Some more HSH wiring questions.

[Adam]

I was wondering if it would be possible to have HSH with auto tap in positions 2 and 4, coil split and a coil selector switch which works in the auto tap as well as the coil split (choosing north or south coil in single coil mode or in positions 2 and 4). With "normal" humbuckers, the coil selection may not be necessary as the difference may be negligible, but what about with Lace Duallys where each coil can be different (eg. red/blue dually) and you might want to be able to choose which coil combines with the middle pickup in positions 2 and 4 at the flick of a switch. I'm just wondering if this wiring set up is possible at all as I am planning to install some Lace sensors and duallys in my guitars as I feel my seymour duncans aren't really doing it for me.

[ashcatlt]

In autosplit, I think we normally choose which coil gets split to be humcancelling with the middle pickup. If you choose the other coil, there will likely be a lot more noise.

That said, it can be done. How complicated it gets depends on exactly what you want.

How many switches do you want, and how independent do they need to be?

If we're using a standard 5-way switch for the pickup selection/autosplit, and all you want to do is select which coil of the HBs gets split off, you can do it with an SPDT switch. That will change both HBs at the same time, though, so that if you're using the "top coil" of the neck, it will also be the "top coil" of the bridge.

If you also want to be able to split the HBs in postions 1 and 5, then you need a 3PDT switch for the coil selection as well as an SPDT split switch for each HB (or a DPDT to split both at once), and you're still splitting to like coils.

If you actually want individual control of which coil from each pickup gets split, you will need to replace the 5-way with something with more poles. A 4P5T Superswitch should do it, but I haven't worked that out. Seems like this scheme must exist somewhere...

[Adam]

Jul 25, 2013 13:36:27 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

In autosplit, I think we normally choose which coil gets split to be humcancelling with the middle pickup. If you choose the other coil, there will likely be a lot more noise.

I plan on using lace pickups and from what I've heard, noise isn't a problem with those. Even with their strat SSS sets, the middle pickup isn't RWRP, so you could assume that the pickups would be quiet regardless and the tonal differences that having a RWRP middle pickup makes seems to be negligible.

My guitar currently has this configuration:

As you can see, the autotap combines the outer coils of each humbucker with the middle as I accidentely forgot to buy a RWRP middle. I am using Seymour Duncans in this chart, but plan on using Lace pickups later on, so which ever coil used in autotap won't make too much noise regardless.

I would like to use two sliding switches for each humbucker to coil select (one switch for neck, one for bridge). As you can see from the chart, the volume push/pull is already used to split both humbuckers. I would like the coil select switches to work in a way that I can choose which coil is active when the humbucker is split or in positions 2/4 or in which ever position a split humbucker is used. As far as materials and resources are concerned, they are not much of a worry as I could easily obtain them, it's just the know how which I don't have.

Once again, thank you for any help.

[ashcatlt]

Jul 25, 2013 18:41:22 GMT -5 Adam said:

I would like to use two sliding switches for each humbucker to coil select (one switch for neck, one for bridge).

Which is it? Two for each, or one for neck and one for bridge (two total) or WTFnF,O?

Not to be "that guy", but this is the second time today I've had to clarify this "two for each" question...

Do you have an actual schematic for what's in there now? Or can you carefully trace it out and show us how it's wired?

[Adam]

Sorry, two switches in total as in one for bridge and one for neck.
Sorry about that.

[ashcatlt]

Yeah, I figured, but I'd hate to make an butt out of you and me.

So, how 'bout that schematic? What sort of 5-way is in there? Is it a standard strat-style (would have either 7 or 8 lugs), or an actual 5-way (would have 12 or more lugs).

I'm afraid that my usefulness in actually working out the scheme for this is about run out, but hopefully I'm helping to clarify the issue well enough that somebody can either point to a scheme that already does what you want, or can help you nail it down further. I am pretty sure that you're going to need a Superswitch, though...

[Adam]

It is a standard strat 5 way switch. I aware of the possibility of having to use a superswitch, which is why I have one sitting in a box somewhere.

[haydukej]

Trying to have myself a brain fart on your project. Just so I understand and to maybe help someone more schematically inclined.

This is what your current setup is capable of.


And this is what you want more or less. 


In this second picture, I'm curious to what function(s) the push/pulls on the Ctrl-x and tone are doing. Ctrl-x almost seems like a "neck HB" on switch and the tone seems like a "bridge HB" on switch. I probably shouldn't be looking at these forums and commenting so early in the day.

If I've misunderstood your post and you already have all the options available in both photos, then I would be tempted to say that adding a coil split is not going to add any significantly new tones to the pallet you already have, but who am I to shy you away from a "dream setup." I've recently looked through a lot of the available HSH wiring options, and at the moment I can't recall of any 1 complete wiring diagram that would give you exactly what you are wanting.

I'm sure someone with more mojo will be along soon to help you out. Good luck. 

[JohnH]

Im picturing the current controls as 5 way, bridge-on, neck-on and coil split? And the coil split is always to one given coil of each humbucker, and you want to be able to change that so you can choose which is cut to, by adding two more switches.

All possible, but is it a good idea?

First thing, it will indeed need that superswitch. the reason is, that currently the auto-coil splits will be being done by half of your standard five way switch, shunting the central coil-to-coil humbucker connections to ground in position 2 and 4. This is probably being done with the 3 lug to ground and the 1 and 5 lugs to the coil connections, so that they are grounded when the switch is in 2 and 4 position, which bridges 1 or 5 to 3. Its neat, but to allow swapping of which coil is cut, something needs to shunt those humbucker conections to hot instead of ground, and theres nothing left on the five way to do it. So Superswitch is needed.

So, based on that, you are up for a complete rewiring job. So given that amount of work, it may be a good idea to step back and look at what you will have, and consider what else you might prefer.

If you go ahead as I think you are describing, you will have 5 two position switches and a five way. Thats 2x2x2x2x2x5 = 160 switch positions! Out of that, each humbucker can do three things or be off, and the middle can be on or off, so 4x4x2-1 = 31 sounds. The minus 1 is for all off, which is not offered.

So there's a great deal of switching redundancy, which in my case would lead to numerous WTF moments if I was after a certain tone. Also, quite a number of the sounds will be pretty much the same. eg, When Ive tried it on two different guitars, I have not found a worthhile difference between the individual sound of two coils of a neck humbucker, and only a small difference at the bridge.

But of course, you may be very clear on what you want based on your experience with this guitar, in which case ignore most of that. And you can do what you describe as noted, its all possible.

But starting from sratch, the simplest way to get all the tones you are after would be to ditch the three current switches, keep the standard five way, lose the autosplit, and use two on/off/on toggles to control each humbucker (one each so Ash is clear!), coil1, humbucker, coil2.

Beyond that, there is a huge range of possibilities with HSH, with series wiring and phasing etc, particularly with a superswitch involved.

John

[Adam]

But it can be done right? I remember the last time I asked for a wiring similar using my Seymour Duncans, I was dissuaded as I was told there would be a negligible difference, which was fair enough as those humbuckers used the same coils for each side. This time, I plan on using Lace Sensor Duallys, which have mismatched coils, which should make a difference. It would just be like having 5 different Lace Sensor single coils in my guitar, with 4 different ones making up the two humbuckers. Right now, my mind is set on that kind of wiring as it seems like it would work out really well.

[JohnH]

Yes definately can be done. If you are happy to put in the superswitch you can get it how you want. And if you prefer to stick with the standard switch, it could happen if you for-go the autosplit and control splits just with the push/pull.

[Adam]

I'd be happy to go with the superswitch if it can get what I want done. Sorry if I sound like I'm being over demanding or pushy.