tone and volume pot values.

[jmartyg]

I'm having a huge brain fart.

Picture a standard wired HSS strat but with only one tone control. The leads on the 5 switch way that would normally go to each of their own tone control are bridged(is that the proper term?).

Anyway,
Do i've been googling 500 vs 250K pots, and it seems people know how they work, but no one really answered or asked the question of volume vs tone control values. Since I will only have the two single coils on the tone, would they be 250? Or does the 500 vs 250 thing only matter on the volume?

Usually i'd just drop 500's in both positions and be done with it, but I got to thinking.

Also, I didn't search this forum yet. If the answer is here, jsut say so and i'll do some home work when i'm home from work today.

I wouldn't be surprized if I read the answer already but it didn't sink in yet.

[newey]

Since I will only have the two single coils on the tone, would they be 250? Or does the 500 vs 250 thing only matter on the volume?

No, it all matters. Specifically, what matters is the total resistive load, which is based on having two pots (in this case) in parallel. So, if you used 2 250K pots, the overall resistance added will be 125K. 2 500K pots equate to 250K. One of each gives you 166.67K (rounding up).

Since HBs sound more bassy ("muddy" as some would say), 500K pots are usually used to add some brightness to HBs. With a bridge HB, folks generally want the brightness there for lead stuff. So, using both 500K pots will maximize that for the HB, and if it's too bright for one's tastes with the SC settings, one can just dial back on the tone control to compensate.

You can always dial out some brightness, but you can't add it in if it's not there to begin with.

EDIT: Just realized you may not be talking about a Master tone for all 3 pups, but a single tone pot for just the SCs- if so, then there's only the one volume pot with the bridge HB, which would be 500K if it's the only pot engaged in the bridge position.

[jmartyg]

Apr 16, 2012 14:42:19 GMT -5 newey said:

EDIT: Just realized you may not be talking about a Master tone for all 3 pups, but a single tone pot for just the SCs- if so, then there's only the one volume pot with the bridge HB, which would be 500K if it's the only pot engaged in the bridge position.

That's correct. The HB isn't on the tone, only the 2 single coils.

[newey]

I'd still go 500KΩ, it'll be right for the HB, and right for the SCs with the tone knob at about a "7".

Any choice you make is a compromise. As the old saw goes ; ". . .now we're just negotiating over the price."

[sbgodofmetal]

Theroretical question. Just throwing this one in. Let's say we have a dual hb guitar with a master volume and a tone to each hb' would the pot value to each hb matter? Let's say I have a 1meg volume and the neck tone a 250k while the bridge tone is a 500k. The neck cap is a .050uf and the bridge a .020uf. What should we expect. Sound wise?

[newey]

The cap value doesn't have any effect with the tone pot at "10", it only comes into play as you turn the tone control down. Differing cap values change the frequency response curve as you decrease the control.

The setting with a 500K tone pot and 1 Meg Volume pot has a total parallel resistance of 333K; for the neck with 250K and 1M, it's 200KΩ. We would then expect the neck to be a bit "darker" sounding than if both tone pots were 500K.

[sbgodofmetal]

Thanks newey. ;D. The darker neck was actually what I was going for. So with the parallel on the 1m/500k would make it less bright than if both were 500k correct?


This is for a heavy metal guitar I've got in the planning stages. Maybe this will also help clear up some questions for jmartyrg as well.

[sbgodofmetal]

I just realized that the differences in pot tapers will also affect your over all sound. Some pots will only change at the end of the travel path giving you a drastic change, while others give you the gradual change throughout its path. So the pots value isn't the only aspect to be concidered when making the final selection for the pots to be used. I'll bow to greater authorities on that subject at the moment due to my limited knowlege of pot taper types and ratio's though.

[reTrEaD]

Apr 16, 2012 12:49:55 GMT -5 jmartyg said:

The leads on the 5 switch way that would normally go to each of their own tone control are bridged(is that the proper term?).

Proper enough. I'd say the lugs are tied together, but "bridged" gets the point across.

Apr 16, 2012 12:49:55 GMT -5 jmartyg said:

Usually i'd just drop 500's in both positions and be done with it, but I got to thinking.

Thinking is good.

Let's look at a Fender HSS, then compare that to what you want to accomplish. Fender uses 250k pots for both volume and tone.

On the (Mexican) Standard Strat HSS, they wire first tone pot directly to the lug where the neck pickup is wired and the second tone pot to the lug where the middle pickup is wired. They use the wafer of the 5way that usually handles the tone control selection to split the bridge pickup to single coil mode in the bridge + middle position.

support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/013-4700_02C_SISD.pdf

This results in a 250k load on the pickup in the bridge only position. The other positions have a 125k load (when the tone is @ 10) except for the neck + middle position. Since the two tone pots are in parallel in that position the load is 83k.

On the higher line models, they use a superswitch and assign the first tone pot to the 4 positions closest to the neck and the second tone pot to the bridge only position. This results in a 125k load in all positions.

With the configuration you propose, using 250k pots would result in a 125k load for all positions except the bridge only position, which would be 250k. This seems quite reasonable, imho.

You could use a 500k pot for the volume control and a 250k for the tone. This would result in a slightly brighter output in all positions. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, if that gets you where you want to go. But the 500k pot for the volume control makes it more prone to treble loss when the volume is rolled down.

If you elect to use a 500k volume control and set your amp with the guitar volume rolled down a bit, increasing the volume on the guitar will also increase the brightness. If you see this as a desirable "feature", life is good. If not, you could mitigate the brightness change by using a treble bypass network on the volume control.

There are no inflexible "rules" to the selection of pot values. But understanding the results will help in getting you something that suits your individual desires.

[jmartyg]

+1 for you, reTrEaD.

Thanks guys

[reTrEaD]

Thanks, Marty.