candyflipper7
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?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 14, 2012 10:44:07 GMT -5
Just curious if anyone has tried "or" (have Had a) owns a scalloped neck, on his "or" her guitar? If so, "or" if you have any experience playing with one. How is it? Any benefits "or" do you not like it for any reason. I would like to think the dips in the board would provide better bends and effect the pitch and sound over all. Here are some examples I found. Just thought it might be a good conversation in the forum, I found one on E Bay for around $30.00 and thinking about this for my "ELSA" Bride Of Frankenstrat HHH Project I am working on.
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Post by long813 on Dec 14, 2012 11:58:46 GMT -5
I played a few Vai Jems and a YJM strat. The scalloped board makes you control your fret pressure more. You are forced to apply only the right amount of pressure or the notes will go out of tune. It's actually a very good thing to have as the biggest technique flaw of guitarists is using to much pressure and being tense.
It does give you some extra abilities in bends and vibrato's though.
Similarly, if you get the largest fret wire, the end result is the same. I think 6100 is the biggest fretwire you can get?
If you want to take on the project I guess it comes does to which you think will be more fun to do.
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Post by 4real on Dec 14, 2012 17:12:57 GMT -5
Ultimate Scallop! ... thanks Sum... ;D
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Post by DarKnight on Dec 15, 2012 2:28:55 GMT -5
Hello candyflipper7! I have two guitars with scalloped necks and I really like it for the reasons long813 mentioned. It really helped me to reduce string pressure and made my playing less tense which solved my issues with sore hands after playing for a long time. You just can't play tense with the scalloped board or you're out of tune. I've made my own scallops so I'll drop some insight on that as well. It seems that scalloping isn't that hard if you just take your time and don't rush it. My basic tools have been a round file, a flat file for the center of the big frets and few different sandpapers for the finish - so no powertools! I find that doing by hand gives more control and the mistakes won't be so "spectacular". But let's see what I've got! First I did a seven stringer with full and rather deep scallop all the way, which really forced me to control string pressure, but I found I didn't really like the scallop on the first few frets. Partially because I wanted a place on the board where I can bash the chords and riffs around with force and not to mess up the tuning. ;D So now I'm sporting a modified strat as my main guitar in which I did a gradual scallop which starts around the third fret on the treble side and gradually reaches the bass side of the board and finally turns in to a full scallop around eight or so. Keeping the bass side unscalloped seems to help staying in tune when chording. So I inverted the one scallop like you can see on the Project Guitars tutorial: Picture above has the partial scallop on the bass side and I have it on the treble side. I think this type of scallop is good for me, because I've found the light touch through fully scalloped neck and now I'm having the scallop mostly for added ease with bending and as a reminder for keeping my touch light. In your case I would say that if you can try a scalloped neck for fair price (or for free if your friend has a one) go for it. You will be amazed by the airy feel when you're touching just the strings when playing. If it's your cup of tea is up to you. Hope this helps! Dark
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Post by 4real on Dec 15, 2012 2:36:57 GMT -5
+1 to you DK
Regardless of scalloping, everyone should try and play light. One problem that is perhaps addressed in DKs versions is that if you play complex chord forms, it's almost impossible to get an even string pressure, single note stuff sure and lots of potential, but a 5 fret spread chord oer multiple strings...well, that's going to be tricky at best.
Any tension in the hands and excessive pressure will tire you out plus slow you down...so scalloping or not...pretend that they are an play accordingly. I suspect that modifying my LP that I played exclusively for 25 years taught me though, modified with jumbo frets as you did back then (late 70's) from the 'fretless wonder' it was, you really did notice the tuning if you pushed to hard!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 4:24:56 GMT -5
Hello, i own a partscaster with scalloped neck, which i bought from ebay/china for 75 euros. It is the best neck i ever owned. It is supposed to be a malmsteen replica. It is this : Well my take is quite different from the friends above. For me, the scalloped neck is a shredder's neck. No energy is wasted from friction of the fingertips against rosewood or maple fretboard. The things i have experienced are as follows : - Fretting pressure is no issue, if you are a shredder there is no time to press hard anyway - Scalloped effect is more verbose on the bass side of the fretboard. When effortless vibrato is more likely to be wished for. - On the treble side of the fretboard, (15th fret ++), due to the physics of the thing, there is not a big effect, since fingers rarely have room to touch the wood in the space of two adjacent frets. So, even in the non-scalloped case, usually fingers do not touch the wood. But again, all the above are very dependent on the technique. My kind of style/technique is from rock/metal (yngwie), thrash/nu-metal, but also some balkan-jazz influence. Maybe for 75 euros, this is the best thing i ever owned. Of course fret-work sucked, but i tried to take care of it (will cost me +100 EUR, but what the heck ;D)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 4:32:01 GMT -5
4real, this is the axe i am trying to solve the sustain issues on 12th fret. Surely better machine heads will help. I will have to put a lot work on this guitar. And i will have to increase its weight. Heavier always feels better.
