LR Baggs X-Bridge vs Fishman TSV

[mp70]

Hey Guys, I am looking to put a peizo bridge in my next build. I was wondering if anyone has any preferences between the LR Baggs X- Bridge and Fishman TSV bridges?

The Baggs doesn't have a steel block, but I hear the peizo sounds better. I am worried about the zinc block in the Baggs for normal non-peizo operation for sustain etc..

So any ideas would be great.. I have also looked into maybe doing RMC or PUTW stuff.. but I have not seen alot about those...

ANy help would be appreciated..

Thansk!

Mark

[sumgai]

Mark,

As a long time user (in a previous life) of piezo bridges, I've got some experience, both personal and anecdotal (meaning, what I've heard from friends and others).

But first, I/we need to know - are you speaking to building an acoustic or an electric axe? By describing a "zinc block", I'd assume an electric, but I could be way off-base, so it's best to get that factoid out in the open, before we go any further.

Awaiting your answer........




sumgai

[mp70]

Hi Sugmai, I am building an electric Partscaster.. I have a Fishman in my P-38 and its good.. but I am wondering:

1) If anyone has either the LR Baggs or Fishman Strat trems and how they perform on the electric side. I know the Fishman has a steel tremolo block and the Baggs has hardended Steel block. I know most people like the steel blocks for sustain, so that is probably my main concern.

2) I have not heard an LR Baggs peizo bridge and wondered if they are better or worse than an fishman system.

The guitar will have a fishman preamp (powerchip).. but as far as the bridges go I am open to anything..

I saw the Pick Up The World has a strat peizo that can be put under the saddles, but it's very hard to get any info (even when you email them) about how it sounds. I could then use any bridge I want.. i just don't know how well it works as there is virtually nothing online or through the manufacturer about how it sounds or what it looks like installed...

Any info would be appreciated..

Mark

[sumgai]

Mark,

That's a tall order!


My views:

Fishman has been around since JC was a PFC, their experience is pretty far reaching. Baggs, OTOH, has suffered a roller coaster ride in their time. I've personally never liked their products, but I'm only one dude, and obviously others like them well enough to spend money on 'em, because their doors are still open.

But consider - when guitar makers want to install piezo systems in their offerings, many of them turn to RMC for a complete package. I can say that I've personally worked with Richard Mclish (big kahuna of RMC) and I can appreciate the time and effort he and his company put into their products - I think they're top-notch.... but I've never used them.

Instead, I opted for the lesser-accepted, but IMO better product, the Ghost system from Graphtech. Whether for acoustic guitar simulation only, or for driving a pitch-to-MIDI system, I feel their product fills the bill. And at a decent price, too.

But when push comes to shove, I say - go with what you know. If you're willing (and rich enough) to experiment for months on end, then sure, go ahead and try other systems. But if you'd rather just get it done, then I see no reason to stretch beyond what you already know, the Fishman setup.

BTW, that PUTW stuff..... that's a retro-fit for any bridge, as you surmise. The problem there is the strings are not contacting the element directly, so the results are going to vary wildly. I liken this to a band-aid fix - cheap and quick, but once the novelty wears off, you'll be peeling it right back out of there.

BBTW, if I were me (and sadly I am), I'd be goose-stepping over to Callaham's site, and snagging a very high quality steel block, like so:

<- image is a direct link



Might not've been much help, but that's what I know, you're welcome to use it or s-can it.





sumgai

[cynical1]

Again, sg distills the solution down to what works. I have to offer a strong second to his recommendation on the Graphtech Ghost system.

The piezo element is integral to the saddle, and they offer retrofit saddles into just about everything from Fender to Gibson style saddles for both guitar and bass.

Tone is a subjective term...much like cigars... What one person loves another may detest. If possible you really want to get your hands on different configurations and test them for yourself. On a limited budget this can be a challenge, but the time spent on gas or a subway ticket to find these options will be money well spent. Internet reviews, while time saving and helpful, are not a perfect substitute. Seeing the Mona Lisa is much more effective than reading a 1000 words about it.

The other advantage to the Ghost system is the expandability of the system. Down the road you can easily add MIDI hex capability and their Acoustic Simulator board is the most convincing acoustic simulator I've ever heard.

Before I become even more long winded, let me just add this...again... Buy it right and buy it once. Going for a "cost effective" solution generally leads to buying it twice causing you to lay out more money in the end than if you'd have gone full boat originally.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[mp70]

Hey Guys, I appreciate the help. I did look at the ghost system.. it was on my list.. I do have the Fishman preamp already and I don't think you can use the ghost saddles without their acoustic preamp. I could sell the Fishman and start over as I haven't wired it into anything yet.

