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Post by axekicker on Mar 2, 2012 18:07:37 GMT -5
I have a 24 fret neck with a hideous blue lacquer on the neck and fret-board and headstock - everywhere basically. I want to sand it off, but without having to re-fret. Can I just remove the frets with my fret pullers and then re-install them with my fret hammer, or are frets useless once they're pulled? Thanks!
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Post by axekicker on Mar 2, 2012 18:08:32 GMT -5
Oh, forgot to mention that the fingerboard has white binding. Another reason I can't attempt a re-fret.
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 2, 2012 19:29:49 GMT -5
Oh, forgot to mention that the fingerboard has white binding. Another reason I can't attempt a re-fret. If you have binding that can't be removed, removing and reinstalling your frets would be a mess. I have a 24 fret neck with a hideous blue lacquer on the neck and fret-board and headstock - everywhere basically. I want to sand it off, but without having to re-fret. Can I just remove the frets with my fret pullers and then re-install them with my fret hammer, or are frets useless once they're pulled? Thanks! Your fret puller is likely to damage the frets when you remove them. And the process of removing the frets usually mangles some of the tangs that hold the frets in. When replacing frets, they should be longer than the fretslots. After installation, you file or grind the frets to the correct length. If you try to press a fret of the exact length into the slot, it's likely to overhang on one end and have a gap at the opposite end. Getting it located perfectly is nearly impossible. Fret press > fret hammer. If you must refret a bound neck, plan on removing the binding and replace it AFTER the frets have been installed and trimmed.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 2, 2012 20:24:12 GMT -5
Once you pull the frets they are useless. Binding or no binding. New frets are cheap and as long as you're going to pull them it makes little sense to expend the same amount of work trying to refit used frets...new frets are the only way to go. And with the binding you will probably need to trim the tang on the fret to allow for the overhang on the new frets. You can do it the hard way and cut and file them all by hand, or you can purchase a fret tang nipper: Count on a fast $50.00 on that tool. You might want to try some Kleen Strip KS-3 stripper. That stuff is pretty strong and may remove said finish if it is lacquer with little or no effort on your part. Don't forget the Afterwash. Based on the way you describe the paint job it's one of two things. A hack job that will come off easily, or a catalyst finish that will be a mother to remove. It might be easier to just buy a new neck. It will certainly be faster...and probably cheaper... You can also try a heat gun and a scraper to remove the finish. Be careful with this method as depending in the wood under said finish it can scorch easily if you're not careful. Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by axekicker on Mar 15, 2012 17:00:53 GMT -5
OK, so scratch that idea. You guys are right, it'd be a mess. I'm not there yet. However, StewMac seems to have a very cool Fret Arbor press for under $200 that looks useful. Anyone seen/used it?
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Post by newey on Mar 15, 2012 18:22:22 GMT -5
Seen it in pictures in their catalog, never used it or any other (haven't tried a refret yet . . .) But it seems foolish to me to spend $200 on a tool to do one neck. I don't know what type/quality of neck you have (other than "24 fret" and "hideous blue" ), but decent quality replacement necks can be had for somewhat less that that. Now, if the goal of this is learning how to refret, that's another story. I think cyn1 had the best suggestion. Stripper is cheap. (Stripper s, on the other hand, will cost you . . ;D ) You will very quickly find out if the finish is of the easily-removable variety. If it is, yes, it'll be a bit messy but it's your best bet to salvage this neck at minimum cost and labor input. If it's a rock-solid finish, then you can make an intelligent decision on how much time and money you want to invest in this particular neck. Also bear in mind that the blue paint job may have been applied for a reason.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 15, 2012 19:56:23 GMT -5
...However, StewMac seems to have a very cool Fret Arbor press for under $200 that looks useful. Anyone seen/used it? Yes they do. And if you plan on doing multiple necks in the future, the press, caul and related radius brass inserts are a good investment. If this is for one neck, then it's either for an exercise, hobby, or throwing money away. For the $200.00 you can get a damn nice neck ready to go. Any arbor press will work. You can just buy the caul and inserts for around $50.00. Toss another $10.00 for the neck cradle caul to hold the neck. Go to Harbor Freight and score the same Chinese arbor press for $20.00. For that matter, you can chuck up the caul in a drill press. Then there's the leveling, crowning and polishing. None of this is brain surgery, but it is an investment in tools and equipment. It's an economy of scale. The more necks you'll do, the more the expense is justified. For one neck it is a very expensive way to go on a neck that you know little about, aside from its paint job. I guess the real question here is what are your long term intentions? Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 15, 2012 21:20:09 GMT -5
Looks like I'm late to the party............ You haven't said what kind of wood the fingerboard is made of; which would affect your plan of attack, sort of. If it's rosewood or a similar porous wood, you're not likely to get all that blue paint out of the pores without a lot of sanding. You may even have to remove so much wood to get down past the pores that you'd render the neck useless. If it's maple it has smaller pores, but it's still somewhat porous. That would be a lot more do-able, but still require a lot of sanding. People refret bound necks all the time, without removing the binding- you just have to notch the fret tangs to accomodate the bindings. That's easy- you can use the fret tang nipper that cynical1 refers to, or just use this fret cutter . I just recently fretted 2 necks and notched my fret tangs this way. Same results only this way the tool has 2 uses. If you watch the video, check out how Eric Coleman does it- it really does work just like that. You will have to be able to clean the fret slots up close to the binding, which will take some care. The reviews are not great on Stew- Mac's arbor press, and for that reason I've held off on buying one. I've checked out the ones at Harbor Freight & they'll do the job- with some modifications. One, the ram is solid metal so you'd need to drill a hole in it to accept the Stew- Mac arbor, and a smaller. threaded hole for a set screw to hold it in place. I've been using my drill press with the Stew- Mac arbor & cauls with no problems- in fact, it seems like every fret job I do gets easier- IMO a drill press is all you need unless you want to go into the fretting business. As newey & cynical1 have mentioned; I guess it boils down to what you want to get out of all this- if you want to go the DIY route that's cool - just for the fun of doing the work. Also cool if you want to get into that aspect of guitar repair- power to ya, as they say. But if you just want to save one neck- really, a neck that may or may not turn out nice- the DIY route might end up being quite a bit more expensive than just buying a new neck. Just my 2 cents ........... -lpf3
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 15, 2012 21:25:06 GMT -5
Go to Harbor Freight and score the same Chinese arbor press for $20.00. For that matter, you can chuck up the caul in a drill press. Just a thought. If you already have a drill press and are only going to do one fretjob, don't waste the money on an arbor press. For that matter, if you don't have a drill press, you still might want to not buy the arbor press. Buy a drill press. It will cost more, but you're sure to find tons of uses for it. I think cyn1 had the best suggestion. Stripper is cheap. (Stripper s, on the other hand, will cost you . . ;D ) So tempted to post inappropriate pic...