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Post by 4real on Dec 15, 2012 4:45:48 GMT -5
4real, this is the axe i am trying to solve the sustain issues on 12th fret. Surely better machine heads will help. I will have to put a lot work on this guitar. And i will have to increase its weight. Heavier always feels better. It says 'fender' on the headstock? Not paid enough attention to have heard of the 12th fret problem. Certainly, if you camp somehting on the head to add 'mass' that might give you an indication if that will help. If you use a trem, locking tuners are a good idea and are heavy if good...i prefer schallers like fenders have standard myself. You don't want 'heavy' so the neck is falling. I'm surprised that there would be a problem at the 12th fret as it is so close to the neck joint, the head is not usually having myuch of an influence...although... The length of the string behind the 12th fret is 'tuned' much as behind and so there is quite possibly an interference problem from the long length of string and behind. Wrap a sock or something around the nut to dampen the strings, this is what many tappers and others do in the studio to play clean...and see if that alters anything. The head may not be a part of things nor a solution. I dampen my strings behind the fretted notes generally....hmmm. The scalloping too might have some bearing as well, can't think quite how to 'test this' but it mgiht be that the resonance effect is greater for that...not sure why, but just got this feeling from playing my LP, though that does not seem to ahve that kind of problem. When I was a late teen, I used to play hours a day and gig and also, paid attention to technique like that to play cleaning and with control when I had to play 'loud' so, possibly my technique developed a bit to handle these things without me knowing. I have to say, my technique has suffered considerably in recent years!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 10:40:27 GMT -5
It says 'fender' on the headstock? Yes!, It was not very decent and honest thing to do for the chinese maker Not paid enough attention to have heard of the 12th fret problem. Certainly, if you camp somehting on the head to add 'mass' that might give you an indication if that will help. If you use a trem, locking tuners are a good idea and are heavy if good...i prefer schallers like fenders have standard myself. I had done the experiment with the set of wrenches attached to the back of the headstock with the help of rope and it had a tremendous effect on the sustain of G, @12th fret. Also the "push headstock against the wall" experiment and it showed even better improvement. But, when i attached some pieces of heavy lead with the help of double side adhesive tape, i didn't see much of improvement. Schaller will probably by my #1 choice when i get to that. ( i read good things about planetwaves as well). You don't want 'heavy' so the neck is falling. I'm surprised that there would be a problem at the 12th fret as it is so close to the neck joint, the head is not usually having myuch of an influence...although... Yes, sure, although it will never be worse than a les-paul kind of guitar, where the balancing is generally worse. But really playable. I mean if Les Paul is great to play, this thing will never get worse than that. I would think it has to do with harmonics, or some "equal" opposing vibrations which auto-self cancel themselves or something along the line. The 12th fret position is very suspicious for such behaviors. IMHO. The length of the string behind the 12th fret is 'tuned' much as behind and so there is quite possibly an interference problem from the long length of string and behind. Wrap a sock or something around the nut to dampen the strings, this is what many tappers and others do in the studio to play clean...and see if that alters anything. The head may not be a part of things nor a solution. I dampen my strings behind the fretted notes generally....hmmm. I will do that experiment, but if you notice there is a string tree for G as well, so that would dampen the string. The scalloping too might have some bearing as well, can't think quite how to 'test this' but it mgiht be that the resonance effect is greater for that...not sure why, but just got this feeling from playing my LP, though that does not seem to ahve that kind of problem. When I was a late teen, I used to play hours a day and gig and also, paid attention to technique like that to play cleaning and with control when I had to play 'loud' so, possibly my technique developed a bit to handle these things without me knowing. I have to say, my technique has suffered considerably in recent years! Yes, this guitar is definitely louder than the other strat. More resonant when played unplugged. Let;s how it turns out. One thing i am afraid of, pushing with rush two many mods all at once, and screwing any chance to draw some useful conclusions. I will try to resist that, by all means !
