Thanks sbGoM
The wire for pups can be a problem and you do need to watch for crossover, sure though, something like that can be done.
It is not as simple as you are making out though with the circuitry and wile one might wish to do that kind of half distortion kind of thing, it would not be something I would be interested in.
Let me try and explain and you have a big knowledge gap in the concept of 'impedances' and related ideas. While potentially 'any coil of wire around a magnet' can make a sound, just as any 'piezo' can do so too, that does not match the impedances of the amplifier or other things one might combine such devices to. The result is significant loading and other problems.
So, if you were to make a tiny one string pup, it's smallness at least means there will be very little output and a very low impedance. Youa re goign to then need buffer circuits or a preamp to bring them up to the appropriate level and interface with conventional instrument amps.
Similarly, with the basic LM386 circuits for which I know a lot from my sustainer things and made many variations, this is a small power amp circuit. The one you show has significant input impedance problems with most types of pickups, magnetic, worse with piezo that are extremely high. Again, you need a buffer or preamp stage before it. You will find that the LM386 is used like this for many little 'practice amp' type things.
Being a 'power amp' and draining a lot of power, it is not a suitable circuit for this kind of thing either...what you want is a preamp kind of circuit, not designed to drive a speaker like this, but to accept the incoming signal (very low in this proposal) and to make it so that it is suitable for the input of the instrument amp.
When you see thsees kinds of things in an ordinary audio thing, you can see a speaker out right,, it is because they intend to run an ipod or similar device into it which of course already has inside of it a fair bit of buffering and such. Or, they are not concerned too much about the loading and sound quality and certainly not some unknown passive input.
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Anyway, it could be done that way, there is a thread on some of the things I have attempted around. I've been tempted to do this kind of approach but in general, there are other considerations in such a project. Any DIY pups like this will be fairly large requiring guitar mods and possibly compromising things like the neck pickup which I'd want to avoid. There may well be noise issues as you are making effectively crude single coils. They will be relatively 'large' even if they fit between the strings so that they are likely to pickup some of the adjacent strings vibrations. For some applications, this may not be too bad or could be worked around.
To do that '3D' effect in that clip (listening with head phones is advisable) that uses a "BAX" modified roland GK synth pickup (effectively 6 tiny HB pups) with six output cables presumably into a 6 way recording interface to record on different tracks. That's a bit of expensive and elaborate gear, and a lot of cables.
The more basic 'stereo thing' is more practical and could get by with just two preamps and elaborate switching...as I say, there is a 'hex project' thread about just some of my recent efforts on this challenge.
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A couple of things though.
1. I don't want you to think that I am just 'knocking' ideas though some things need correcting or better explanation, for a lot of things like impedances there are members here that are immanently more suitable to explain those things than I. I learned a lot of these things from experience. By that, I mean much like you, but with perhaps slightly more humility. See, when I was young and still do often, I would think of an 'idea' that I wanted and cobble together cheap guitar parts and electronic things naively...though I always knew that there was a
reason why it is not done this way or easily. Hearing the effect of 'loading' from mismatched impedances like running a piezo without a buffer or hooking up an LM386 without that kind of thing teaches you a lot...there is a problem and a big gap in my knowledge gap.
Of course, having turned 50 now, the internet had not been thought of so there was no one to ask a question of and no imperative to tell others what a 'game-changing' invention I have created if successful! The culture and motivations are markedly different these days, or so it seems. I'm not being ageist I can assure you, I have regular contact with people by email on a heap of things that I have explored, primarily the sustainer things but also this hex stuff and other things from people all around the world and all ages.
which brings me to...
2. Which is perhaps a rant or an observation about motivations and various other attitude aspects and misleading info for which this forum tends to try and rise above I must say. But, to some extent this observation is true for us all I guess.
Who or why are people building these instruments. Is it for some internet virtual notoriety, are there $ in the eyes, is there a belief that they have special powers to see something simple and obvious that some how everyone misses, or that alone they can 'invent' or improve upon something that has some how escaped everyone else's and that they can do this without any prior knowledge or a lot of effort and failures along the way to get there.
Something that plagues me constantly is that even when I have made something that seems to be refined to simplicity and works and generously coach through replicating it, the years of effort and failures and breakthroughs to get there, as well as the whole concept...is invariably seen to be some kind of major cash cow LOL. (believe me, if it were, I'd be cashing in!).
The smallest change and it is now 'theirs' and promoted as such. YT is littered with this kind of thing, some I personally know did not successfully complete the project though are advertising on websites that look legit as if theirs and just around the corner when they could not complete one for personal use with hand holding and largely due to mods to make it 'theirs' which undermined it's functioning.
Anyway, the thing is that it is a wonder to me why in general, people are not looking at things like this from a personal and musical application and with the humility to dig deep into things and be a bit more skeptical and with humility.
