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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 3:33:01 GMT -5
Coming back from this thread : guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4930&page=2Cynical made a nice overview of the sound recording/processing software for Linux and also mentioned JACK. I installed JACK and played a little bit with it. It allows various applications to interconnect their inputs/outputs via JACK which works as a central switching system. So we could have program A send its output to program B which sends it's own ouput for further processing to program C which finally sends it's output to JACK for effective output to the system (speakers). The whole idea resembles a lot unix pipes and unix sockets, so it is a very linux thing, i guess. I played also with rakarrack rakarrack.sourceforge.net/ a multi-effects program with 60 presets and also guitarix guitarix.sourceforge.net/ an amp simulator. So one could send his guitar output to rakarrack, rakarrack's output to guitarix head, then send this output to guitarix effects, then to system output, and/or in parallel to audacity for recording, all via JACK. Impressive! I took me about 10 minutes to figure out JACK's logic, (read : to get some sound out of the speakers ) but it was quite usable. Got some nice sounds as well. Real time computing is a b h for normal workstation/server intended OS's (general purpose) (such as linux) but the end result was quite good, and the latency minimal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 12:36:40 GMT -5
Heard good things about hydrogen, the drum machine : www.hydrogen-music.org/hcms/ . Haven't checked this out yet in action, but will do in due time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 15:44:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 6:30:48 GMT -5
Finally made some tracks with a combination (not always all of them at once ) of : -Ardour -Audacity -Rakarrack -JACK -qjackctl
and my boss me-25.
Finally made my way, but problem is the guitars are sounding ... thin.... especially when i use the me-25. When i use rackarrack's metal amp, it sounds better. Can't get that freaking heavy drop tuned nu-metal tone... Tried with the Ibanez and the two strats, and although the SC equipped strat did surprisingly well in the nu-metal dept.
Let's see i'll try employing some EQ settings from the me-25, but smth tells me that the system needs clean sound to begin with....
I would like to get that "disturbed" kind of sound. Thick heavy yet clean. All i get is some thin thrash sounding tone from the 80s. Not bad, i am happy but not good.
Also, smth tells me if i want pro-tone i gotta spend 100+ EURO on Mixbus for linux or smth equivalent. Anyway, i wont give it up.
As a side note, lurking in related forums, it is just amazing to see the level of people getting involved in business (sound, recording), open source or not. Amazing amount of products and technologies ... WOW
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 31, 2013 11:25:11 GMT -5
Greek - Your link didn't turn up anything, but you can hit your sound clip at: soundcloud.com/greekdude888I'm guessing you're probably not much of a Bonnie Raitt fan... I admire your dedication to recording in Linux. While some of the LADSPA plugins are good, your selection is limited at best. And JACK, while about the only game in town, was more work than I wanted to put in to accomplish less than I could in Windows. Don't take that the wrong way. I have no axe to grind and would like to get away from the Redmond yoke as much as the next guy...but the simple fact is the it's just easier in Windows. Starting out like you are it's probably not much of a problem, but to people with a library of .vst plugins the whole Linux thing is a non-starter. Once they jump that hurdle I'll be one of the first to jump ship...until then I'll just be looking over the fence. Keep up the good work...and I have to +1 you just for getting this far. Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 11:29:55 GMT -5
+1 for you for the nice intro as well! Hopefully some day i will learn about VST plugins.
PS
sorry for the broken link, fixed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 11:41:53 GMT -5
Cyn, just a quick one.
Will i have any luck if i use directly USB connection to the boss me-25 and ardour (or audacity)? Just if you have done this .
PS
I agree, JACK was a pain to get started. Ardour seems pain as well... But maybe i am too lazy to study it.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 31, 2013 11:45:35 GMT -5
.vst...and especially vsti have come along way over the past decade. Some of the most convincing virtual instruments have been developed and when tied in to a MIDI instrument the possibilities are endless.
I know this is just a fairy tale in Linux, but if you ever have a weak moment just do a Google search of .vst and .vsti. You'll be reading for months.
Since you've already got Virtualbox, you might want to try a Windows VM just to play with them. Not sure how well they'll tie into a USB recording interface through the VM, but at least you'd get a glimpse of what the other side uses.
I guess the best analogy I can give you, from my experience, is that Linux options are like Ideal Bikes...Windows is like Toyota.
You can recompile .vst plugins for Linux, but the interface usually skews and trying to figure out the plugin options can be challenging...or they just fail completely after the recompile. Did Ardour ever resolve the .vst issue? Their website mentions this, but I haven't worked with it in about a year, so my current knowledge is limited.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 12:55:30 GMT -5
thanx, i'll have to look into those some time.
About the boss me-25 USB <-> Ardour connection? Will i have any luck or a better sound in your POV?