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candyflipper7
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?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 15, 2012 14:32:49 GMT -5
Wow....Thanks so much for all of the input! I am really pleased with all of the replies. Darknight you shed a lot of light on the subject and answered many of my curiosities about "Scallop necks" as did pyrros and 4real. I am looking to try something different with my newest build which I am actually doing wiring for the first time on a build. Forum users such as 4real have helped me out in other forums as well and given good advice and offered huge amounts of knowledge. Scalloped necks seem to not only add character and beauty to an already gorgeous instrument, but from the post to this topic I have learned that functionality also is a huge factor which I can benefit from. I own a few guitars, and after joining GN2 my eyes have been opened to so many possibilities to custom designing an instrument to suit your taste and style. Thanks for all of the feedback on this, hope to hear more about this actually. I have come to the conclusion that I am going to give it a try on my newest build "ELSA" (Bride of Frankenstrat HHH Lipstick Project) By the way to all who have shared pics of guitars. Beautiful Instruments! And Dark....Thanks for that link~ Very informative. Read-Bookmarked & saved as web page. I will be using that advice and tutorial in the near future.
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candyflipper7
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?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 15, 2012 14:37:11 GMT -5
By the way pyrros- That's one of the necks I was looking at today. I love the Larger peg head. Not only for looks but I think it helps with tone also. Beautiful Partscaster. I can't wait to get started on my project. Planning takes so long, finding the right parts, advice a so on. But It will be worth it in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 16:10:32 GMT -5
Thanx Candyflipper,
here is a very short demo of this guitar :
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candyflipper7
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?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 16, 2012 8:11:22 GMT -5
;D TY for sharing that. Nice playing. very nice touch there. Love it, I'm sold.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 14:59:47 GMT -5
thanx man, point i'd like to emphasize is that with *this* kind of style you won't even notice you are playing a scalloped fretboard. Also, i'd like to say that Yngwie's string action is rather huge : smth like 3-4mm at last fret. So, i think the guy must be pressing pretty hard in order to fret the notes in the 1st place, but he never screws the intonation because this is perceived like an intense vibrato rather than loss of intonation. Variable fretting pressure is effectively vibrato, while wrongly applied constant over-pressure (just like over-bending in the usual non-scalloped version of vibrato) can be perceived as "out of tune".
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Post by long813 on Dec 16, 2012 15:03:58 GMT -5
thanx man, point i'd like to emphasize is that with *this* kind of style you won't even notice you are playing a scalloped fretboard. Also, i'd like to say that Yngwie's string action is rather huge : smth like 3-4mm at last fret. So, i think the guy must be pressing pretty hard in order to fret the notes in the 1st place, but he never screws the intonation because this is perceived like an intense vibrato rather than loss of intonation. Variable fretting pressure is effectively vibrato, while wrongly applied constant over-pressure (just like over-bending in the usual non-scalloped version of vibrato) can be perceived as "out of tune". Well with 8's on I bet the action if high to combat the spaghetti like tension, 0.008, 0.11, 0.14, 0.22, 0.34, 0.46 (from his site) Personally 11's are where I like to be, YM is something else!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 14:50:18 GMT -5
thanx man, point i'd like to emphasize is that with *this* kind of style you won't even notice you are playing a scalloped fretboard. Also, i'd like to say that Yngwie's string action is rather huge : smth like 3-4mm at last fret. So, i think the guy must be pressing pretty hard in order to fret the notes in the 1st place, but he never screws the intonation because this is perceived like an intense vibrato rather than loss of intonation. Variable fretting pressure is effectively vibrato, while wrongly applied constant over-pressure (just like over-bending in the usual non-scalloped version of vibrato) can be perceived as "out of tune". Well with 8's on I bet the action if high to combat the spaghetti like tension, 0.008, 0.11, 0.14, 0.22, 0.34, 0.46 (from his site) Personally 11's are where I like to be, YM is something else! if you listen to yngwie's vibrato, you can tell right away the the guy has massive strength in his fingers, and he presses really hard. When he does his vibrato, it seems he wants to crush the neck. He does that with his ovation as well, nothing to do with light strings. If a person with so strong hands manages to stay in tune (note: huge action brings additional intonation problems as well), then no doubt it is a no issue. About strings, i found above 10's the squeel harmonics in the low 3 strings are suffocated.
