The Jazzmaster saga continues...

[phatmarx78]

Hey guys, heres another one regarding my recent Jazzmaster project.

The body is supposedly a 1963, but it looks like it has been refinished 2 or 3 times so it is hard to tell. I believe it is, and their is one very distinguishable "3" on the wood where the neck fastens to the body (could have been 63' originally?). It came with the thimbles for the bridge in it. I just bought a pickguard with all Jazzmaster parts in it, most from 1961, and the one pup is from 1973. Now, when I go to put in the pickguard, I can make it fit, but the holes for the bridge do not line up! Problem with that?

Is their anyway I can figure out that the pickguard is NOT right for this body? Something I could measure to make me say, "oh yeah, thats for a japanese body." The pickguard is newer and from all parts.

Also, Im going to get some new parts soon.
I now need:

A neck
A bridge
A tremolo
misc. screws & hardware.

But right now, my main concern is figuring out this body/bridge problem... Any help would be great guys. Thanks in return!

[cynical1]

While I'm no Jazzmaster expert, I do know that the US and Japanese Jazzmasters are two entirely different beasts.

I don't remember the exact specs off the top of my head, but the bridges are different, and it stands to reason that the pickguards would be different as well.

A little Google time would be well spent.

Once you have the neck you can verify the scale length on the bridge.

What kinds of woodworking tools do you have at your disposal?

Were you going to repaint the body?

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

I was not thinking about repainting the body to be honest. I don't mind the mojo of it, and I'm not concerned too much about a refinish at this point.

I am a glazier by trade, so I have tools, just not mostly related to woodworking.. And I have the basic guitar tools..

In order to get the neck, currently anyway, I would need to sell off this other guitar I have. I am selling a Martin d-1, from recent years, for $500. I figure that I can get the neck made and get the bridge/trem pieces and probably the misc. screws as well...

But their must be an easier way to tell what parts I am dealing with BEFORE I have the neck! That could be 2 months lead time..

Also, since I'm talking the neck, would it be alright to leave it unfinished? Wouldn't this give it a very smooth finish? Or would it be problematic for warping/twisting? I would like to throw a Fender decal on it, and just spray the peg-head with a small amount of ReRanch Nitrocellulose Clear Coat. What do you think Cynical?

[cynical1]

Apr 9, 2012 17:59:16 GMT -5 phatmarx78 said:

I was not thinking about repainting the body to be honest. I don't mind the mojo of it, and I'm not concerned too much about a refinish at this point.

Might not be a problem if the new bridge covers the trem screw holes, and you can get by with the bridge. I don't know what body you have, and I don't know what bridge and trem you have. I'm moving the wife out as we speak, so I have no spare time until the end of the week, and then I've got taxes to do... You can do a few searches on US and Japanese Jazzmaster bridges and trems and know more about it then I do by the end of the week.

But their must be an easier way to tell what parts I am dealing with BEFORE I have the neck! That could be 2 months lead time..

See above.

Also, since I'm talking the neck, would it be alright to leave it unfinished?

Are you asking me what I'd do? I'd finish it. As I've said numerous times before, a hard finish protects the wood. The harder and more durable the finish the longer it does it.

Most warranties are null and void if you oil or leave the neck unfinished. It can warp and twist with a finish, but it'll will almost certainly suffer a premature failure if you don't finish it. Some people drive without seat belts...what do I know...

And as far as the Fender decal...I neither condone nor condemn the practice. For all the work you've done, you may as well make your own decal.

You can download vector art of the logo for free, or download the brush script font...the name escapes me at the moment...for free and make your own. Or you can go on eBay and pay through the nose for a genuine fender font. Be careful, as some of the older decals are varnish applied and that's an art I used to know, but wouldn't attempt anymore.

Waterslide decal stock is available for color inkjet and laserjet printers. It's not hard to do, and there are many tutorials on the web that show you how to do it. I do all of mine with an inkjet printer on the highest resolution the printer can muster.

To properly flush the decal to the headstock is some work. With lacquer it can be 15-20 coats sanded so the logo is flush inside the finish. I do all my headstock decals this way, but I also poly all of them. Lacquer just doesn't hold up for me on a neck. YMMV.