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Post by sumgai on Jan 31, 2013 22:22:11 GMT -5
Don't any of your audio proggies run under Wine?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2013 3:44:19 GMT -5
Don't any of your audio proggies run under Wine? I have windows as well, with wine i think the "real time" aspects might suffer, i don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2013 3:58:36 GMT -5
Update : i recorded straight through USB. Boss ME-25 was detected as a sound card. The results weren't much different. Thin sound, with no "volume", no thickness, no fatness. Even with the most aggressive Boss me-25 amp settings. What i have figured about Rakarrack and why i liked this sound better than than recording from me-25, and i am talking about the Metal Amp default setting, is because Rakarrack has this Convolotron, which is cabinet simulation. Hmmmm... Then i figured out that i was actually using me-25's LINE OUT output and *NOT* phones!! Maybe phones output has some "fatness/volume" already sorted out, since it is not aimed at amps but rather being used directly by headphones. And the sound ought to be fat to simulate the amp. Hmmm so. What i'll do next : a) try to use the me-25's line out via Rakarrack's Convolotron rakarrack.sourceforge.net/effects.html#Convolotron to see if i can get my favorite distorted sounds but with the needed fatness and volume b) try to just use the headphones output of ME-25 instead of line out. PS An observation. Audacity has many limitation and is far less stable than Ardour. Ardour seems so reliable! Cyn thanx man!!
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 1, 2013 3:58:49 GMT -5
From my experience, as Greek points out, the latency is a killer...almost like playing on a quart of Nyquil...
Greek has his work cut out for him. I hope he finds a fix, markets it and gets rich...and sends all of his friends here a free release...
HTC1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2013 4:04:37 GMT -5
Cyn, if you come to Greece, i can guarantee a coffee, a beer or two and a free tour in Acropolis museum, about releases and making any money out of smth where 10000s engineers better than me give away free software, i don't know
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 1, 2013 11:26:03 GMT -5
Don't tempt me...the last thing you guys need is for me to bring my financial crisis over to meet yours... But the idea of coffee and guitars in the Mediterranean sunshine makes me wish I still had stuff to hock...
HTC1
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 1, 2013 11:34:07 GMT -5
Heard good things about hydrogen, the drum machine : www.hydrogen-music.org/hcms/ . Haven't checked this out yet in action, but will do in due time. I checked out the link and found one major component missing. You can't import MIDI patterns into it. This means you'll be building every song hit by hit...about as much fun as watching meat defrost... On the plus side, it does give you a myriad of tweaking interfaces to make the final virtual kit do some pretty tricky things. HTC1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 16:01:57 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 3, 2013 23:17:02 GMT -5
Like you pointed out in your other link with the clips, the bass is going through the same rack effect the guitar did. And as you so accurately pointed out it sounds very sterile...and flat...
Even in the .vst world finding good virtual rack effects for bass are tough. The Ampeg amp simulator (.vst) is pretty good, but still nowhere close to a mic'd amp IMHO.
The guitar wasn't terribly assaulted by your rack effect. A little compressed, but for the style you're playing in it came out better than I would have expected.
Keep it up and keep posting. I'm not taking my Windows box to the landfill yet, but I'm listening.
HTC1
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Post by perfboardpatcher on Feb 20, 2013 14:13:42 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 12:32:23 GMT -5
always felt a old PC could easy be made in to a Guitar Amp with a built in Speak and using the EMU10K1 from Creative Labs it seems a of it is WASTED.. the sound card for one the COMPUTER itself.. i dont need any thing complex if you just running a AMP and EFFECT peds
adapted a keyboard with footpeds
But with LINUX its DRIVERS and getting someone to stream line it fully CUT out every thing bar the sound and effects i dont need fancy graphics card drivers BOG STANDARD
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Post by edvard on Jun 22, 2014 17:54:48 GMT -5
Hey all, first post, longtime Linux user, and I have some experience with the things discussed here. -Cynical1: Thank you for your honest assessment of Linux and audio recording, it's by no means as easy or immediately rewarding as it is in Windows, but I must say the uphill climb is not without it's gratifications. I am 100% Linux today and have been for about 8 years. The biggest deal-maker/breaker was not VST plugins or available software, but latency. No matter what I did, I could never get anything approaching usable latency in Windows, even with running ASIO drivers and stripping down the running background services to minimum. In Linux, a realtime kernel and Jack gave me ~5-8 ms latency straight away, even on this ancient single-core 2.4Ghz machine. I will ALWAYS say, however, use what works for you. Killer tracks are made by people, not operating systems. -Greekdude: Good on you for going down the penguin road. I've been waddling down it for some years now, maybe I can help... Regarding the "thin" guitar sound; This has less to do with your hardware or software than your methods. The Disturbed guitar sound you seek is likely the result of track doubling with various amps, mics, and microphone positions, not