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Post by long813 on Dec 20, 2012 16:18:43 GMT -5
Well with 8's on I bet the action if high to combat the spaghetti like tension, 0.008, 0.11, 0.14, 0.22, 0.34, 0.46 (from his site) Personally 11's are where I like to be, YM is something else! About strings, i found above 10's the squeel harmonics in the low 3 strings are suffocated. Could be a settings, amp, technique, pickup issue. I've only used 11s-13s and I really like the PH's I get on my guitars. Hell even on my acoustics with 13s it's great (not metal-rock-on-death-to-all, but you know...)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 0:41:17 GMT -5
About strings, i found above 10's the squeel harmonics in the low 3 strings are suffocated. Could be a settings, amp, technique, pickup issue. we are talking about same guitar, settings, amp, technique, pickups. Maybe too huge strings do not have much room to vibrate. Could sustain longer tho, now that i think about it.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 21, 2012 10:56:53 GMT -5
pyrros, As a former bass player (on many occasions), I can tell you that I've played many basses belonging to other players. I have personally seen (expensive) basses that have action as low as most guitars, and they played like melted butter, with nary a rattle of the strings against the neck or frets. That comes from proper setup, to be sure, but what I'm addressing here is, the strings weren't "tiny", not be a long shot. The size (diameter) of the string does have to be taken into account during setup, but ultimately the setup can achieve the desired results, if someone takes the time to do it correctly, without shortcuts. As a side note, I'll interject only one additional comment here, even thought it properly belongs in your Sustain thread.... IME, a guitar or bass with strings going through the body tends to sustain much longer than those with the strings anchored in the bridge plate or the tone block. I've one friend with a Fender Jazz bass made in 1974, and the E string on that thing is still vibrating from the time I played it in 2008!! I mean, my body was just suffused with the string's energy so deeply, it was like chanting "Om Mani Padre Hum" a hundred times. Rune, are you listening? Your next Tone-Plastic geetar should be a solid-body Strat, sans any kind of Trem-o-Leo..... Let's see how that sounds and sustains. HTH sumgai
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Post by thetragichero on Aug 1, 2013 23:53:31 GMT -5
scalloped from the seventh fret down on a squier baseball neck that's now on the guitar i use for grindcore. not sure if it's had any real effects, but it looks cool and is fun to play and always elicits questions from other guitarists. also extends the time until i need to refret it!
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knot
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Post by knot on Aug 31, 2013 4:28:15 GMT -5
greekdude... if you are looking for more sustain out of your bolt on... i have a few tips and tricks i have gathered over the years. the biggest reason for loss of sustain on a bolt on is the air pocket between the neck and body. one thing you might want to think about if you pull the neck... make sure there is no sealant or paint on the joint surface (both sides) if there is you might want to think about a little mild sanding. wood is porous and has little 'echo chambers' (cells) that transfer tone and sustain. it is best to let the wood breathe. mass does not equal sustain but it is in the equation one trick i have done since i was a kid was to take a brass disc, bore a hole in it, countersink (optional) and screw it down to the body inside the pickguard which did aid sustain on cheaper guitars. they also make something called a 'fat finger' i think it is that just clamps onto the headstock (no modification) which they claim adds quite a bit of sustain (not tried that one) and last but not least... you can glue a small metal block onto the block below your tremelo so when you release tremelo to it's normal position that the tremelo block actually rests on the wood. that alone will give you the most sustain from a stock fender tremelo... it allows the vibrations to linger in the wood. there a few videos on youtube about 'blocking' your tremelo... check em out. just a thought... and hello all from Knot Hardly... my music persona i am new here and just trying to help out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 2:29:06 GMT -5
Man i agree with everything you say. I have checked the paint in the neck pocket, its ok. Now gotta try your other tricks, although i am not so sustain-obsessed these days Also, i have tried attaching a set of steel wrenches to the headstock, and it indeed improved the sustain on *some* notes. There is always the possibility that the problem is moved elsewhere! Sustain must be measured in all useful frets, not just e.g. G, 12th fret!
