), and tuners. The nut is pretty much where I'd like it at this stage of my slide playing skills. But it's high enough that proper intonation is impossible. So I'll file it down a bit more and see what happens. I ordered most of the other parts I need last week, and they've all arrived in good order. So I'm ready now to tear things down and get to work. The pickups are humbucker-sized P-90's (Dream 90's from GFS). So the pick guard (and body cavity) will have to be reshaped accordingly. I ordered a plastic pick guard blank from which I'll fashion a "practice run" (or two, or three : before figuring out how to make the leather one that I'd like to end up with. Anyway... Off to work! I'll post back by the weekend with my results. Comments are welcome!
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Post by newey on Mar 1, 2012 1:19:55 GMT -5
Well, you've obviously decided not to go the restoration route . . .
If the neck is fine, why replace the neck bolts and ferrules? Why mess with the neck/body joint if everything is OK with it?
Some of the lower-end '60s era guitars not only bolted the neck to the body but glued it as well, which can lead to destruction if you try to remove it. Be careful!
And, while I'm a big fan of the GFS Dream 90's (I put one in my Hofner travel git a while back), those vintage Kay pups probably sound warm and sweet- they may be the best thing about the guitar. I'd keep those and save the GFS ones for another project . . .
If you're set on ditching the original pickups, throw 'em up on Ebay, you can finance a lot of other parts with what you'll get for them . . .
As long as you're not concerned with keeping it original, I'd also plan on moving the selector switch elsewhere, it looks like it would be in the way of your playing where it is now. I'm wondering if that's the original position for that switch anyway, the pickguard may have been replaced at some point. I say that, although I don't know that I've ever seen an Airline exactly like this one- but that pickguard looks like it was ill-fitted, and the "mother-of-toilet-seat" look came around a bit later on, IIRC.
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 1, 2012 4:30:36 GMT -5
Well, you've obviously decided not to go the restoration route . . . Nope ;D Well... It's a cosmetic thing when you boil it down. All of the hardware needs to be black. Everything seems okay at the neck joint. No glue, and a nice snug fit. You might be right Newey. I have almost no experience with P-90's. I really can't say that I have a problem with the stock pups. But I assumed that it couldn't hurt to try something new. Excellent points all around Newey. I had considered moving the switch, and I'm frankly on the fence about it. I agree that it's not convenient in its current position. I'd prefer it by the bottom horn. But then we're looking at even more drilling and/or routing. We'll see what happens as things progress. You might be right about the thing having been modified, as I've also not been able to find one quite like it. Thanks for the comments!
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Post by roadtonever on Mar 1, 2012 5:11:43 GMT -5
That will look awesome when you're done with it. Do yourself a favor though, check for any structural issues in the neck that manifests as poor action and/or buzzing.
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Post by newey on Mar 1, 2012 7:09:30 GMT -5
As for the switch, if you're moving the out jack to the side, it can go where the output jack is now, probably without any added routing.
But that raises another point. Why rout for a new output jack on the side anyway? That's a lot trickier to do than moving the switch to the lower bout; your new pickguard will disguise any errors there, not so on the side.
You also could do away with the switch entirely, and use push/pull pots to control the pickups in a "binary tree" arrangement, or just use the separate vol pots to turn one pickup down/off.
The binary tree switching has the advantage of getting you the series combo; the downside is that it's a bit fiddley since you have 2 P/Ps to manipulate.
My P-bass clone uses the binary tree arrangement- in addition to the regular P-bass split pickup, it has a single rail Strat pickup hidden beneath the pickguard. So the 2 P/Ps give me all the options with a stealth look since there's no visible switch.
Since you have 4 pots, you could also add a 3rd P/P to do phase as well.