to mentions judicious EQ'ing of the final product at the mastering stage. I recommend reading a couple of articles, one by Joe Gore at Premier Guitar, where he talks about the effects of doubling tracks with various treatments to affect the soundstage and voicing of the final track. The music may not be to your liking (mine either...) but you can really hear the effects of what he's talking about: www.premierguitar.com/articles/20843-recording-guitarist-doubling-down-on-riffsThese too: www.guitarworld.com/killer-guitar-tracks-double-tracking-and-finding-your-own-tone-part-1www.guitarworld.com/killer-guitar-tracks-double-tracking-and-finding-your-own-tone-part-2 Also, I'd go for a more 'generic' guitar sound with the gain backed down a few notches first, rather than the "super-mid-scoop and saturation" sound that many dial in to approximate the "fat" sound. Once you start layering, it's going to turn to mud real quick without some raw string tone and upper mids to give it some definition. Then, EQ it back down at the mastering stage; you'll get fat in no time. Listen to Rage Against the Machine's first album and get a feel for how much distortion the guitarist is NOT using, and it sounds plenty fat. As for the bass tone on your SoundCloud clip, it could use a bit of a tone lift as well. If you really like that overdriven bass sound (I sure do), I'd recommend recording once with the bass sound raw, no effects (but some compression is always nice), and one track with the distortion and blend them to taste. Regarding software: I use Guitarix a lot (rakkarack was too noisy for some reason) and it has a very good convolver for simulating reverbs and classic amp tones, microphones even mic positioning and room ambience with the right impulses. Let me know what you have as far as impulses, I can give you a list of where to download some very good ones. Ardour is the most advanced of the DAW bunch, full-featured, and very usable. I've also used QTractor and Traverso. QTractor was very easy to use, flexible, and lightweight as well. Traverso had a learning curve regarding keyboard control, but some folks dig that sort of thing. The Harrison Mixbus (commercial DAW based on Ardour that runs on Windows) recently was on sale for 20 bucks. Total steal!! Couldn't resist it at that price, I just wish I was joined up here so I could tell folks about it. It'll probably go on sale at some future date, keep checking... I'm still working through the differences between it and normal Ardour. Hydrogen is a very nice drum machine, really the best of the bunch for Linux. Yes, it sucks that it can't import midi, but then again I've never been faced with the task of transferring beats over from another (likely Windows) drum software, so I've never felt that pain. Maybe try this? -> ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=800118 ... or this? -> wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/script_midi2hydrogenFor rock/metal drum sounds, I'd recommend either using the Ultra Acoustic Drums sample set, or layering one track made with a clean set (like Big Mono or Natural Studio 7) and one rendered with a trashy set (like Millo Drums or Tin Brooke) and blend to taste. Audacity is awesome; a swiss army knife of sound manipulation, but I've never used it as a multi-track DAW. The others are too good at doing that already. Maybe I'll try it sometime... -Angellahash: Done. See here: ampbrownie.com/and here: hackaday.com/2013/01/28/raspberry-pi-becomes-a-guitar-effects-processor/I know, long-winded for a first post, but these kinds of topics get my blood flowing...
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Post by newey on Jun 22, 2014 23:32:01 GMT -5
Edvard-
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
I don't have anything to add to your discussion of Linux recording, but I'm sure others will chime back in on this topic.
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jun 23, 2014 1:01:51 GMT -5
Thanks Newey! Always glad to help out and add to the discussion if it's something I'm actually knowledgeable in. I don't know everything (who does?) but I also will refrain from rambling on a subject I may be passingly familiar with, but basically clueless about. Promise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 8:43:09 GMT -5
Nice overview Edvard, Linux feels like the modern "windows", so i went FreeBSD just to be safe But no recordings as of yet Anyways, i had some pretty killer tone with the Rock Amp in Rakarack (Linux), i mean huge super fast soloing sound. But i could not replicate the old scooped metal rythm tone of metal amp. For some reason, every time i boot this linux machine (as a guitar amp), i get a different sound
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Post by edvard on Jun 29, 2014 3:10:45 GMT -5
Aw jeez, you BSD people... That is very strange indeed. Have you tried running a session manager when you play, like LADISH, Non, or Chino? QJackctl can store sessions too, just click the 'Session' button and go from there. I've never used a session manager before, but I have been considering it lately as it often happens that Jack turns on things in Alsa that either don't get turned back off and suddenly I'm left wondering why VLC isn't making any sound, or I get screeching feedback from Guitarix. Then I open up Alsamixer and spot the problem right away, which session management would eliminate having to do. Give it a shot, and I'll do the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 10:40:43 GMT -5
Yes that is the way i try to fast resolve problems... But what i meant was that a lot of upgrades happened in the meantime. Rakarack seems better than guitarix, never had a chance with guitarix, but i find both softwares unreliable and outdated. Their development is frozen. Its a pity.
