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Post by morbe on Jul 5, 2012 9:38:17 GMT -5
Hey guys, just checking. So here is the story. My buddy I jam with has a fender chorus 100 watt 212 amp. It's solid state and it sounds amazing! Now I'm a tube amp man my self as you all may now know. But wow decent sounding solid state amps DO exist. Well I was going through the local CL stores here and noticed a Marshall mg250dfx. It's priced nicely and I've read and watched the reviews. And its got possitive reviews through several sources. Sorry to admit I don't know a lot about Marshall Amps. I've normally go after Fender amps, another fact you should all know. Is there a better Marshall solid state amp? Also for not much more there is a marshall haze 40, its a well reviewed tube amp but there is also a lot of forums dedicated to its issues. What does the this great forum and all of its experienced users have to say?
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Post by andy on Jul 5, 2012 11:32:49 GMT -5
Although the guitar world remains divided amongst the tube worshippers and the heretic solid state accepters, it is kind of grudgingly admitted that if anyone makes a good solid state amp, it's Fender.
I too am a 'Fender guy' (often a solid state one, too), and the cheaper Marshall solid staters (and valvestate for that matter) have never quite sounded right to me. Not that no-one else can make a great SS amp, but Fender does have a reputation for it.
Two points though- while they may or may not be any good for great classic Marshall valve tones, they do have a voice, and it might fit what you are after perfectly well. Nasty punk or squeaky metal distortion could be ideal...
Also, it is my opinion that the speaker has a huge influence over the EQ and distortion characteristics of an amp. It might be that an MG amp with something other than the budget OEM speaker could be a very pleasant surprise.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 5, 2012 12:56:07 GMT -5
Were you looking for new, or is used acceptable?
HTC1
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Post by Yew on Jul 5, 2012 13:15:32 GMT -5
The valvestates sound alright. I fint that the MG's I have played all overdrive too quickly, apart from the MG10 which I think can sound very good with a decent guitar infront of it  |
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Post by morbe on Jul 5, 2012 13:51:56 GMT -5
I was looking for used. Mainly the 2nd hand music stores and craigslist. I already have quite a few fender amps and can capture that blues tone, I also have a delta blues so ithink I have that genre covered. Right now I'm looking for that mid 80s hard rock (think guns and roses appetite for destruction) to 90s alternative. Used seems to be in my current price range, though I did get to try out a Marshall jcm2000 tube combo that sounded nice. I thought about trading in my super reverb for it but t I know the owner , he will probably only give me 300 in a trade in plus that jcm2000 was listed at 600$.
But I digress, I think I should start small and not break the bank since a used tube amp usually cost a little extra on the back end with new tubes, etc.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 5, 2012 15:28:53 GMT -5
I always thought a decent SS amp looked like this:  It does stellar cleans but I doubt it will do the dirty the way you want. |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 5, 2012 15:33:09 GMT -5
I play through a Marshall DSL401 combo - 40W valve powered. These sound great, given some work, particularly to change the speaker, and some have heat issues. Its been very reliable for me since 2006 however. THey can be quite reasonablly priced used.
But for solid state, the current MG line (eg MG100FX) are very different and better than the ones that finished about 3 years ago (eg MG100DFX) Its the letter 'd' in the name that identifies the previous range, which I think sound very buzzy.
A better option for a used amp would be something in the Valvestate or AVT range, SS output stage with a valve in the preamp. These can sound very good.
J
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Post by yakkmeister on Jul 5, 2012 20:35:52 GMT -5
I have been using a Roland 408 + the 4x8 extension cab for years now. Amazing sound, sweet cleans and rich overdrive.
Emulated valve circuit.
[edit]
I also love my Trace Elliot SuperTramp Stereo Chorus Deluxe.
If you can get one around 94-98, they're the pick of the bunch.
Prone to dry joints.
[/edit]
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Post by 4real on Jul 5, 2012 21:18:43 GMT -5
I still have the old Roland GA-60 I used pretty much from the start...much like a Jazz chorus without the chorus and always been reliable.
There are good SS amps, but then it depends what youa re after really. Sounds like a 'brand thing' as much as anything, a 'marshall' has that badge and bragging rights.
It depends on what you want too, a decent stomp box for distortions are generally a better bet. They are not as fragile and don't need the maintenance and can be incredibly loud!
Many many advantages to SS though, can't speak to the marshall's personally though, had heard bad things about the fuzziness, but then, that was years back so who knows. Most think of SS as being associated with some cheap 'practice amp' things that does not do such things justice I think.
More speakers or better speakers can make a difference too. I have the option of a closed 15" speaker cab to fill out the sound for instance.