I also know hipshot makes a nice bridge with the ghost built in which is nice.. It also has a steel block..

store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=332

I am just looking for decent Ovation like sounds live.. and I doubt I will ever need any MIDI stuff at all..

So I guess my choices are to scrap the Fishman and start over.. or get a Fishman TSV which at least has a Steel block...

The LR Baggs stuff worries me as this guitar is not going to just do acoustic stuff, but is going to be a nice swiss army knife for alot of my sounds.. mostly electric, so I was worried about the LR Baggs tremolo and it's sustain with Zinc stuff...

I want to do it right to begin with and not second guess myself..

Any other ideas??

Mark

[sumgai]

Mark,

Nope, no other ideas from my end of the stick.

But I do wanna say that I had a Hipshot bridge on my first Strat, a '97 Standard, and as you note, it was drilled and ready for the Ghost setup. That made a noticible difference in the sustain, lemme tell ya!

One more thing, but not an idea so much as a thought, generic in nature: While you may not be MIDI-minded, remember that the 'Net is chock-full of misappropriations of names. In this instance, a hex pickup is not a MIDI pup in its own right, but a hex pup is necessary in order to drive a MIDI converter (technically a pitch-to-voltage converter), and thus one or more synthesizers. However....

A hex pup is actually just what you might/should think it is - a divided pickup that actually contained six separate pickup elements, with all the feed wires going through one covering, so it looks like one cord. But the beauty here is, that hex system can also drive a modeler, and that's where you come in.

In my system, which contains three synths and two modelers, I can do the Swiss Army one-man band thing, and all of it is controlled from a single Behringer FCB-1010. The modelers take the place of any and all pedals that you might place at your feet. With just one of them, you can go from the acoustic guitar of Boston's Foreplay/Long Time, to Zakk Wilde's most-whacked out dreams of distortion, to Rory Gallagher's honky tone (from the Calling Card era), all with just one stomp.

And those are examples of just the modeler, I've not yet started with synth pads (for violins behind slow stuff) or horns behind Funk/Soul, or the organ of HOTRS, or my personal favorite, bagpipes for Amazing Grace. And yes, I freely admit that that's all just money, no need to go there until you've got extra moola left over after buying everything else first. ;D

Modeler boxes come in many flavors, some requiring a hex pup, some not. Investigate more closely, you might start thinking along different lines.....

HTH




sumgai

[mp70]

Cool, sounds like you have a great setup there... sounds very flexible for what you are doing... I actually have that same footswitch! ;-)

I mainly use stompboxes nowadays... who knows though. I may go back to the rack! ;D

I guess I need to figure out if I just keep the fishman or go for the ghost...

Mark

[sumgai]

Mark,

For me, it's a matter of ROI. I don't know what the Fishman setup costs as brand new, or to be closer to the point, what you paid for it, but I can give you my guidelines.....

If I want something that costs more than what I've can get for my current gear, I don't worry about how much I "might lose" when selling that gear. Instead, I look at it as if I had been renting the item, and getting the benefit of its use during that rental period. Of course, this is a case where "rental does not apply towards purchase", sorry to say, but I did get to enjoy the item, and probably learned something (lots of somethings?) along the way. That's worth a fair amount, in my book.

Then again, your book might've been written by a different author, so we can only hope that nothing got lost in the translation.

HTH





sumgai

[mp70]

Thanks for the input.. Other ideas are always welcome. I may stick with the Fishman.. It does sound good on my Parker.. plus it's only 2 parts and I can always swap it out..

I still haven't gotten all my parts so I could change my mind and sell the preamp.. ;-)

Mark

[mp70]

Ok, I bit the bullet... I got a Hipshot Us Contour Tremolo w/steel block and integrated Ghost saddles. I was calculating all my parts with Excel and the hipshot with Ghost saddles and Acousti-Phonic preamp ended up being cheaper than the Fishman TSV and PowerChip..

I was looking at just getting each part (base plate, claw, springs, callaham bloc and separate ghost saddles) But I wanted it to be a bit cleaner looking and I figured the integrated saddles would help that. Plus the Hipshot Bridge seems to be getting some good reviews...

So now I have a Powerchip on eBay for sale at a good price if anyone is interested (never used.. LOL):

www.ebay.com/itm/180963733313?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

The Hipshot US Contour looks good and I got a great deal here:

www.tkinstruments.com

Todd over there did me a solid....

I also grabbed some Hipshot Locking Tuners w/staggered posts at a good price on eBay... I am actually happy to support the US Companies...

Mark

[sumgai]

Mark,

Good score! ;D

Take notes and pictures along the way, and make before/after sound recordings, if it's still feasible. If not, then "after" will still be cool with us.





sumgai

[mp70]

Yeah, I will.. but there is no before since it's never been assembled...

I will put some stuff up once it's all built..

I am happy with the decision... At least so far! LOL

Mark