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Post by quarry on Apr 7, 2012 12:04:10 GMT -5
Like I really care...  OK, really I do care!!! A client brought this 1977 Martin D-35 to me. He wanted to know if I could do anything to the checking finish, and the pickguard that is lifting off... I told him right off that the checking cannot, and should not be "fixed"... Collectors regard that as a Beauty Mark! Refinishing will reduce the guitar's value by at least 50%... The pickguard is something else... It's not only curling off, but I'm sure I could simply pull if off without adding heat, Would replacing this with a "new" Martin replacement devalue the guitar any? Would removing, and reglueing the existing guard be any better/worse?     |
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2012 12:14:59 GMT -5
I don't know squat about the value of 30-year old Martins, but the first question to be answered is whether the material or style of Martin pickguards has changed at all. If it has, you would need to find a NOS '70s-vintage piece before I would even consider a swap.
There's probably a Martin forum that could answer the question for you definitively, if it's not obvious whether there's a difference between the two materials/styles.
If the new stuff is indistinguishable from the old, I wouldn't think a replacement would destroy the value- although you should certainly save the existing piece "just in case" . . .
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 7, 2012 13:57:31 GMT -5
Well, just because it says Martin doesn't make it a museum piece... On the D-35 anything before 1969 is moderately collectable. After 1969 the collectibility drops. That guitar, as is, probably would just make $2000.00 on a good day as is. With a new pickguard, of any vintage, it's probably still worth around $2000.00.
Here's the skinny on the pickguard from Vintage Guitars:
Style 35 flat top.
Collectibility Rating: D-35 1965 to 1969: C-, D-35 1970 to present: D-.
Rosewood back and sides, 3-piece back with marquetry between sections, ebony bridge, bound ebony fingerboard, dot inlays, volute on neck. First listed in 1965 in D-size only.
1965 Style 35 Introduction specs:
Celluloid tortoise pickguard and body binding.
1967 Style 35 specs:
Black plastic pickguard and body binding.
1970 to present Style 35 specs
Indian rosewood back and sides.
I would be a little concerned about the checking and the way that pickguard curled up... Looks like someone kept it in a basement or attic too long... What does the internal bracing look like? Any separation?
Long and short, you can try and research a vintage 1970's pickguard for this guitar, or just cut a new one from new material. I don't see it being an issue for the owner for another 20-30 years...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by quarry on Apr 7, 2012 14:55:57 GMT -5
After some research of my own, I basically agree with the cynical one... Here are some interesting things: - the area beneath the pick guard is not finished. Some techs like to remove the guard, finish the unfinished area, then glue the guard back in place (this keeps the guard's continued shrinking from pulling on the wood), - one tech says to peel it (the guard, that is) up almost all the way off, then slather some water-based wood glue underneath. Clamp with blocks inside and outside of guitar. Clean up can be done with water. - the only "bad" thing about replacing the guard with new material, is trying to make it look like its not replaced with new material! One key to that end, is to bevel the edges of the new guard using an exacto knife... I may try to fashion some clamping blocks. The block that goes inside the guitar will need some "channels" routed into it, so that the block fits over the braces... now how can I "trace" the brace pattern onto the piece of wood I'll be using as the block?   |
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 7, 2012 18:46:51 GMT -5
...now how can I "trace" the brace pattern onto the piece of wood I'll be using as the block? ... Contour gauge:  Not sure how it's braced, but one of these at the origin and termination of each bracing piece will give you a good set of reference points to cheat from. Just mark them and connect the dots. If you route the channels a bit large to accommodate human error it's not the end of the world. Deep throat clamps are a bigger issue...got any of those?   Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by quarry on Apr 7, 2012 20:03:20 GMT -5
Actually, I do have some deep throat clamps! (Damn, I know I'm gonna get some kinda wise-butt remark from SG over that )
I measured the opening of the sound hole - 4 inches. The guard is just a hair under 4 inches... This should be fun.