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Post by morbe on Jul 9, 2012 22:02:32 GMT -5
I was reading up on that Marshall 250dfx, I'm a bit confused.  It says its a 2x50 watt amp. Does that mean it equals to having one combined 100 watt amp or is it equivalent to having two 50 watts amps side by side? I had a 100 watt fender back in the day and it said 100 watt, 50 watts per channel. But this Marshall seems its a 50 watt amp x2? Yeah um confused too. |
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Post by newey on Jul 9, 2012 22:34:25 GMT -5
I dunno specifically, never played through one. But the reviews on the web call it a stereo amp, two 50 watts sides with a 12" speaker for each.
The stereo configuration means that the onboard chorus effect is a true stereo chorus (again, I'm assuming here, but it makes sense). That's one reason for two channels.
It may be that the two channels can be internally bridged, in which case you'd have 100 watts into two 12" speakers. Otherwise, I'm guessing it's 50 watts, unless you use a stereo splitter and play through both channels at once.
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Post by morbe on Jul 11, 2012 9:55:10 GMT -5
What do I do if I like the best of both worlds? Im really digging the Marshall amps I'm testing out. Okay so herebis the deal. I love the fender clean channel with a slight break up, and I really dig the Marshall gain channels, it there an amp that does them both? Or perhaps some one suggested pedals? Is there a way to get two in one?
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 11, 2012 10:55:10 GMT -5
Some of the Fender modeling amps do a respectable job. I don't know how big an amp you're looking for, but I picked up a Fender Super Champ XD amp and it does everything from the Fender to Marshall tones quite respectably. It's only 15 watts, so that may be limiting factor for you.
It's a weird tube\digital hybrid, but I like it.
And the Rolands are nice solid state amps. Some of the used stuff from the 70's and 80's, if they're still functional, can give you some interesting tones. I used Peavey 400s for years playing bass. They did everything I asked them to do, were low maintenance and took a serious licking and kept on ticking. Tone is a noble pursuit, but if you want to get paid for the gig there better be sound coming out somewhere...
The best advise I can offer is to haunt as many music stores and pawn shops as you can and try everything. An amp I love may give you the feeling of nails on a blackboard.
HTC1
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Post by sumgai on Jul 11, 2012 10:56:31 GMT -5
.... is there an amp that does them both? Yeah, it's called a Roland VG-8, or a VG-88, or best of all, a VG-99*. Use a keyboard amp or a quality PA system for the best results. Trust me, your mileage won't vary! HTH sumgai * The GR-55 also has a single modeling channel, but with all the tonality of the above units. |
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Post by 4real on Jul 11, 2012 15:18:29 GMT -5
www.zzounds.com/item--ROLVG99I saw a demo one with the fender V-strat and it was impressive but even more expensive (almost $4k!) than it is now... At only $1,500US, plus the synth guitar and the floor pedal and the...oh, and the amplifier or PA to hear it through, the synths are fascinating but uber expensive for the average person! There are some great modelling effects and amps but be sure you can get into and going to have the patience to tweak things to your guitar and take out the layers of compression and NR and other aspects that tend to be overblown in the presets. The script here seems to be budget and a bit of the 'brand label' on the front of it. Fenders have a reputation for clean, and clean amps tend to take well to effects. Digital effects tend to work well for most things, especially time based stuff these days, but they all tend to fail on the distortions that you are after. Decent analogue effects though might get you closer to the kind of sounds you are after with your present amps or some of the modelling amps. There are decent modeling solutions that are impressive and can do a lot more than a whole new amp! But, if the marshall signature matters even more...well then, some variation on that is likely the only candidate.
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Post by morbe on Jul 11, 2012 18:00:01 GMT -5
I understand everything your saying guys are saying. Thanks, doesn't marshall have a distortion pedals
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Post by morbe on Jul 13, 2012 11:00:26 GMT -5
I should probably start a New thread for this, but okay after much deliberation on my part. I have tried both Marshall SS amps and Marshall tube amps. Im really serious about saving some odds and ends and buying a Marshall amp. I think its safe to say we can throw the solid state amps right out a 10 story window, open fire with machine guns as it falls, light it up with a flame thrower, place a grenade on the tattered remains, sweep the dust into a cement crate, drop it into the deepest part of the ocean and send a submarine to torpedo that sum beetch.