Sorry to be so vague and brief, but I'm on a timeline and have to get back to work.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[sumgai]

phat,

I'd say that your stuffed pickguard is genuine. Fender used a type of celluoid in the late '50s and early '60s that had a habit of shrinking with age, to the point where it cracks if you don't relieve the tension. Taking it off once in awhile (for whatever reason) led to that final time when it just didn't wanna go back on, at least not without risking breaking something.... Most often, a person who values the collectability of his axe, but wants to play it day in and day out, will substitute a newer 'guard, keeping the original under wraps in case of a future sale.

That numeral 3 is probably the inspector's stamp. From the 1960s, it could be either in hand with a pencil or ink, or an actual stamp (with ink). It was most often in the neck pocket, as that was the last thing to be mounted to the body. (Then the nut was installed and cut to fit the strings - all by hand. And it still is, on the MIA models.)

Early bodies, mostly from the early and mid '50s, were sometimes pencilled with a date, and occasionally a worker's initials. This practice stopped sometime around '58 or 59, but not completely - you may see a body with such markings from a later date, but not by too many years. I don't know of any definitive test to assure a person if any such markings are genuine or otherwise. But there might be one out there that I don't know about.

HTH




sumgai

[phatmarx78]

;D

Thanks guys. Just a quick point though...

The pickguard is from all parts.. Its not original..
(facepalm all you want... now sumgai! lol )

Uh oh.. I think its an import model.. It simply looks like it right now from a quick google search, but I will confirm this later...

I now find myself strapped for time too cynical! But thanks for the google search tip!! Seems to never fail


But seriously, confirmation on these parts later..

[cynical1]

Trying to build a guitar from surplus parts always...repeat...ALWAYS takes some rework and research.

My guess is that you have a US body and an import style pickguard. Imports are much more prevalent and it only stands to reason that an aftermarket reseller will stock what they have the best chance of selling.

If you measure the bridge posts and get a confirmation on the imperial measurements, then you know for sure it's a US body. If it centers out metrically, then it's Japanese. I don't know what the difference is off the top of my head, but consult the Oracle (Google) for the details.

I don't remember when they moved the trem to improve breakover across the bridge, but it happened somewhere along the line as I recall.

The pickguard is probably salvageable. Holes rarely line up perfectly on a refit pickguard anyway, so I would be too surprised. How bad is the fit around the bridge and pickguard?

Well, back to the boxes...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

The holes Im not too concerned about.. They usually line up pretty good for most pickguards I gave bought in the past... But I digress..

The holes for where the bridge sould go may be around 1/4 to 5/16 off?
It overlaps, so to speak, past the thimbles for the bridge.

I really hope that it is just the pickguard that is japanese... I should have asked that before I bid, but the electrics and having it already all done was very well worth it.. But like I said I hope its just the pickguard.. I contacted the seller off ebay to try and get an answer.. Nothing yet.. but I have feedback control!!! (terrible really..)

[phatmarx78]

Oh boy guys.. He says it came off a 61 Jazzmaster. Im not sure how this rings.. Im in the process of seeing if it was a reissue or not, or if this is just what he believes.

OR

Could it just be that their is a difference between the models of 61 and 63?? Could the bridge have been changed like cynical said?? Or is that a drastic implication?..

[phatmarx78]

Ok, got some information from both sellers.

Guy with the body almost asuringly believes that it is the pickguard, although he has for auction, another pickguard, that he had on the body witch HAD THE BRIDGE PORTION OF THE NITROCELLULOSE CUT OUT to "accommodate" a Japanese bridge.

Now I have a Japanese bridge, mustang style, that was originally on my Jagstang. When I measure the depth of the thimbles that are in the bridge I get around 1 and 3/16, when I measure the legs with the screws fully extended, I get around that or 1/32 more than that. But it still does not fit proper, and initially, when I go to put it in, it feels to "small" in length, almost like the legs need to be spaced apart more.


The guy who I bought the pickguard off of says it was on a 61 Jazzmaster.

thats all I got out of him... ....

I don't know if that means reissue.. or custom.. or vintage "19"61.. or anything..

He said he wasn't an expert...

Damnit thats not helpful in any way!! ;D

But what I do know is that it is from allparts.
Witch does mean that its not fender or fender spec'd, and Im not sure where it was made. It could just be that it was a custom fitted for the individuals own guitar, I don't know!! I could just cut it like the other gentleman did with his guard, but I don't know what to say!! I need input boys!!

