Superswitch wiring diagram

[brandonib]

I'm sorry but I posted this to the "Pickups" section earlier.

I'm having trouble finding a clear solution to what I assumed would be a simple search for a wiring diagram.

Early-80's Robin Ranger.
Bridge - Dimarzio Chopper (not original)
Middle - single-coil.
Neck - two-conductor humbucker.

Super-switch
2 push/pull pots. (NOT SURE IF BOTH ARE NEEDED)

Can anyone direct me to a clearly drawn diagram that will give me the most flexibility on tones. It's not a stage-guitar and I don't care about switching on the fly. I just want the most tonal options possible. I've seen some great wiring diagrams all over the net but surprisingly, nothing that is exactly what I need. Unfortunately, I'm not great at figuring out schematics unless I see something clearly wired completely. I'm great at soldering but I need to know where the wires go. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much
Here's something I found that is very close and I love the way this is drawn - very simple for a guy like me. Again, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much and it's great to have found this site. Brandon

i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww316/JohnDHewitt/GN2/HSHx15050910a.gif

[JohnH]

Hi Brandonib, and welcome to GN2.

That's my diagram, so thanks for the kind words!

If that kind of switching appeals, the only thing stopping you is that the neck pickup needs 4 conductors, while yours only has 2. Its not actually al that hard to convert them. Ive done it on a couple of sets and not lost one yet. If you were interested in tackling this, we can point at links and photos.

The design in the diagram is based on the idea that out of a zillion options with so many coils, the best ones are the simplest using just 1 or 2 coils. But thats just a premiss, you might not agree - eg, it dosnt do N and B full humbuckers together

Whatever wiring scheme you decide on, if you make this conversion it greatly increases your options.

But if that does not appeal, then you will be using the neck pickup just as a single unit, and you could look at most HSS diagrams.

Ill look around for more options
John

[brandonib]

Hi JohnH! Thanks so much for your reply and the warm welcome to the forum. What a great site!

Yes, you deserve kudos for that diagram. It's as clear as any I've seen and I've been looking for months! I've only wired a few guitars in my 30+ years of playing and I haven't had the time to really learn how it all works. I just want to solder the wires where they go and play!

I also agree with you that the best tones are the simplest with one or two coils. My all-time favorite tones are Strat N/M pickups, either individually or together. Unfortunately, with this guitar the N/M combo is not a great tone. The B/M is exceptional, though and I think the B/N combo will be good, as well. That's one of my main objectives (B/N combo). Sorry, I didn't read your diagram carefully enough until just now and I see that this doesn't allow that access. If I could, I'd swap the #2position(N/M) for B/N. Any chance of accessing other options with the push/pulls both out? There's nothing indicated in your diagram. Is that a kill option with both out?

I'm not sure I'm up to converting this HB to a 4-conductor. It's a chrome RioGrande Texas Humbucker from the early-80's and I'm a little nervous about hacking into it. www.riograndepickups.com/scart/ProductPage.asp?ImageLink=TXTN&ProductName=For+Humbuckings

If you see any other diagrams or if your's is easily modified, please let me know. I sincerely appreciate your help and it's great to connect with you.

Thanks again for the input and assistance.
All the best! Brandon

[JohnH]

I think maybe better to start with a different diagram, given what you are after.

And if you prefer not to mess with the N humbucker, then you might do very well with the following:

A standard Strat set up, with B, B+M, M, M+N, N on the 5-way switch, master tone, master volume
add, one of the push/pulls switches B on, in addition to whatever else, so you can get B+N or all three
add, the other push pull cuts B down to a single coil (pick the one to humcancell with M)

That's all quite simple and can be done with a normal 5-way switch, but if you already have a super-switch that can be oK too if wired apprpriately.

If that appeals, I suspect a diagram already exists somewhere, but I could help if not, over the next week or so.

John

[brandonib]

Hi John,
I think that sounds like a great arrangement. In fact, I found this one on Dimarzio yesterday:
www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/1h2s_ep1112_1pptaddneck.pdf

The guitar is already wired with a push/pull tone splitting the bridge. This might be easier than I think. I guess I'm just looking for a simple diagram like yours that clearly tells me exactly where each wire should go. With a business to run, wife, two young daughters, life, guitar, etc., etc. I don't have a lot of extra time on my hands to waste trying to figure out a mistake, should it happen.