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Post by 4real on Mar 16, 2012 7:21:07 GMT -5
I may be posting something in the near future that will be of interest perhaps...
It sounds like someone went nuts with a spray can...do you have a problem with graphitti?
So yeah, stripper sanding, take it all off, leave the frets in and make sure whatever you plan to do does not eat off the plastic binding, serious, plaint is just plastic, that will really screw things up if it is wrong.
Ok...so having all the paint off, going to have to worry about the finish later...
Likely if it is that crap, it has not been played a lot and the frets are ok under all that. So, get to cleaning it without screwing it up and chemically melting the binding.
If a bolt on, hopefully, take it off the guitar and remove all tuners and anything else, obvious I know, but some people...you never know!
Look up some books or get one on looking after guitars...spray painting things blue will not be included in most reputable tests. Dan Erlwines Guitar Players Guide to guitar Maintenance is a classic and very good...don't think though that you need to buy any or all of those stew mac tools to do that job it promotes, the advice is generally sound and a good reference.
...
I have a guitar, in fact several that could do with a light level and polish and hope if all goes well to photo a bit of a tutorial of doing this without going nuts on the tools and going full bore into fretting and all that. If not, well likely you will see how not to do this kind of thing on the cheap.
The guys are right, the cost of tools and the skills you need to learn are very high, one fret job will not make you an expert or be able to offer your services to recoup the investment...good tools makes it even easier to screw things up some times, it certainly does not guarantee results. You could certainly by a few very nice necks or whole guitars for the cost of that.
so, in a week or two, when I get time perhaps...
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Post by axekicker on Mar 19, 2012 23:51:49 GMT -5
OK, here is the weird blue neck in question. In the videos, I'm trying to get it to shimmer, which it does in normal lighting. The headstock appears to have a flamed maple veneer or something. Thoughts? gallery.me.com/aubreysinger#100277Forgot to mention, it was made by CustomShopParts.com, whose motto was, "We don't care if your taste is bad, so long as your money is good!" They are no longer in business.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 20, 2012 0:02:19 GMT -5
'kicker, I see where MobileMe is about to go bust (disguised as moving to the iCloud......). You might wanna consider moving your linked clip somewhere more permanent, for future reference. (Like, as in, after June 30, 2012.) Just in case you didn't already know. sumgai
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Post by 4real on Mar 20, 2012 5:08:04 GMT -5
Hi Axe
That is a tough one, I wouldn't attempt it, in fact it has a certain charm. The board looks like flame maple and the finish died so even if stripped there would be quite a bit in the surface of the wood and virtually imposable to do anything with the frets in it.
I think perhaps it would be better to work a concept around the neck with this finish than to alter it for appearance only, big task, big learning curve, big ticket on the tools to do it properly...high risk...LOL
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 20, 2012 6:23:22 GMT -5
Hi Axe That is a tough one, I wouldn't attempt it, in fact it has a certain charm. The board looks like flame maple and the finish died so even if stripped there would be quite a bit in the surface of the wood and virtually imposable to do anything with the frets in it. I think perhaps it would be better to work a concept around the neck with this finish than to alter it for appearance only, big task, big learning curve, big ticket on the tools to do it properly...high risk...LOL I agree with all of the above. That's flame maple with blue stain, you'll likely never get that out. But Pete's right- I think it has a lot of charm, in fact it's downright great looking. Why not go with it, and design your guitar around it? -lpf3
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 20, 2012 7:12:02 GMT -5
And just let me piggyback on top of those already heard in saying you ain't never gettin' that dye out of that maple.
You have two options. Dump it or learn to live with it.
You just saved yourself a ton of wasted money and effort by posting those pictures.
And it isn't anywhere near as repulsive as you originally described it. I think the idea of working the body of the guitar around that neck is your best option at this point. That, or eBay...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by axekicker on Mar 21, 2012 13:41:50 GMT -5
Well, thanks for the input. My gut told me to avoid stripping, and my head said at least let the community take a look. My original intention was to make it work with a blue body, but the longer I live with it, the more intimidating it looks. I mean, how do I build around blue flame maple that shimmers fer chrissakes? Should a neck be the visual highlight of a guitar? If it was just blue, fine, but blue flame shimmer?! It's very particular. I got the feeling the last owner ran into this wall. I feel that it needs a body to match, and there is no way I can attempt something like that right now. I can barely handle flux without making a mess. Any ideas for body matching? Is it easier than I think? This neck looks like the by-product of particle physics, not spray paint.
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Post by axekicker on Apr 11, 2012 0:45:17 GMT -5
Neck is up for auction for those interested. Check under my moniker: axekicker. Good luck bidding!
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