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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 6, 2013 21:54:09 GMT -5
Can you explain how the 56K stops a resistance from going above 1M? Is that because its in parallel with whatever load there is from the in side and the wiper which always makes it overall less than 1MEG? But then there is 1MEG to go in series afterwards at the volume pot? Or am I still a way from getting my guitar electronics diploma? Well, the V pot is kind of supposed to do that. Consider what would happen without that resistor, though. Leave the V pot all the way up, and turn the T pot halfway down. Now, independent of the high cut action, we've got a voltage divider composed of 500K on top and 1M on bottom. That's a noticeable broadband volume drop! The 56K changes the taper of the pot (what sg said) and keeps the interaction with the V pot a little more predictable.
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 7, 2013 4:32:19 GMT -5
Well, it seems as well as falling short in my guitar wiring diploma I'm also falling short in my forums etiquette. sumgai: The tone pot in the rhythm section is only 50kOhm, has no resistor and is wired to the pickup BEFORE the volume pot as in the lead circuit. So, you use the lead circuit down to about 50KOhm and then the rhythm ciruit below that? Is that why it was done? Full diagram coming up. ashcatlt: How is 56kOhm going to make any difference? If V is on max and I turn the tone half way down to 500kOhm its 1MOhm vs 306kOhm (instead of 250KOhm). Can't see how it will make a big difference. I, at least, still don't have it clear why the tone and volume pots are wired this way around while on all other guitars its the other way around. D
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Post by newey on Mar 7, 2013 7:11:44 GMT -5
It is odd to use all three lugs to wire the tone controls, as Ash pointed out. It is also different than what you have in your diagram, which was my point.
Johnh is right, it's time for some simulations to see what you're dealing with here. We can sim the Jag set up as well as your proposal, see if there's a real difference in output.
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 7, 2013 7:28:14 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
For clarification: I aim to use strangle switches on all my guitars (except a Dano). The diagram I posted was for a generic two pup gibson modern dependent wiring setup (I have three guitars like this, plus 4 single volume guitars and the Dano). I didn't intend to wire any of them how the Jag is (single volume or two volume), except perhaps of course the Jag. Simulations....yes, when I get time.
Danny
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Post by sumgai on Mar 7, 2013 14:17:04 GMT -5
Danny (and newey), The Jag uses that third pole to hold the 56KΩ resistor so that when it's engaged, meaning when the pot is turned down from 10, it becomes, in essence, about the same value at the 50KA pot in the Rhythm section. But if that's the case, it is a good good question why they didn't just do the same thing in both sections. Answer - listen to the tone while the Rhythm section is selected - it's dull. It doesn't stand out, which was the standard for rhythm players, back in the day. That dullness was accomplished very simply by loading the pickup with a, you guessed it, 50KΩ pot. Now, if we tried that trick over in the Lead department, it too would be dull sounding, on either pickup. Hence, a 1MΩ pot is used for 'unloading' purposes, but as soon as we want to tame the treble frequencies, we're back in the same ballpark as the Rhythm section, loading the pup with a low-value pot. Very close to a no-load pot found on Fender guitars of..... 50 years later. That's it in a nutshell. Oh, wait...... Notice that this was not done on the Jazzmaster. Essentially the same guitars, neck scale notwithstanding, but the Jag pickups are way too much brighter, the intention being that this guitar would be marketed to decidely non-jazz players. Hence the addition of that resistor, in an attempt to broaden the tonal pallete, in the idea that more variety would attract more buyers. Easy. sumgai
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 7, 2013 18:47:49 GMT -5
Interesting Sumgai.
I may be being dim but that doesnt explain why the pup goes first to the tone pot instead of the volume, does it?
D
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Post by sumgai on Mar 8, 2013 14:06:42 GMT -5
..... but that doesnt explain why the pup goes first to the tone pot instead of the volume, does it? No, not directly, but then, there never was an issue, was there? Consider - electrically speaking, the Vol and Tone pot inputs are coming from the same source, at the same time. If you were to hook up the Tone pot's input to the Vol pot's output, then you'd have an issue - the ever-changing Vol pot resistance would directly alter the Tone pot's affect on the signal... essentially yielding a two-control tone adjustment. (This was done by Gibson on early Les Pauls, and is often referred to as 'vintage wiring'. See John's discussion on that topic, here.) Now, we've been recently speaking to normal Tone controls, which affect the treble frequencies. But your topic was actually aimed at bass-cut controls. Have you gotten what you wanted/needed on that score, or are there further questions? (Didn't mean to derail here or anything. ) HTH sumgai
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Post by dannyhill on Apr 5, 2013 15:53:09 GMT -5
Hi again, For what its worth, on the Squier VM Jag with both vols on full, and rhythm tone on full the closest they match for the neck pickup is when the lead tone is between 2 and 3. ? sumgai - I'm good for bass cut I think. :-) Cheers, Danny
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