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 1, 2012 17:43:36 GMT -5
That will look awesome when you're done with it. Do yourself a favor though, check for any structural issues in the neck that manifests as poor action and/or buzzing. The neck seems to be good so far. I had noticed previously that there was no relief to it, and was a bit frustrated because I didn't have a wrench to adjust this type of truss rod. But after having it strung up for a couple of weeks it did develop a slight bow. No buzzing or other issues that I noticed though. We'll see what happens after I get it rebuilt... As for the switch, if you're moving the out jack to the side, it can go where the output jack is now, probably without any added routing. True... But if I'm going to bother moving the switch I may as well put it where I like it. By the lower horn ;D. But like I said - I'm still on the fence about all that. You're right. It was tricky! Especially since the jack plate I got was slightly recessed around the hole where the jack comes through. It took some careful work with the Dremel, but I got it. I did put a bit of thought into the electronics. I do want to keep the switch. I think it makes life easier in the long run. Plus that leaves my knobs open for adding the fun stuff later. When I get a new body and neck for my partscaster project I'm going to set up the old body such that I can swap pickups and rewire easily. So I think I'm going to leave this guitar with the stock wiring for now. Then I'll throw the old P-90's in the old partscaster and toy around with wiring until I figure out what I want. I'm finding it hard to imagine what series/parallel and phase switching will do to a set of P-90's. So I think I'm better off waiting until I can play with it at my leisure. Besides - there are some pretty darned vintage looking caps in there! I don't know if they're considered good vintage caps. But they sure look old and gritty. Sort of fits the personality of the guitar so far! I'll get some shots of the electrics next time I post pics... Anyway... I've installed the new tuners. The holes were too small, so I had to drill them out to fit the 9mm bushings (yep - they were too small for standard vintage tuners : . The new tune 'o matic is also in place. And I got the jack moved to the side of the body. Next on the list is drilling the string-through holes. I'm not sure exactly how to go about this to be honest. From what I've read - the biggest concern is getting the holes back far enough so that the string doesn't touch the back of the bridge after it breaks over the saddle. My plan was to adjust the bridge way up, and move the saddles forward as far as they would go. Then I can take a piece of a high E string and lay it over the two E saddles to figure how far back the holes need to be. I've seen them drilled parallel with the bridge, angled, and even in a "V" configuration. So I'm guessing it doesn't really matter much how they go, as long as they clear the back of the bridge? If anyone has any thoughts on this I'd sure appreciate some input. In the meantime I'll dig up some 2" masking tape and get the pick guard blank covered so I can start tracing and sketching the shape for the new one. Thanks again for all the comments!
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 1, 2012 18:02:41 GMT -5
I laughed sofa king hard when I read that. +1 for humor. No offense intended, Max, but that guitar is so ugly only a mother could love it. A major contributing factor is the shape and material of that pickguard. The bridge pickup is positioned more like a middle pickup. If you aren't planning to move it closer to the bridge, I'd suggest at least mounting it so it's straight for cosmetic reasons. Even if you keep the existing pots, consider relocating them. Unless you adjust your tone controls often, having the volumes closer would seem a better choice. Normally I would give you a ration of crap for dying a rosewood board. Scrubbing it with ammonia and water to remove the grime and oiling it with mineral oil would probably result in a great look. But since you have damage you're trying to mask, dying might actually be a better choice. Anyway, good luck.
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Post by Yew on Mar 1, 2012 18:07:41 GMT -5
Maybe it could be easier using a standard Stopbar configuration?
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Post by newey on Mar 1, 2012 19:27:59 GMT -5
Thanks, but it's not original. That really is what people call that stuff around the vintage guitar world.
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 1, 2012 20:46:11 GMT -5
Maybe it could be easier using a standard Stopbar configuration? That would indeed be easier! However, "standard" would be rather... Well... Standard. I had considered splurging and going with a Baby Grand bridge... ...but at $90 a pop I couldn't justify it. There seem to be mixed opinions on what a string-through design does to tone and sustain. In the end I opted to go this route purely for cosmetic reasons. It just seemed to be fitting for this project somehow. No offense intended, Max, but that guitar is so ugly only a mother could love it. A major contributing factor is the shape and material of that pickguard. No offense taken! In fact I'm rather glad that you see the potential of this thing. ;D Wait 'til you see what I have planned for the finish and hardware! I'm not sure if it became c k-eyed like that due to the pick guard warping, or if it was installed carelessly. Either way I'll fix it with the new design. I hadn't thought about it actually. I'm guessing I'll wind up sussing that out after I reconfigure the electrics at a later date. But I'll sure keep it in mind! ;D Damage or no... I'm afraid it would still have been "Ebonized". I have a complex.