Again, thanks so much for your help and guidance. I'm going to keep looking this morning and get to it one way or another today. I want this done and then on to the next one!
Take care and thanks again. -Brandon

[JohnH]

Good find - you wont find a closer diagram than that to what you want.

The DiM daugram auto-splits the bridge in position 2, whereas you can have it controlled by the push pull, which would be on the volume pot. Also, the DiM diagram has a neck-on switch. The alteranative is a bridge-on switch. they achieve the same range of sounds, its your choice, just a slight difference in opertaion.

I could mark up that diagram with how to change it.

Or, do you already have it wired with the 5 way switch and bridge coil cut, and the usual 5 selections. ie, exactly what does it do right now? If so, you can probably just whack in the bridge on switch and be done with it - and we can work on how to do that.

[brandonib]

Hey John! Man, I can't thank you enough for the help with this. Right now, it's a standard 5-way with a tone push/pull that splits the bridge. That's it.

I didn't notice that 4 position bridge split on the dimarzio diagram, until you mentioned it. Thanks for seeing that. I prefer the normal setting (both coils on the bridge) with a separate push/pull to split the bridge.

Here's exactly what I'd like:
Volume push/pull splits bridge, Tone push/pull adds Neck. I'm starting from scratch as the pots need replacing. I don't know much about series/parallel/out-of-phase and how to access all of that but I'd be happy to have more tonal options, if possible. If not, the simple plan above is perfect.

With all the time I've taken to search the web for diagrams, I probably could be a wiring expert by now! I think it might be wise for me to start spending time actually learning exactly how to wire and why, rather than just how to solder.

If you're up to putting something together, I'd greatly appreciate any assistance.
Thanks again!

[JohnH]

ok - ill just adapt the DiM diagram - a quick job. Im assuming you have a superswitch, with the 24 lugs, like on that diag?

[JohnH]

Here it is, not so pretty, but I thinks its all here, and better than waiting:



Since you now have two push pull pots, you'll be soldering ground connections to the lug that is on the back of the switch, rather than the side of the pot. there are quite a few wires to ground (all listed), and you can chose which pot/switch to ground them too, or even run a bare wire between the two switch ground lugs and attach other wires along that.

When you engage coil cut, you will want the resulting single coil to be humcancelling with the middle single. Presumably the current wiring does that too, and if so, confirm that it is the black and while bridge wires that get connected to the switch.

pp pots have their switches on the back, I drew it to the side.

Should work i think....

John

[brandonib]

Wow! John, thank you so much for this. It looks quite simple to me. Not a lot of wires.

Yes, I have a superswitch and currently the mid/bridge is hum-cancelling.

I can't wait to get to this. Tomorrow's a holiday here so I know what I'm planning on (assuming the wife doesn't already have plans for me).

I'll get on this and let you know how it goes. Anything I can do for you? I'm new guitarnuts and I'd like to know what is proper with regard to Karma and how to help others or reciprocate. Let me know the protocol and again, thanks SO much!

[JohnH]

You are welcome, and lets hope it works out!

There's nothing expected in return, other than to share what you think and how it goes, so we can all learn something. Join in other thraeds if you see something where you have a view.

It would be interesting to hear what you think of that chopper pickup, and how it sounds when you split it or combine it.

Photos and simple soundclips are always appreciated, if you are set up to record (most people aren't though).

cheers
John

[brandonib]

Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to being active in the gn2 community. Also, I've "Exalted" you twice. Is that what increases your Karma rating? What does the "Smile" button do?

One question on the diagram: The Dimarzio diagram had the bridge black and white wires going to the third lug on the superswitch and there was a ground going from the first lug. Your diagram has them mostly erased. I just want to confirm that's correct and there's no ground required from the superswitch. I see where the black and white go but I just wanted to confirm that there's no need to ground the switch.

I can't figure out how to post an image. I tried posting your original diagram in my initial post but I couldn't control+v it. I have recording capabilities and I guess that is another thing I need to learn how to post. Again, any suggestions.

Once it's completed, I'll post an image of the job, the guitar, and some sound-clips.

I hope you have a great day, today and thanks again for everything.
Sincerely, Brandon

[JohnH]

Thats all fine. On the original diagram, the upper left part of the switch had the task of connecting the black/white to ground, on position 2 only. But you dont want any of that, since the new design has this on a push pull. So none of the main switch lugs is grounded.

