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Post by 4real on Apr 18, 2012 5:16:46 GMT -5
Hi again...
Well, I can see in the near future I am going to have to find a way to amplify my acoustic guitar. It is an old epiphone and a bit old and beaten but I love the guitar.
So, I have a kind of mini HB/filtertron pickup here and have been working out a way to mount it to a wooden mount...not decided how I am going to mount the thing but I might drill two holes to be sure...not keen on that, but I don't want the thing falling off...glue is another alternative perhaps...will see...
On testing it does sound a little 'thick' so may consider wiring it in parallel. Otherwise, will see what it really sounds like mounted far from the strings, perhaps level with the top.
I already have a strap button socket, it has/had an old bacus berry piezo 'bug' in it but to be effective sound things need to be pre-amped to be really effective and combining things feels like a can of worms, so a passive solution sounds more practical.
Then it occurred to me...does the strings need to be grounded?
I realised when I was testing with the wires held to a cable jack that I was touching the ground by doing that. Not sure though how one might do this with the actual install on a normal acoustic. Is it necessary do you think, if so how would one do this effectively without too much trouble and obvious or difficult modification?
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Post by yakkmeister on Apr 18, 2012 5:46:10 GMT -5
What about those pickups that just slide in under the strings and clamp on? I have used several models over the years and they have all been reasonable ... Or some transducers all up in that axe ...  |
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Post by 4real on Apr 18, 2012 6:01:57 GMT -5
Well, I have too, in fact I am sure I have a full HB dimarzio about somewhere.
This is a good example as such 'clip on things' are typically plastic cased but really just a standard HB pickup in there (well the older ones were) and did not ground to anything...so...is this in fact 'necessary?
The bridge on these epiphones were a bit unusual in that they are screw height adjustable and metal, but the actual saddle is plastic, so grounding that will not 'do it' and it is not really suitable nor would I want to modify it that much for a a conventional piezo kind of thing as a result. I kind of like the idea of this and have a couple of pickup options, but this seemed like a good solution' of sorts.
If some kind of grounding is deemed necessary I was thinking that I could run a wire aft of the saddle perhaps that touched the strings or perhaps some kind of arrangement that grounded to the string ball ends some how where the pins hold the strings in...not sure how to do that quite though and the other does not seem as neat...
Given that these clip on things are not grounded though, is it really necessary do you guys think?
Oh and buying a new pup...well I have a shortage of money and a surplus of pickup options...what can I say.
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Post by lpf3 on Apr 18, 2012 8:05:37 GMT -5
I've toyed with the idea of taking a soundhole cover and routing an opening for a pickup. I think it would be a pretty clean installation as you'd really just be using it as a large humbucker mounting ring, of sorts. I don't know about the grounding issue, though. How do the store- bought models address it? I'm sure the cable must be shielded.......... Keep us posted. -lpf3 |
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Post by 4real on Apr 18, 2012 8:23:09 GMT -5
Well, the ones I've had are shielded and I am a fan of shielded cable anyway. In fact, this is an unusual end pin jak in that it connects inside with an RCA plug, so I will just cut up a suitable shielded cable and plug it in eventually.
Have not edited the photos yet, but basically it is a small HB that I mounted to a thin wood and used spacers so that it will reach the top at an appropriate hight. I am pretty much thinking I will drill holes rather that anything more 'fancy'.
In testing, I did get a bit of feedback but then, I was very close to the amp...instant sustainer.
I did consider the sound-hole cover. I am not sure that I could get one quite this size, seems small for some reason. This is certainly an idea, but for my purposes it will still mainly be used as an acoustic so want that soundhole open. If I removed the cover, how would the wires attach, I'd rather they were not trailing about or that I might have to take the strings off to remove things...though I guess one could organise a bit of a plug system to do that.
I saw a remarkable guitar player, Jon Gomm on the weekend that uses both a nic in teh guitar and a nice looking magnetic pickup and cover cut to suit. He was able though to take of the cover instantly and stroll into the audience and play acoustically for the final number. Certainly a player worth noting and seeing if there ever is a chance...otherwise, there is always YouTube.
I checked out and met with the 'director' of this thing and the initial response is fairly impressive...though a big unknown still. IF the groups are large, the rooms large and dead, etc...then there could be a real problem hearing the acoustic above the students so it would be nice to have that option there. Besides, I suspect that I will have to do a bit of a performance before each lesson and it is a lot easier to be 'impressive' if you have a moderate volume and a nice reverb for something like that...not 'loud' but clear. Amplification also allows one to play softer and such as well, so you don't come across like you are just 'banging out a tune' just to be heard.
Anyway, will keep you all posted as it is mostly 'finished' I think...I am sure though that there are all kinds of ways one could fit something to a guitar like this. For anything 'louder' my new guitar is very 'feedback resistant' but not loud enough acoustically...so this is a kind of in-between-er for this purpose and as far as I can tell, little change in sound or volume will really be evident so it is likely to become 'permanent'...