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 1, 2012 21:01:26 GMT -5
Thanks, but it's not original. That really is what people call that stuff around the vintage guitar world. Yeah... This is the closest thing I can find right now... The site says this one's a '67. A few years ago I ran across a pic of one that was pretty much the same as above, but it had two pups in about the same positions as mine are. Black pick guard and no trem though. I'm fairly certain that one was labeled as a '63. Though that could have been a mistake. I can't for the life of me find that pic now. May have been an Ebay auction.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 1, 2012 21:42:32 GMT -5
As long as you're going to redo the neck fastening system, let me steer you to a great tutorial sonosonny did on Installation of neck inserts/machine screws. This is not as difficult as it looks, and will make a significant improvement to the neck joint. There's plenty of pictures and he explains the process thoroughly. Although I have to agree that the guitar is far from a "beauty", it has something most modern guitars do not have...even the expensive ones...and that's very stable neck and body wood. You replace the tuners, bridge and nut on this guitar and I think you'll surprise more then a few people with it. And the simple Tune-o-Matic and a stop bar will be more then sufficient, and allow you to raise the action higher if necessary...and even an old bar of soap would have been an improvement over what you had to start with... And I like Jack White, but I wouldn't use his pickups... It might be worth a shot to A-B the originals with whatever you replace them with, but I think you'll be happier with something from this century. You seem to have everything more then under control. It'll be interesting to see what you finally arrive at. And if it were me, I'd go with a deep red tortoise shell on the pickguard... ...for what it's worth... This one will be fun to watch. Happy Trails Cynical One
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 4, 2012 13:31:17 GMT -5
That's a great post! I'll definitely be attempting that mod. Probably not right away, but in the near future. Thanks! If I were going "run-of-the-mill" on this one that would probably be my first choice. But I'm pretty stuck on the leather idea. I figure if I follow you suggestion (from the other thread) on the wood finish, I can dye the leather black and rough it up with some sand paper, or maybe even a rasp and give it a "distressed" look. We'll see what happens though... I got a bit behind the curve the last few days with this project. I realized I'd need a drill press to do the string-through holes. I looked into some of the inexpensive drill chuck attachments, but couldn't find any of them locally. After fiddling around with some DIY options, I wound up purchasing the Dremel drill press accessory. Not as stable as a real drill press, but hopefully I'll be able to pull it off. Decided that the router attachment would make cutting the pick guard easier too, so I had to pick one of those up. Hopefully I'll get around to that stuff later today or tonight. Then I'll post some "in progress" pics.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 4, 2012 14:52:02 GMT -5
I'm pretty stuck on the leather idea. I figure if I follow you suggestion (from the other thread) on the wood finish, I can dye the leather black and rough it up with some sand paper, or maybe even a rasp and give it a "distressed" look. We'll see what happens though... Just keep in mind that leather is going to significantly deaden the tone from the guitar. Dye and abrasions will also contribute to drying out the leather and cause it to react in potentially undesirable ways. You want something unique? Head over to any hobby shop and scare up a piece of 3/32" railroad model plywood. Then find some burl veneer. Veneer the plywood and use your old pickguard as a routing template. Dye or stain to taste and coat with poly, or marine epoxy if you feel froggy enough. This can be a very versatile tool. Work at low RPMs and always, repeat, ALWAYS, locate your holes with a centerpunch, or a nail if that's all you've got. While much more stable then a freehand hole, the Dremel will walk on you at high RPMs if you're just counting on the force to steady your aim. It's also a good idea to take some 3M blue tape to cover the body. This serves two purposes. It offers a measure of protection and allows you to draw out your holes centers and locations. Practice on some scrap first. This can be a useful attachment, but the learning curve can be vicious if you start out with your only good piece of material. Nothing beats a traditional router and router table for this type of work. It ain't cheap, but the right tools rarely are. Good luck. Happy Trails Cynical One
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on May 30, 2012 22:56:03 GMT -5
Just a quick note to anyone who was following this project. After having moved to another state my "honey-do" list has grown wildly out of control. I'll get back to this axe as soon as I can. But right now the wife (4 months pregnant) is calling all the shots. I'm sure you'll all understand if I don't argue with her...
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Post by yakkmeister on May 31, 2012 5:20:13 GMT -5
Looking forward to seeing this one done!
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Post by reTrEaD on May 31, 2012 5:47:34 GMT -5
Only four months and she's calling all the shots? I shudder to think what the next five are gonna be like for you. And the six after that. Best wishes, brother.
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