An example is that I saw a nex 'passive piezo ridge' being marketed by hipshot and designed by Ned steinberger. Ok, well I am skeptical about this from what I know, but reputable company and name. So, I spent some time checking out all his patents and cross references with USPTO (free service btw) and nothing. Ok, so a wider search, eventually I found someone that had one and confirmed that indeed, as principles would suggest, this can not do what is being claimed. It was also TM called a 'differential piezo bridge' and so, thinking that perhaps Ned had found some new technology, I discover that all piexos are 'differential' and he had just co-opted and trademarked the name like deepak and the concept of 'quantum' redefining it and making it his 'own'.
Basically, you always need an open mind but also informed scepticism. All the info is there these days, but you need strong BS detectors for sure. Experience is also a great teacher and knowing that there are others that know a heap more than I is required and sought out.
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"1% inspiration, 99% perspiration"
This is the reality. It helps to get a few people to help with the perspiration part, hence GN2 or better yet, find those who have already done a large part of the perspiration...there is a wealth of history and individuals through education or experience that can help forward that 1%.
What I have observed typically seems to be a lack of the 1% even. Rather than a personal inspiration, it seems that the accent is on what others might 'think' of their creations than what they can personally desire. Desire is what makes such things worth while and motivate one through the many obstacles in creation...and to take a good idea and make it fundamentally better.
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So, looking at this threads initial impetus. The goals to me seem generic and ill defined, they seem derived as a host of replica generic and vintage designs and there is no mention of a musical goal, just a financial personal ambition for others...which I suppose is ok. Mixed with this a dose of, well to me and any outsider I would suggest' suspect patriotism.
Before anyone gets all hung up on this, what used to be and what is now are different things..and there are a lot of issues here. What I am alluding to hear is the idea that anything made in the USA will be intrinsically be better...it's entirely symbolic...but also potentially manipulative too. such a 'meme' can result in even more BS that preys on peoples sentimentality and allegiances while in reality is not offering anything new, informed or 'better' and is also, from someone half a world away, incredulous. Citing GFS who are just rebranding and hyping Artec Korean made products that one can by at a 3rd of the price is...well...there are lots of issues there.
Does all this matter, you conscious be your guide.
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To mark the difference can be illustrated in this thread and the hex thing. There are an over-abundance of mojo and people making pickups. Few are doing new things though there are some, mostly makers are following the ancient formats (lace alumitones are an exception perhaps) and offering nothing much in terms of increased functionality, just variations on a theme basically supported by hype and mis-information. Some variations and products might well be subtly 'superior' but a lot of this is really subjective, even the cheapest pickup makes a noise...wire around a magnet and literally shoved into a lipstick tube was not initially proposed as a 'tone monster' but an effective way to make something make a noise. With a noise, one can make music. The mojo is all post-hoc.
You simply cant DIY pickups or most things 'cheaper' (enough to make a profit) or better. Make no mistake, Artec make most pickups in the world, precision machinery and they know what they are doing and consult and test their products widely. GFS just add a premium and suggest some 'names' and imply that they are their own or 'american' in some way and so can be more trusted.
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To me, the big benefit of the DIY thing is to go back to the really innovators and learn from them. Check out Seth lovers history and how he made the original PAF
home.provide.net/~cfh/seth.html and of course leo fenders history and motivations and the many failure and the wide consultation...those sexy strat curves were suggested as much by others than leo who was not a player himself.
Now, extrapolate that into the present, al that has been done. What do 'you want' and what is the easiest way to get the best results. Well, in pickups that are generic, there is any number of superior and cheaper ways than DIY so what is the point particularly. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to make something or replicate it, but really it's already declared as a commercial proposition without the necessary skill or knowledge or experience or commercial vetting. Not unusual, surround it in mojo and hype and stamp USA on it and she'll be right...and this honestly is the case. Most people use asina derived bobbins and wire and magnets and...so, assembled in teh USA at a pinch. Further, most have never heard an original and a good one (they varied a lot) to even have an assessment of what is 'good' and how theirs compares.
Where DIY is the means to an end though, the real strength and the motivations behind those that innovated these things in the first place, is that of making something that one can't by...something that functions in ways that are useful and desirable and do something that can't be done by what has already on offer.
So, yeah, one can make pickups, but there is not a practical way as yet to do teh 'hex' thing which could offer many, many more possibilities. It is also the 'cutting edge' to a large degree and the way things are moving...the examples given, ghost, midi systems, variax, moog.
There is , if the technology can be hand a followed on from that through player proof, a whole host of potential there for
some players. Guitar players being conservative though, will stick to the tried and true. It is an interesting phenomenon, far less even in the bass community...so any progress is going to be up hill and specialised.