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knot
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Post by knot on Sept 2, 2013 19:01:32 GMT -5
well i had an idea i am gonna try on my own stuff... it is the thermal paste you put between CPU and Heatsinks when building computers. it is mostly a metal paste and should not absorb into the wood in theory but have yet to try it. but it would be a great way to cut out the air pockets in the neck joint. it's just a thought...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 3:33:48 GMT -5
^^^ you just wrote promotion material!
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 6, 2013 8:45:22 GMT -5
well i had an idea i am gonna try on my own stuff... it is the thermal paste you put between CPU and Heatsinks when building computers. it is mostly a metal paste and should not absorb into the wood in theory but have yet to try it. but it would be a great way to cut out the air pockets in the neck joint. it's just a thought... Well, I thought I'd seen just about everything you could shove into a neck pocket, but you got me with this one. When you say "air pockets", what exactly are you referring to? If you have an issue with a neck pocket not precisely fitting the neck, then you're looking at a couple options. If it's one of those "never gonna fit tight" issues, which I assume it is in this case, it all comes down to how much slop there is in the joint. Small gaps can be made up with some hardwood veneer strips strategically placed. A little sanding on a precut piece sometimes can do the job without having to build up multiple pieces. If it's sloppier than what one piece can remedy, you can use multiple pieces, but you're gonna want to get out the wood glue for this operation. Some final sanding and\or filing may be necessary for the final fit, but not too bad as a rule. The most extreme option is to fill the neck pocket with hardwood and just reroute. I'm not a big fan of this one, as it's a lot of work. I gotta say, if I had the option to use CPU paste or just a torn off piece of matchbook...I'd go with the matchbook and save the $5.00. You'll probably get a better result with the matchbook. HTC1
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Post by lunaalta on Sept 6, 2013 9:48:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I think CPU paste is aimed at aiding heat transfer.
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Post by sumgai on Sept 6, 2013 10:46:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I think CPU paste is aimed at aiding heat transfer. Maybe he's a really hot player?
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knot
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Post by knot on Sept 9, 2013 6:55:49 GMT -5
well it is a fact that tightening down a neck and body DOES leave minute air pockets unless it has perfectly matched sides which NONE do. AND the air trapped in the joint does KILL sustain. i was not telling anyone to try my idea about the metal paste. it is just a thought and worth checking out on my own stuff (i have a project guitar i do crap on) but if it is just SO funny to you guys... i think i will not post anymore about it.
i have found a lot of things in neck joints myself over the years from cardboard to clothe and more. SO APPARENTLY others know the problems with bolt on necks. you can think it funny if you want... you can lead a mule to water but you can't make the butt drink! the reasoning behind the thermal paste is that it is MOSTLY metal which would aid in the vibration transfer while removing ANY trapped air in the pocket.
not trying to be snide but some replies seem a bit pompous! yes i may be a bit crazy but ONLY crazy people are creative.
and cynical i hope that explains better what i speak of. i do not have an ill fitted neck... i am talking about the air trapped in the 'perfect' neck joint. most all fit fine nowadays due to computers cutting the wood... but they all are nowhere near 'perfect'. you can test your neck joint easily. take a black magic marker and paint one side of the joint. put it back together and tighten it to spec. wait a minute or so for good transfer... take it back apart and look at the un-coated side and you can see where the other side (the one coated in black) actually made contact. even tightened down to spec you can see it does not all actually make complete contact.
sry if i am being a butt...
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 9:32:01 GMT -5
Knot,
Take it in stride, Honestly, there is no need to be upset. Be glad that some nutz felt comfortable to joke with you.
We are no strangers to to odd solutions for typical guitar problems. If you want to put thermal paste in your neck pocket, go for it. But if you do, try making some before and after sound samples to share if it actually helps or not. Personally given that neck pockets are typically unfinished, I'd be worried about grease/paste staining (and weakening) said pocket and having the grease weep to the finish along the edges thus trashing the finish around the pocket forever (as once it's greased soaked, you'll have that problem forever). Same goes for the neck screw holes. Before trying thermal paste, If it were me, I'd try using something KNOWN for not absorbing into wood and is and easy to clean (by comparison) like wax, beeswax specifically. If you do decide to use some type of paste, I'd go with 100% teflon as it does not have any grease in it and can be cleaned from wood.
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Post by gumbo on Sept 9, 2013 9:37:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I think CPU paste is aimed at aiding heat transfer. Maybe he's a really hot player? ...careful sg, you'll start derailing this thread....
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