[sumgai]

pm,

OK, if the pickguard says "Allparts" on it, then it's not a gen-u-wine Fender part. But..... Fender has for many years licensed Allparts to make aftermarket replacement parts for use with Fender guitars, meaning that they are indeed "spec'd" to fit Fender bodies and necks. Now that usually means American-built, but not always, as you're finding out.

What it is, is that there are at least two different bridge specs for the Jazzmaster, just as for most other Fender guitar models. For imports, the spacing between high and low E strings is slightly narrower than the original Made In America model(s). Additionally, while the original Jaguars and Mustangs used the same bridge as the Jazzmaster, in later years when the Jagstangs were built, the bridge width was more in line with the Japanese spec.... after all, that's where they were built in the first place.

So now you've got a Duke's Mixture of parts, and your hair is falliing out due to worrying about what to do that will cause the least damage. Fear not!

I personally would cut the pickguard to fit around the bridge butt'y. It's not an original Fender part, so there's no value lost. In fact, take a look at both USACG's and Warmoth's websites, you'll see that's exactly what they did, cut out the area around the bridge thimbles.

Now, even if this thing had been mounted on an original '61 body, that's doesn't mean that the body hadn't been modified at some point in the past - it's been known to happen more than once! But I'd save your '63 body in as pristine a condition as possible, at least insofar as the bridge is concerned. Whereas, you can drill new screw holes as needed for holding down the pickguard, because they're always covered by the 'guard itself, should you find and install a known good original part (that hasn't shrunk way down in size).

HTH




sumgai

[phatmarx78]

Thanks for the input sumgai!!!

Glad to see someones reading the posts!! lol

Well, heres what I did..

I figured it could not hurt to call all parts. The gentleman who picked up answered me like this... "We do not make or sell a pickguard that will fit a 1963 Vintage Fender Jazzmaster."

Bing bang boom, its the pickguard.


I also checked another thing...
I had replaced my Jagstangs bridge system (mustang) to a newer Jaguar styled one (I kept both though). I found out upon measuring the two, that the mustang style bridge posts measure around 5/8, (give or take some 32's) and the other Jaguar bridge measured around 3/4, give or take...

The mustang one won't reach the bottom unless I literally extend the screws "all" the way out. I believe if I get the Jaguar styled bridge, it will fit with extending nicely, and I will not have to cut it..


Now, Im actually thinking I may cut it out to fit...

OR

If the Jaguar style bridge will work by extending, I may just resize the holes to the bridge.. The pickguard screw locations are not too far off, so It should not be a huge problem.

OR

Im going to find the one that fits, meaning I may just get a vintage one, or at least a vintage correct, but this may require tracing.


SO, In essence I now need;

A pickguard (vintage would run me $275-$375)
A tremolo assembley (vintage would run around $375)
A bridge (vintage would run me $200-275)
A neck (vintage would run me $1800-$2500)

You do the math.....

Alternativley, if I could find the parts witch are the same specs as these... Well, you do the math... It could be a difference of thousands...
Witch is money I don't have in hand, but have in guitars...

Anyone interested in some new gear?? lol
I got a steinberger guitar, not all original... Just the body pups are I believe....

But I digress....


Anyone have any leads on any of these parts, being vintage specified correct??

[sumgai]

ym,

It all depends on what you're goin' for.....

Are you wanting to own/operate a truly vintage-in-all-respects Jazzmaster? Are you wanting to play what looks and sounds just like a Jazzmaster? Or are you perhaps simply looking to have a snazzy copy that does something out of the ordinary? All are valid goals, but the first one will require not one, but two bank charge cards, as shown by your price for the neck alone - Yikes!

Me, I'd put it all together as original as possible, right down to the pups, with one exception. Those necks were known, then and now, as "speed necks" - their profile was extremely slim, from the volute to the heel - they measured noticibly less than the standard Fender necks of the time. You can do that yourself by snagging a Strat neck (get one made for a true MIA body, or else you're gonna be either hogging out wood or shimming, one of the two) and shaving down the backside yourself. Ask c1 for details on how to do that, but the main point being, you can save upwards of 2KiloBucks. Oh, and you'll have to re-do the decal, but that's nearly child's play, and almost free.

Good luck!




sumgai

[phatmarx78]

Thanks! I think I may be talking about the neck in another thread.
But bygones are bygones??