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jun 29, 2014 23:45:03 GMT -5
Guitarix seems more updated than Rakarrack -
Last version on Guitarix sourceforge site: 4-17-2014 Last Git commit: 5 days ago; added switched tremolo plugin.
Last version on Rakarrack site: 11-08-2010 Last Git commit: 4-14-2013; Removed an accidentally committed file and patch the configure script.
What kind of reliability problems are you having? Outright crashes? Memory leaks? Glitches? I'm willing to help...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 1:46:20 GMT -5
Guitarix seems more updated than Rakarrack - Last version on Guitarix sourceforge site: 4-17-2014 Last Git commit: 5 days ago; added switched tremolo plugin. Last version on Rakarrack site: 11-08-2010 Last Git commit: 4-14-2013; Removed an accidentally committed file and patch the configure script. What kind of reliability problems are you having? Outright crashes? Memory leaks? Glitches? I'm willing to help... Like pressing e.g. a switch on Rakarack and then switching this off does not return to previous state. Also with guitarix, i dont find the UI intuitive, neither have i managed to get a super fat scooped metal tone for rythm, neither a nice midrangy tone for solos.
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jul 1, 2014 2:07:14 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, I remember that being a problem on Rakarrack for me as well. I remember being mystified by it, because the previous version didn't do that.
The only thing un-intuitive about Guitarix that I found is placing effects from the menu on the left into the "rack space". You have to drag it from the menu and drop it at the bottom edge of where you want it; a white line will show, and that's when you can drop it. Why it won't just drop into the empty space, I don't know.
Anyways, for a nice scooped tone, here's my recommendation: For the amp head itself (labeled "gx-2" in the rack) chose either the "pre 12ax7/ master 6V6", "12ax7", or "6DJ8" settings. Set Pregain and Drive 75-80% (or more, if you like), Clean/Dist set to 100%, Master gain to 0. Leave Bass Boost, Presence and Reverb off for now. For the tone, use "Amp Impulse" or "Tonestack" from the Tone Control menu item and place below the main amp component. Leave the tone controls alone for now. For the cabinet, use "Cabinet" from the Tone Control menu or "Convolver" from the Reverb menu. Now we can fine tune... I prefer the Mesa-Boogie presets for overall tone, so set Tonestack or Amp Impulse to the "Mesa-Boogie" preset, and if you use "Cabinet" select "HighGain" or "Mesa Boogie" and set "level" to 0-10%. 'HighGain' is VERY scooped, quite fat. If you use "Convolver" instead of "Cabinet", then your choices are much more broad, but it'll take a bit of searching to find what you like. First, set "Gain" to 0 and "Dry/Wet" to 100%. Click the "Setup" button. In the dialog there, look for the "File" button and look to the left at the 'Places' menu. See where it says "amps", "bands" and "IR"? Click on one of them and explore the sounds. You can use your mouse scroll wheel to quickly jump between sounds, just place your cursor on the drop-down where it lists the .wav files and scroll away. Looks like the Guitarix devs have an ear for metal, because all the IR files in "bands" are those of the metallic persuasion. From the "amps" section, I prefer "Krank Krankenstein" or "Peavey Vypyr 15" IRs.
For a midrangey solo tone, I like to angle for the "Marshall" tones. First off, set the head to the "6v6" preset. High gain and LOUD with minimal scoop, great for solos. If using Tonestack, set to one of the "JCM" presets, "JTM-45" or "Engl". If using Amp Impulse, set to "JCM 800", "JTM 45" or "Tube" (JTM 45 sounds the cleanest, in my opinion). If using "Cabinet", set to "Marshall". If using "Convolver", do the following: Search for the "God's Cab" set of IR files and download it. If you can't find it, I can send it to you. They were released as free by Signals Audio, but are no longer available from their site, so it's not illegal as far as I know. After downloading, unzip the file and point Convolver to the folder where you unzipped it. The top level folders will be organized by sample rate. Open "44.1" just to be safe. The next level of folders are labeled by microphone type. I go with "SM57" just to be safe. The next level is organized "NO-TS" and "TS". What does that mean? TS stands for Tube Screamer. By picking "TS" you will have IR files that were made with a Tube Screamer effect in the signal chain, which gives a slight bump to the midrange. Try all the microphone position IRs in there, there are TONS to choose from.
After you have the basic setup, go ahead and tweak the tone controls, set the levels, try different IR files (there are LOTS available on the Internets, it's easy to become overwhelmed) until you come up with something you can live with.
Hope this isn't too much to digest, but I've been using Guitarix for a while now, and there's SO much tonal variation that can be accomplished, it's easily overwhelming. Hopefully this will provide a shortcut to some basic useful sounds.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 7:24:27 GMT -5
thanx tons bro, i'll get back when i find the time (and mood) to play around with this. Good luck with your luthier adventures as well!
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