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 18, 2012 8:37:18 GMT -5
not decided how I am going to mount the thing but I might drill two holes to be sure...not keen on that, but I don't want the thing falling off...glue is another alternative perhaps...will see... Glue? Ick. No need to drill, imho. Just design the mount so you can clamp it in place.  Note the "ears" beneath the top flange, that clamp the unit to the edge of the soundhole. Then it occurred to me...does the strings need to be grounded? Strings does not need to be grounded, but since You're just a big ole' Bucket O' Noise there is a benefit to grounding the strings. The benefits are greater if the magnetic pickup is a single coil and/or the wiring is not shielded. But grounding helps even with a HB. If some kind of grounding is deemed necessary I was thinking that I could run a wire aft of the saddle perhaps that touched the strings or perhaps some kind of arrangement that grounded to the string ball ends some how where the pins hold the strings in...not sure how to do that quite though and the other does not seem as neat... Weaving an old piece of a guitar string through your strings behind the strings and connecting that to ground is dead easy. But it looks like s  t. Grounding the strings by the ball ends makes the most sense. Look at how your strings are currently terminated on the guitar. You have a hole (with a slot) where the ball end is inserted. A pin pushes the string over to the slot, and the ball end can't fit through the slot. Create a metal plate to replace (or overlay) the wooden one that's in there now. Connect the plate to ground. Done.  |
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 18, 2012 10:18:36 GMT -5
I agree with retread on the whole thing. Only one thing I would amend: it's not the strings that want to be grounded, but you! You could theoretically connect a wire to some convenient point on your body and then connect that to the amp chassis. Course then if there's some fault which causes current to flow through that wire it might be more difficult to disconnect than just letting go of the guitar. OTOH, if there's enough current to really hurt you, you probably won't be able to let go of the guitar either!
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 18, 2012 10:51:43 GMT -5
Only one thing I would amend: it's not the strings that want to be grounded, but you! That's a very tidy way of summing up the "bucket o' noise" concept. I'm sure John A would approve. +1 |
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Post by newey on Apr 18, 2012 18:14:14 GMT -5
I also have an acoustic for which I wanted a soundhole pickup. I found this DeArmond about 5 years ago on Ebay for about $20. FWIW, the strings aren't grounded and it's a single coil. It has its own "dedicated" cable which I assume is shielded. It isn't particularly noisy, not any worse than a regular SC on an unshielded guitar. Of course, I've only used it in the basement, so who knows what sort of noise (and feedback) one would get at volumes appropriate for a venue of some sort or other. I keep it angled a bit because I think it sounds better that way. You can see that it has three clips made from springy flat metal to hold it in place.  As far as string grounds are concerned, many of the old "Jazz boxes" made do without them, back in the day. PS- Looking at that photo, I really need to oil that fretboard! |
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Post by yakkmeister on Apr 18, 2012 22:55:36 GMT -5
I agree with retread on the whole thing. Only one thing I would amend: it's not the strings that want to be grounded, but you! You could theoretically connect a wire to some convenient point on your body and then connect that to the amp chassis. Course then if there's some fault which causes current to flow through that wire it might be more difficult to disconnect than just letting go of the guitar. OTOH, if there's enough current to really hurt you, you probably won't be able to let go of the guitar either! Shielded underpants? |
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Post by 4real on Apr 19, 2012 21:35:39 GMT -5
Ok...well, mission complete and sounds great... So, I had a few pups to choose from, but I ahd this odd gold mini Hb and the string spacing is pretty right and silent and always wanted to use something like this...it seemed to have advantages over the fender noiseless that I at first considered that would not really work with the string spread without quit a bit of an angle...  Below it I is the proposed wooden mounting plate...the wood is from tongue depressors you can get at the craft shop...  Here is the pup on the plate, I used double sided foam tape to ensure the mounting tangs are firm with teh extra layers that were to be added...  adding spacers and some black matt thin cardboard to make it dark where needed...this is the end result...  I saw I could, so it did, add mini toggles the lower one being a series parallel switch and the upper one a simple on/off. They are hard to get to as they are quite deep and perhaps a longer toggle or another arrangement would work better. Switching with a finger is tricky, but a pick easily switches things and nothing is sticking out or could accidentally be moved...they are practically invisible.  I stripped a wire about 2" and tinned with solder, then I used this shielding foil and stuck this to the wire and the tape to cover the internal bridge plate. I then used the bridge pins to push through the foil on the inside so contact with each sting will be effected...  I did use a little foam tape and two screws to hold this pup firmly in place and quite low, jut above the soundboard so perhaps 1/2" from the strings. The guitar already was fitted with a end-pin jack and old piezo bug. I removed the bug and conveniently the connection was by an RCA so cut up an old shield cable and just plugged that end internally. ... I am sure this 'quick and dirty' and semi permanent could be done better or avoid screws and such. The only real 'modification' are these screws and with all the wars this old guitar has been through, knocks and dings...well, this is fairly minor and makes things absolutely secure and discrete. It looks good, at any distance as if the thing just floats there and does not really have much of a detrimental effect on it's acoustic sound or function or look. This is of course, an electric guitar pickup and so plugged in it does not sound like one. However, that is not a 'bad' thing, it does sound incredibly good in a warm 'jazz box' kind of way and is dead silent and does not require power or pickup every little brush or knock while playing that is often the case with any piezo system. The toggles are not 'necessary' but I can foresee wanting to be able to turn the guitar off to put it down and not want to run to the amp to prevent feedback or go from doing a 'performance' kind of thing to a lesson with just an acoustic. The S/P thing makes it a little less 'hot' and a slightly lighter sound. If I wanted a bit more of an acoustic sound, I have a behringer AM100 simulator that could provide that kind of sound or a mix as required. I've also been playing this into my valve clean HRD so, I am sure a dryer sound could be got through another amp of PA. Thanks for the input and thoughts... pete |
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Post by yakkmeister on Apr 20, 2012 1:25:07 GMT -5
Looks cool, man!
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