PS - hey Cyn... I notice you're from WI. I'm originally from Milwaukee. My sister is still there. She's VERY active in the Recall Walker movement (she's a retired teacher/administrator)... What's your take on ol' Scooter???
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 7, 2012 22:17:56 GMT -5
I was waiting for the wise cracks too... Maybe there's a limit to how far they'll sink...
Provided the old pickguard is still pliable it should go back pretty easily. Hitting it with a hair dryer first to soften it up might help. If it's gotten hard and brittle it might just be best to pull it and refit with a new one.
I'm not from WI originally. I am working on getting the Hell out of here as fast as I can. I think the whole fiasco could have been avoided if the Republicans would have eased into their agenda and done a better job trying to sell it before they just blitzkrieged everyone with it.
Without turning this into another "You suck...no YOU suck" hijacked thread I think the people of this State lose no matter what the outcome of the recall turns out to be. Things have become so divisive here that the odds of anything getting done in the near future are slim. Nothing has been accomplished for the good of the people here to this point, and it's going to be nothing but agenda based legislation here for a long time to come no matter who prevails. It's a real "You're with us, or your against us" mentality on both sides. The voters seem to have taken a back seat to the political wrangling and posturing.
I'm going back to Chicago. At least in Illinois don't screw around with recalls...we put them in jail...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by quarry on Apr 14, 2012 10:48:04 GMT -5
I finally got around to working on this D-35 again... Here are the clamping blocks I made (from some scrap poplar):  Obviously, one goes on the inside, the other, outside the guitar.  Here you can see the channels I routed to account for the braces on the inside of the guitar...  Here you can see how I beveled the edges of the inner block, to make slipping into the sound hole easier. The original pick guard seems pliable and nice, so I'll re-glue it as opposed to a new one. It did shrink a bit, so there will be a noticeable space around the edges... I'll also need to dress up the finish around this edge, since it swells upward where it once met the pickguard. Maybe some fine sanding with 800 grit??? |
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2012 14:03:42 GMT -5
Very nice clamping blocks. That should do it.
Cleaning up old glue from a finish is always fun...more so depending on the type of glue originally used.
Sandpaper or mineral spirits can get most of it up. Small scrapers can come in handy depending on how bad the old residue is.
Keep us in the loop as this one proceeds.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by quarry on Apr 14, 2012 14:29:34 GMT -5
Actually, very little clean-up is needed. This pickguard wasn't attached with glue... Before about 1985, all Martin pickguards (most Gibsons and Guilds, too) were "glued" to the unfinished top before the lacquer finish was applied. Solvent was sprayed or brushed to the back of the plastic pickguard, and then the guard was stuck down on the bare wood surface, effectively bonding plastic to wood. As the plastic shrinks with age and heat exposure, it curls up and comes loose. Sometimes it bends the top wood, causes a crack in the top, or a combination of all those effects. The guard peeled up with very little damage, as shown in these picks:   |
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Post by quarry on Apr 19, 2012 3:02:38 GMT -5
Got 'er all glued up and clamped. That sheet of plastic is to prevent the clamping block from getting glued to the guitar...   And after aprox. 24 hours... Viola!  After cleaning up what little glue had squeezed out around the edges, it now looks pretty damn nice! Since the pickguard began to peel away as a result of shrinking, it is now not as large as it once used to be... there is a small edge of unfinished wood showing around the bottom side of the guard. I still think this looks better than a new guard, which would have looked like a new guard glued onto an old guitar... and this way, it still has its original pickguard.   |
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Post by yakkmeister on Apr 19, 2012 4:55:11 GMT -5
Wow! That's quite involved ...
I hope the customer appreciates your efforts!
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Post by quarry on Apr 19, 2012 5:04:34 GMT -5
Yak, yeah, I know what ya mean... Fortunately for me, he's a surgeon, so he never bats an eye at my bills... |
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Post by yakkmeister on Apr 19, 2012 9:30:03 GMT -5
That's great news! Last thing you need is eyes being batted all over your place - you only have to miss picking up one and you'll scare off all your other customers! |
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OK, really I do care!!!
