tog
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Post by tog on Sept 7, 2012 18:18:40 GMT -5
I'm rewiring a strat I made (there's a post from a few years ago on here for it) but have decided to change a few things. As I have lost my original diagrams I'd like to refresh my memory a bit.
What I will have
3 x GFS lil killer (strat sized) humbuckers 1 x Volume control 1 x Standard 5way 1 x Neck on switch 3 x Tone control
I've decided to keep the pickups all as full humbuckers and not to tap them. I also want to wire the volume up as standard (no treble bleed as before).
Now I know strats usually have a capacitor for the tone across the ground, On the standard setup two pots share a single ground and cap.
On to my questions
I have four leads from the pickups, I presume I connect the north coil end to the sound coil end and use the two connections left?
Is there a need to wire the middle pickup out of phase to the other two if they're all humbuckers?
Can three tone pots share a single ground/capactor or is it best to have one each? Does this affect the value?
Thanks in advance
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 7, 2012 19:20:46 GMT -5
This is a quick idea of what I have in mind.
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 7, 2012 21:15:55 GMT -5
On to my questions
I have four leads from the pickups, I presume I connect the north coil end to the sound coil end and use the two connections left? Pretty sure GFS uses the same color codes as Seymour Duncan. If so your series link will be Red and White. Solder those together and tape them up. That leaves you with Black and Green for hot and common. Is there a need to wire the middle pickup out of phase to the other two if they're all humbuckers? Because you have two coils on each pickup, the hum is cancelled whether one pickup is used alone or you select a pair of pickups. Wire all three pickups the same way. If you use Black for the connection to the pickup selector on one, do the same on the other two. Can three tone pots share a single ground/capactor or is it best to have one each? Does this affect the value? Since you're using the other half of the selector for the tone circuit, It's fine to share the same cap. In positions 2 and 4 your tone will be affected by a pair of controls, not just one. This will be true whether you have separate tone caps or one shared cap. The only difference will be when two pots that are being used are both dialed back for cutting the treble. You'll have twice as much capacitance if you use separate caps. The tone will be a little darker than if you shared one cap.
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 8, 2012 8:51:18 GMT -5
So if I have you correctly then my diagram should be as follows?
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Post by long813 on Sept 8, 2012 11:34:39 GMT -5
In p2 and p4,
The tone pots are in parallel, as well as the capacitor. Using 250k pots, you're effectively reducing it to 125k A .047uF cap, reduces to 0.0235uF (at each pot)
The reduced capacitance will make the tone brighter, but you'll also be only working with half of the tone range (relative to other positions).
You maybe required to do some tone tweaking when you switch to those positions.
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 8, 2012 13:21:57 GMT -5
While that's true, Surely that'd the case for all strats at position 4 anyway?
That's definitely not right. There's only one cap in my second drawing and I'm fairly certain it's not the right value for 2 in parallel.
For the record I'm using 4 x 500k CTS pots. Resistance testing them places them all somewhere about 480-506
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Post by long813 on Sept 8, 2012 15:47:09 GMT -5
While that's true, Surely that'd the case for all strats at position 4 anyway? That's definitely not right. There's only one cap in my second drawing and I'm fairly certain it's not the right value for 2 in parallel. For the record I'm using 4 x 500k CTS pots. Resistance testing them places them all somewhere about 480-506 Oops, yes. I did the opposite of what it should be.
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 8, 2012 16:27:24 GMT -5
It's been years since I did anything with electronics like this so I'm proud for remembering These are 3 humbuckers so i presume my cap of choice of a 0.22uF?
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 8, 2012 17:09:01 GMT -5
Hi Tog, First things first. Either drawing will work, with the minor difference I mentioned earlier regarding shared cap vs separate caps. Using 500k pots will make a noticeable difference (brighter) compared to 250k pots. No need to worry about slight differences between the 500k pots. I don't know if 500k is a better or worse choice for the lil killers. If they sound overly bright or brittle, you might want to change to 250k pots. Since I haven't tried them myself, I can't suggest one way or the other. While that's true, Surely that'd the case for all strats at position 4 anyway? That's right. You have the same overlapping of pots here as you would in a normal strat. But since you have a tone pot for the bridge you have an overlap in position 2 as well. If you found the overlap of tone controls to be a problem with a normal strat, you'll have the same kind of problems here. If you found it manageable there, you'll find it manageable here. These are 3 humbuckers so i presume my cap of choice of a 0.22uF? Ooops. You slipped a decimal place, Tog. 0.022uF (22nF) Cap value is a matter of personal taste. I know some people who prefer 47nF caps for HBs to get a deeper tone when the control is rolled down to 0. Cap value won't affect the tone when the control is at 10.