BTW, do you have any shielding in the cavity or foil behind the pick guard? (does it have a pg?). It cuts down some noise and is a good idea, though this design does not particularly call for it more than your original wiring.

Posting images and clips:

We cant actually host them here, so you have to put them somewhere on the internet (photobucket, imageshack, soundclick, soundcloud etc), and post a link. To make the link appear as an image, write IMG and /IMG at either end, each enclosed in [] square brackets

[brandonib]

Hi John,
I got into it yesterday but didn't have enough time to finish. The only question I have is the neck doesn't have a black wire. It has red, white, and bare. Any suggestions? Again, this is an early-80's copy of a '57 classic humbucker like the one in the link. I'm not sure if this is any help, at all but thought I'd share it.
www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/gibson-57-classic-humbucker-neck-pickup/306000000377000?src=3WWRWXGP&kpid=mf306000.377&gclid=CNvOnq3Z_LQCFal7QgodDgYA1w

I've looked all over for color codes for Robin guitars as well as Rio Grande Pickups and can't find anything definitive. I'm going to try the red in place of the black with the white and bare together to the ground. Any thoughts, otherwise?

Thanks again!

[JohnH]

the best clue would be how it was wires before, was red to hot? bare will be ground, but was white also grounded?

[brandonib]

I wish I had paid attention and taken photos before I took all the wires off. Rookie mistake! I'll just have to test it out manually. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again.

[JohnH]

how about test connections with a multimeter? A very useful tool. A cheap one is fine. Mesaure resistance red to white, white to bare, bare to white.

the other possibility is if the white is a coil tap wire, but less likely

[brandonib]

I don't have one but I'll check the cost at a local shop. Thanks for the suggestion and the how-to. I'll let you know what I find. Yes, I doubt it's a coil-tap but I guess I should check with the multi-meter.

I'll let you know.

[brandonib]

Hey John, one more quick question:
Does it matter if I use a slightly larger gauge wire than the leads from the pickup? If the pickup wires are 22gauge (or whatever they are) and I solder them to an 18 or 16 is that going to give me any problems?
Thanks!

[JohnH]

you can use any wire that is convenient, the gage makes no difference to the sound.

[brandonib]

Perfect! Thanks again

[brandonib]

Hey John! Well, I finally got it all together. The cavities were very small so I had to route out two of them a bit but it all went in and sounds great. The only issue is the bridge isn't splitting when I pull the volume knob up. It's not a big deal, though. I rarely used it in single-coil before. I might go back in eventually and re-wire it all with a bit more efficient wiring and replace the pot. It's possible that I heated it too much while soldering the grounds. Some of the wire I used was pretty rigid, also. I need to purchase some smaller gauge wire for the future projects. Anyway, thanks again for all the help.

One quick question regarding caps. The cap that was in there originally was a larger .223 than the very small cap (.022) the guys at my local shop sold me. What's the difference in those two caps? I used the original .223 because I loved the tone the way it was and I didn't want that to change. On the upcoming project, I want to go all -out with all of the electronics, including new pickups. I noticed your "better treble-bleed circuit" article and I'm going to implement that into the next project, as well. Anyway, thanks again for helping me make the changes I desired and for all of your time and guidance. All the best, Brandon

[newey]

Glad you got it working, Brandon, even though with a problem.

I might go back in eventually and re-wire it all with a bit more efficient wiring and replace the pot. It's possible that I heated it too much while soldering the grounds.

If you'd fried the pot, it wouldn't work properly. The fact that everything works except the bridge coil split push/pull indicates a problem with the wiring of that switch.

The "series junction" of the bridge pickup is wired to the middle lug of the P/P, which is the common lug. That connection is likely to be OK since you're getting the bridge HB; if the connection there was bad, you'd probably only be getting one coil at all times.

More likely is the blue grounding wire that connects to the right-hand side of the P/P and then to ground. If you have a poor connection at either end of this wire, it would result in the P/P switch not operating to split the coils.

The cap that was in there originally was a larger .223 than the very small cap (.022) the guys at my local shop sold me.

Are you referring to the physical size of the respective caps? And, was "223" a number that you read off the side of the older cap?