Now that's out of the way, the valve state amps are pretty decent, but tube style amps sounded best. So I know that doesn't narrow things down much, but what I really would prefer some thing in the 50 watt range. Half stack is okay but I really would prefer a como, clean channel i will take what I get, what I'm after is the notorious Marshall crunch from the gain channel, not full dethmetal gain but the famous well known 80s lead gain or that 90s alternative gain. I have been reading some info on the web that claim these amps have massive heat issues, especially the combos. Any one know a decent Marshall amp that's not well known for being in the shop more than stage?
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Post by JohnH on Jul 14, 2012 17:47:50 GMT -5
I also like to keep track of Marshalls. Combos suit me, but theres nothing to match a Marshall all-valve head through a 4x12.
I reckon that sound you are after comes from the amps of the 80's, such as the JCM800 range, using EL34 output valves. Im not sure of specific models, but there were 50w combos in the range. These are quite sought after and youll pay a fair bit to get one. Also, they need to be very loud to get that sound, but when they do it will be what you seek. But, it will be 25-30 year old amp and apart from valves, may need serious work such as electrolytic caps replaced etc
The think the best modern ones to look at are the Vintage Modern and the JVM series. The VM is a single channel amp, but with very versatile gain controls and sounds great. It comes as heads or a 50W 2x12 combo. I played one gig through a combo and it’s the one I would buy if I was changing. The sound is a bit different though, more of a 60’s/70’s Marshall sound with KT88 valves
JVMs are the flagship line, starting with a 50W 2 channel 1x12 and several variations of combo up to 4 channel 2x12 100W, plus heads. Super versatile, basically will do a good job at all Marshall sounds, and has a similar output stage to the old JCM800’s. It’s a modern amp, but is very well designed and captures the classic and modern sounds.
Or, if you want a project, the DSL401, which I have makes a really good amp with a bit of work (tubes if needed, new speaker and extension cab). Its discontinued since about 2009. It uses EL84 output valves and has an extremely nice clean channel, which you can drive up to a medium crunch. It also has two gain channels, and will go up to very high gain. Out of the box, the gain channels can sound a bit thin, and the stock speaker is harsh though. I bit of EQ in the loop and new speaker fixes it. If you see one, try it out and check the sound before buying. Get one after 2003 for a fix to a heat issue, but I added fans to my 2005 model since they still get hot. Its good enough that I can’t justify changing it. Just today, I had it cranked up while the family were out, using the internal speaker (V30) plus a 1x12 extension cab. It sounded glorious!
One feature of the VM, JVM and DSL401 is that they all sound good at low volume (although even better at high volume), whereas the older amps like JCM800 need to be cranked to get that sound.
Just for completeness – other used Marshall combo amps that you might see are JCM900 (too many solid state parts in the preamp IMO– not quite the sound unless you drive it really hard), TSL601, 602 or112. A good TSL would be a beast, its similar age to the DSL401, but not so good for lower volume but worth a test if you find one and probably a heavier sound.
John
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Post by morbe on Jul 17, 2012 14:35:40 GMT -5
thanks for the awesome knowledge guys. thanks john, I think I'm going to go another route to get the tone I'm looking for. I believe I will be purchasing the wampler plextortion pedal. I already own a fender super reverb, peavey delta blues, and a fender champ 25. I really don't need another amp sitting collecting dust because its not what I'm in the mood for that year. believe it or not the peavey DB is my main amp, champ 25 is a backup, and the super reverb I is just too damn cumbersome to lug around. don't get me wrong I love its tone and I do record with it. I guess its just one of those things. but I digress. the wampler as you all know is basically a Marshall jcm8000 in a pedal and reviews claimed they nailed it. Plus they hold retail value extremely well so if I don't like it recoup most of my money. Can't wait! Sux that I make the money, my wife spends it and get what's left over, lol j/j I love my wife.
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ferox
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by ferox on Sept 21, 2012 21:26:53 GMT -5
Just to add... I got a Marshall 4203 Artist combo. Its a JCM 800 cousin, with a solid state pre amp and a tube phase inverter, and two EL34 power tubes. That makes it a hybrid, with the MOSFET circuitry and the Marshall power section. It was cool til i hacked the PCB. Now its a o30w power amp/ dust collector. Comes as a head unit.(3203).
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Post by long813 on Sept 21, 2012 23:29:30 GMT -5
Just to chime in.
A few years back my buddy bought a used Marshal MOSFET head for under 200$. When he told me I wasn't so sure about the purchase. Marshall ... SS? (I had the old MG series JohnH mentions).
This thing was wild though! A very nice SS amp from Marshal and honestly, I enjoyed it over some of the tubes I've used. I can't recall when they stopped making them, but it was a while back.
To make a short story long, Marshal used to make some amazing SS amps at great prices!
Also, not every tube amp will be better than a SS. Just my penny.
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