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 8, 2012 18:16:34 GMT -5
Hah, Yes i did miss a decimal place there. I had these pickups wired up with 500k alpha pots before and while the pots weren't to my taste (logarithmic but sounded linear) the 500k was perfect when not coil tapping.
I had three tone controls previously and I found no issue with positions 2-4.
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Post by sumgai on Sept 9, 2012 1:03:39 GMT -5
The tone pots are in parallel, as well as the capacitor. Using 250k pots, you're effectively reducing it to 125k A .047uF cap, reduces to 0.0235uF (at each pot) That's definitely not right.Tog, you're correct to object here, even if you don't know exactly why. (Or maybe you do, but you didn't express yourself clearly. ) ~!~!~!~!~ Long, I gotta send you to the penalty box! A resistance can never change the value of a cap, it can only change the effect of that cap. Put simply, the frequency response doesn't change, the same frequencies are either still present, or are still being suppressed. But the amount of that suppression, that's what gets greater as you rotate the Tone pot downards from 10. A great source of graphical imagery that explains all this is our very own JohnH's Guitar Freak - try it out and see if that makes more sense than my terse drivel. HTH sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Sept 9, 2012 2:12:25 GMT -5
And then there's that thing where the total inductance of the two pickups in parallel is less than either one by itself. This raises the cutoff frequency, while at the same time the parallel tone pots damp the resonant peak a bit. I've never known anybody to say that their tone got muddier switching from neck alone to neck+mid.
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 9, 2012 8:40:42 GMT -5
Long, I gotta send you to the penalty box! *pulls the ref aside for a conference* Seems more like an offside than a penalty. Maybe we should just drop the puck outside the zone? ;D I've never known anybody to say that their tone got muddier switching from neck alone to neck+mid. Yeah, pretty much that. One of the problems is that if you have the neck tone rolled way back, you end up with a dull tone in the neck+mid position too. But there's no way to fix that with this switch.
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 9, 2012 10:34:12 GMT -5
That's definitely not right.Tog, you're correct to object here, even if you don't know exactly why. (Or maybe you do, but you didn't express yourself clearly. ) sumgai I know electronics theory well enough to understand the effect but not how that equates to tone etc in a guitar so I kept my mouth shut Thanks for the help guys. It'll be a few weeks til the parts arrive but when they do i'll keep you all updated
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Post by long813 on Sept 9, 2012 11:06:30 GMT -5
That's definitely not right.Tog, you're correct to object here, even if you don't know exactly why. (Or maybe you do, but you didn't express yourself clearly. ) ~!~!~!~!~ Long, I gotta send you to the penalty box! A resistance can never change the value of a cap, it can only change the effect of that cap. Put simply, the frequency response doesn't change, the same frequencies are either still present, or are still being suppressed. But the amount of that suppression, that's what gets greater as you rotate the Tone pot downards from 10. A great source of graphical imagery that explains all this is our very own JohnH's Guitar Freak - try it out and see if that makes more sense than my terse drivel. HTH sumgai Ah, see, I made up some electrical theories! I saw the two parallel tone pots and for some reason said oh, I'll just say the cap is in parallel too (with what? ... exactly)! *Walks off willingly*
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Post by sumgai on Sept 9, 2012 20:53:57 GMT -5
Long, I gotta send you to the penalty box! *pulls the ref aside for a conference* Seems more like an offside than a penalty. Maybe we should just drop the puck outside the zone? Well, I was gonna impose a penalty of only 3 lashes with a wet high-e string..... It's not like I was gonna make him walk over to the bench and pickup a capacitor, one that he didn't know was fully charged to 400 volts! ...... *Walks off willingly* But only for as long as it takes to complete the argument with yourself (one that hopefully you'll win!). Then come on back, we'll keep the water hot for a spot o' tea. sumgai
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 11, 2012 14:52:48 GMT -5
Well, I was gonna impose a penalty of only 3 lashes with a wet high-e string..... Wet? Oh, you're going old-school acoustic gut or smth. That doesn't seem to harsh. Good thing you didn't suggest a wet 3rd string. We might have digressed into NSFW territory.
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Post by sumgai on Sept 11, 2012 18:19:00 GMT -5
Good thing you didn't suggest a wet 3rd string. We might have digressed into NSFW territory. Actually, that's where I started from..... I had to be forcibly dragged back to less-offensive waters..... But I may try again later, when the big men in white coats aren't looking!
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tog
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Post by tog on Sept 27, 2012 6:31:44 GMT -5
This is the finished product. It sounds just like the first time I made it but it looks much nicer. GFS steel block for the bridge and locking tuners are the main additions. There's alot more sustain than the zinc block.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 14:00:18 GMT -5
it looks great. well done.
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Post by newey on Sept 27, 2012 19:55:57 GMT -5
Nice build, tog! +1!
I like the "crackle" finish.
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