Im thinking about getting one made from USA custom guitars.


But Im actually starting to lean towards Warmoth. NOT THAT I CARE, but they do install the nut, witch saves me time so I really would not mind paying for it.

Also, Im still curious, but If I left the neck unfinished, what are the risks of warping/twisting??

Im really interested in leaving the neck unfinished for an ultra smooth feel, and maybe just apply the clear coat finish to the headstock and just slightly on the heel, and maybe just a small amount where the fretboard meets the neck wood.

Im really curious about this.. If it would be all right and maintain proper.

Im going to show you guys the specs for the neck I will have made, and you guys let me know what you think.

[cynical1]

But Im actually starting to lean towards Warmoth. NOT THAT I CARE, but they do install the nut, witch saves me time so I really would not mind paying for it.

Even if Warmoth installs the nut they're not going to cut it to your string gauge or proper slot depth. That's part of the setup in installing a new neck. So, depending on price, all they're doing for you is gluing it in.

Also, Im still curious, but If I left the neck unfinished, what are the risks of warping/twisting??

The standard take in the industry is that no one will warranty a neck that does not have a hard finish. Warmoth won't. Even though they offer necks with an oil finish...go figure... Read their warranty to verify.

Opinions vary, but if you want mine, taking the easy way out by not finishing the neck, or oiling it to save time is going to decrease the serviceable life of the neck. I've seen a lot of warped and twisted necks over the past 30 years. Some with finishes and some without. All of the finished necks displayed some sort of finish failure that the owner left unaddressed. Cheap guitar necks aside, but wood left to its own devices will react to moisture and humidity...or lack of humidity. It will move, split pr crack. I've even seen the glue bond to the fretboard let go where the glue seam is left unprotected.

The finish protects the wood. Moisture will attack an unfinished neck. Oils need to be constantly re-applied in order to protect the wood. Could you get lucky and never see the neck move? Sure. You really wanna toss the dice on a $350.00-$400.00 custom neck?

The neck is the most important part on any guitar or bass. Do you really want to leave it unprotected, or semi-protected? Ultimately it's your call. Do some research if you think I'm just blowing smoke on this.

Im really interested in leaving the neck unfinished for an ultra smooth feel, and maybe just apply the clear coat finish to the headstock and just slightly on the heel, and maybe just a small amount where the fretboard meets the neck wood.

Want the slickest finish as possible on your neck? Want it to last a long time? Here's the deal.

Semi-gloss or matte polyurethane, mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits and wiped on. About six coats does it. Let it gas out for about 2 weeks, wet sand with 400 grit, then 800 grit, some rubbing compound and some polishing compound. Slickest neck you'll ever play. I've been doing them that way since 1983 and have never had one come back. Take it for what it's worth, but a little effort on the front end makes the next couple of decades simple.

I did my bass this way in 1990 and it's never been touched up since. Still slick, still a nice semi-gloss appearance, plus it ambered up nicely.

Happy Trails -

Cynical One

[thetragichero]

Apr 12, 2012 17:26:29 GMT -5 cynical1 said:

Want the slickest finish as possible on your neck? Want it to last a long time? Here's the deal.

Semi-gloss or matte polyurethane, mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits and wiped on. About six coats does it. Let it gas out for about 2 weeks, wet sand with 400 grit, then 800 grit, some rubbing compound and some polishing compound. Slickest neck you'll ever play. I've been doing them that way since 1983 and have never had one come back. Take it for what it's worth, but a little effort on the front end makes the next couple of decades simple.

I did my bass this way in 1990 and it's never been touched up since. Still slick, still a nice semi-gloss appearance, plus it ambered up nicely.

Happy Trails -

Cynical One

you magnificent bastard!
this was even easier than the tung oil finishes I've been doing
got two necks hanging in the outdoor laundry room
thank you, thank you!

[thetragichero]

headed to Spokane for a week for a wedding so i figured it would be a good time to sand the tung oil finish off my #1 bass and give 'er a proper finish (I've already done about half of my six-stringerz)
did not realize that the varethane-brand can i purchased on clearance was water-based until i had a few coats on already (i suspected something was amiss with the lack of smell and milky appearance but i was focused on getting a task done so i could then eat)
should this still be okay?
I've read it cures faster