Personally though, what is lacking is the things that the original innovators had to want to create things with particular qualities and potential and often of use to a particular musical style or function.
So, for instance, I've seen and admired a lot of players in the solo guitar style and trying to do much the same myself. I've studied them, I even 'know them' by email and become friends with a few. For myself I thought laterally and wondered what instrument do I need to explore things. So, I wanted a guitar that could instantly change tunings as I know that retuning a guitar for every song means that I am not going to do that, I have not before. However, if you see that thread and something kicking around for a while, I eventually made that happen (largely in buying the only device that can do it properly ans my DIY attempts would not match it and cost more to develop! (know your limitations)). There are many such things with that project (and others here) that will teach you a lot even if they are not in line with 'your' desires....you can learn from the attitude and fortitude of people making it happen and learn from the results and get your own ideas too.
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So, sure, hex is an interesting thing...a lot harder than you think I can assure you and will take quite a bit of effort. There is a bit of info about, obviously in various guises such things 'exist'. The format and performance for the application I want, plus the cost, is sub par.
My advice to you and anyone is not to be too ambitious, certainly not declare things to be that are not (humility- rather pose it as a question and discuss and learn). A grand vison is a good thing, but really, know your limits and be realistic about this stuff.
For instance, on another thread, things like the concrete guitar or the lego guitar or in fact my present project the plastic guitar, are to a large extent oddities and on another level there is some philosophical underpinnings (especially in my work). It does not 'prove' things in the way you seem to think. "tone woods' is a term that does have a 'mojo' aspect...tone is a now meaningless word and the hallmark of mojo and you should immediately have BS alarms go off when you read it. All 'wood, lego, concrete, etc has a 'tone' as will a wire and a magnet. This is not the point at all. Woods have a tradition and the results do generally have some validity, a lot of the material use is to do with a design that complements it. But, the tradition of tone woods is largely a result of the very high tolerances required for a musical instrument and what material will best get you there and be stable and practical and fit within a budget. Pine for instance, is not one of those stable woods, leo tried it and can work if you can get appropriately stable material...but hey tend not to since the failed prototype. Like his idea that the first fenders don't need a truss rod!
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Anyway...too early to edit (5am) and these are interesting ideas to explore and learn about, to question and to understand and all that. It is just the way that it is done that is a problem by enlarge. My first instinct when I see something that is contrary to the way others, particularly in the commercial field, or where I have had some experience with trying similar things is...that there will be a reason that it is not done like that, or not any more. Now, it is an interesting and instructive thing to ask, why is that from people that might be able to explain further. It could well be a valid thing to then ask, hmm, how might one design around such problems.
Even more exciting is when someone comes up with ideas that lean towards things that are fundamentally new and effective. Every possible way of combining coils has largely been explored, it will not stop me or others continuing with those variations. But, there are not I suspect any significantly 'amazing' things around the corner...perhaps a new switch might appear but the resulting sound will be subtle and subjectively useful I would forward.
But, a deceive that can effectively sustain a string for ever and generate harmonics...that captured my attention for a decade...the hex things, similar potential combined with the emerging and affordable technology. What captures your ideas, what is it that you want to do or create. A guitar that uses alternative materials, an interest of mine, so delve deep into what has been tried before, the practicalities of making your own successfully to test such ideas, to openly debate the reasons for wanting to use such materials, demonstrate how ideas that design around the 'flaws' and of course, a clear set of goals or principles that you want to 'prove' (or not) in the difficult and often expensive and certainly frustrating voyage of exploration that will ensue should you embark on that journey.
It is not always clear in my writings I know, but I do have some humility about these things. In considering say a carved solid guitar, I know there are countless examples and many are amazing. So, take all that in. I also no that my artistic skills are limited, I don't have the 'tools' to do it well and that all this is at best 'cosmetic' and may even compromise the instrument in the process. I'd therefore (and have done) get a $50 guitar from a pawn shop and do all I can to make it play as good as it can. Then, start hacking it. Last time I did it, I ahve almost completely hollowed out my old testing experimenting guitar. I played with iring, I stuck piezos in the neck pocket, it took the first DIY sustainer, I learned how to stagger tuners with plumbing washer and set up tremolos that would stay in tune, had the pleasure of sanding off finish and applying my ow. And, I got to compare all these ideas with real instruments in terms of playability and sound. Eventually, though I still have it, I wore it out from playing and modding!
This is the way of doing it IMO...an having some inspiration of your own with a clear goal and approached with the assumption that there is a heap to learn, that there may be others or info that can help and deserve respect, that there will be mistakes and you will find the limits of your abilities and resources. But, you certainly will learn a lot and refine your ideas and after perhaps a decade or so, you might realize that inspiration and that is no small feat.
pete