Physical size of the cap is fairly meaningless, different types of construction and materials result in different physical sizes. A larger cap may also be one that can handle a higher voltage, but our pickups don't produce enough voltage for that to be an issue. We're only concerned with the capacitance value.

If "223" was a number you read off the side of the old cap, that would indicate that it is a .022µf cap (i.e., .022 microfarads-we do need to pay attention to the units!) The number is a code for the value. The first 2 digits ("2" and "2") indicate the value. The third digit ("3") is the multiplier, indicating the number of decimal places.

So the cap they sold you is exactly what you had, assuming my inferences above are correct. .022µf is a fairly standard value for guitar tone circuits.

Understand that changing the cap value won't have any affect on your tone with the tone control at "10", it only comes into play as you turn the tone knob down. Changing the cap value affects the way the tone control "rolls off" the highs (assuming we're talking about the std tone wiring here).

[sumgai]

Jan 27, 2013 9:44:39 GMT -5 newey said:

Understand that changing the cap value won't have any affect on your tone with the tone control at "10", it only comes into play as you turn the tone knob down. Changing the cap value affects the way the tone control "rolls off" the highs (assuming we're talking about the std tone wiring here).

Well, akshully......

Changing the cap value changes the frequency that will be rolled off by the tone control. The control itself affects the "way" the tone changes only by virtue of its taper, in conjunction with any other pickup-loading components.




nit-picking sumgai

[JohnH]

I agree with newey. Do you believe you are getting the full humbucker sound of the bridge? or could it be permanently in single coil mode?

The cap designation 223 means 22,000 pF, which is the same as 0.022uF, so a very typical value for a tone cap.

[brandonib]

Hello Gentlemen and thanks for the input and info on caps. I assumed size was relevant but apparently it isn't, which good to know.

Before the mod, I remember a bit of difference between full and single mode but not a huge difference so it's possible it could be in the single mode. I'll listen more closely and maybe I'll even open her up and check that connection newey mentioned:

(More likely is the blue grounding wire that connects to the right-hand side of the P/P and then to ground. If you have a poor connection at either end of this wire, it would result in the P/P switch not operating to split the coils.)

I'll check this out and let you know. Again, I can't thank you enough for the input. The new pots sound great and the combo of the bridge and neck is fantastic. It also sounds great with all three p/u's. It's doing exactly what I wanted except for the bridge split. Hopefully, I can resolve it easily .

Again, thanks for the help. I'll be in touch.

[sumgai]

brandon,

Before you open up your axe for a closer look at the wiring, I suggest that you ask John to explain the Tap Test, and then if that doesn't work out, you might want to give these two threads a read:

Brain Scanning Through The Nostril

Brain Scanning For Humbucking Pickups

All of this, of course, is meant only to defer the need to tear into your guitar, yet again.

HTH





sumgai

[JohnH]

lighty tap the poles with a screwdriver tip to see which are active. On a humbucker cut to a single, the inactive one will be quieter (but probably not zero).

More positive is to measure resistance across the output jack in each mode, then you can see if it changes with single coil mode.

[newey]

Before the mod, I remember a bit of difference between full and single mode but not a huge difference so it's possible it could be in the single mode. I'll listen more closely and maybe I'll even open her up and check that connection newey mentioned:

Before opening it up, there are a couple of checks that you can do.

First, you can use the "screwdriver tap test" to see which coils are operating in the given switch positions. Sometimes with HBs, it can be hard to tell when a coil is "on", since the adjacent coil will give some signal even when not "on". But in your case, it should be apparent when you compare positions, split coil vs. full HB.

Also, if you have a multimeter, you can measure the resistance at the output jack for the bridge, again in the SC vs. HB positions. Make sure the V and T are at 10 when you measure this. A full HB will usually be in the 9K-12K range,, while in SC mode it will be much less, and should be roughly half of full HB value.

EDIT: I'm at work, so I had to leave the reply for a bit- and sg and John both ninja'd me in the meantime. So, what they said . . .

[brandonib]

I don't have a multimeter but this is the second time in a week it's been suggested so I think it's time to splurge and spend $5 at my local Harbor Freight Tools!

I'll do the tap test and let you know what I come up with. I really don't want to have to take that thing apart. It has three very small cavities with not much room for movement. I had to route it a bit to fit the superswitch in and it still barely made it.

I'll keep you posted and as always, thanks!