oger
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Post by oger on Dec 4, 2013 0:36:53 GMT -5
Hey guys so I'm new here but I notice that a lot of you guys seem really knowledgeable on wiring schematics and I was wondering if any of you would be willing to help me out. So my poppa and I are currently building a custom guitar from scratch (basically a 3 pickup fender jaguar with some other small modifications, but with the classic control plates and everything still) and are nearing the final stages of the assembly. My problem with this is ideally I'd love to be able to run the guitar in both series and parallel but was unsure of how to go about doing this. I was planning on using the 3 switch selectors as on and off switches for each pickup and am open to any suggestions or ideas. Just wanted to make this a fun and versatile guitar :] Thanks in advance!
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Post by newey on Dec 4, 2013 5:59:08 GMT -5
oger- I'll omit my usual greeting here since I already greeted you via PM. A 3-pickup Jag sounds like an interesting project. It sounds like you are wanting to keep the stock Jag switching, at least as far as outward appearances go? Running 3 single-coil pickups in either series or parallel via slide switches (as on a jag) is a puzzle we have discussed in connection with the brian May switching. On BM guitars, contrary to most, there is only series available, so the discussion was how to add parallel. The BM scheme also has individual phase switches for each pickup, but these can be omitted. Here's a diagram, courtesy of JohnH: Brian May Series/Parallel switchingNow, first off, this requires different slide switches than on a stock Jag- these are DPDT switches, which will be physically larger than the switches on a stock Jag. They are also 3-position slide switches, being On-On-On switches. So, you'd need to triple-check for fitment onto the stock Jag control plate. Second, in a stock Jag, you also have the extra V and T "wheels", with a separate switch to select the controls. Ordinarily, these are "tied into" the pickup switching. The wiring for these will also have to change. Finally, the series/parallel switching requires an extra 4-pole switch. Theoretically, the switch on the upper bout than normally selects V and T controls could be "repurposed" to do this. However, this will mean no switch for the V and T wheels, and also requires a lot of wiring from the lower bout to the upper, since the series/parallel switch would be located far away from the pickup switches. Basically, what you want to do can be done, but it will be difficult to do so while maintaining a stock Jaguar "look". I'll write more later, off to work now . . .
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Post by JohnH on Dec 4, 2013 6:22:22 GMT -5
Yes that scheme could be the basis of what you seek. You can omit the three phase switches if you don't need them, and actually, the main slide switches that do on/off are only two position standard switches. You need a four pole toggles switch to do series/parallel selection.
cheers John
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Post by newey on Dec 4, 2013 10:35:33 GMT -5
Yeah John's right, I misspoke on the slide switches. They are just 2-position.
The 4-pole switch for the series/parallel will probably present some fitment issues, as it is basically the size of two DPDT switches together. Of course, if you are custom-building (and assuming you haven't moved past the routing stage already), then you could make that cavity a bit bigger to accommodate the bigger switch.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 4, 2013 12:34:08 GMT -5
oger, Welcome to The Nutzhouse, for which this project certainly qualifies you as a budding Nut! There are three ways you can do this, and remain fairly stealthy: 1) Pick a single pup to be placed in series with the one of the other two. This simplifies the 4Pole switch down to needing only 2 poles. Also, keep in mind that unless you have really shrill pickups, then putting all three in series will just about guarantee a muddy tone... do try to restrain yourself to just two in series. For most players that's most often the B and N. But certainly you can opt to put the M in series with either of the other two, if that turns your crank. You may need to experiment a bit here, but fortunately your open control panel allows this to be easy. 1a) Further to above, that simpler switch (DPDT instead of 4PDT) can now be an additional slide switch. Consider routing the cavity for 4 switches, not just three... and go find a switch plate for an old Fender Bass VI - these had three pups ala the Stratocaster, but with 4 switches the bass could emulate the Jaguar's "strangle" switching option. That means you don't have to add anything else to enable a single pup series option, though it does alter the final appearance a bit (albeit with stock Fender parts). 2) If you truly do insist on all three pups being available for any series combo, then consider substituting a Stratocaster's S1 switch in the Volume position. That gives you the 4PDT switch exactly as shown in John's diagram, linked above by newey. (Again, it alters the appearance a bit, but still with stock Fender parts.) 3) Go active. By that I mean a digital switching scheme, presumably activated by a stealthy switch, or if you're not interested in keeping the functionality of the Rhythm controls, that switch could do the job. By using digital circuitry underneath the hood, you can easily maintain a totally stock appearance and still get beaucoup Tone options. But you'll need to consider where to put the battery..... HTH sumgai
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oger
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Post by oger on Dec 4, 2013 13:37:10 GMT -5
Oh man, thank you guys so much. I wasnt expecting to hear back so soon! haha
*newey yes I was hoping to keep the general outward appearance of a stock jag as much as possible but if I do have to end up adding an additional 4dpdt switch somewhere on the pickguard it wouldnt really bother me. Regarding the upper T and V switches I was thinking about just making the upper control plate its own separate entity similar to the bottom one so that the only difference between the top and bottom T and V would be the pot values, is that what you meant when you said they would have to change?
*sumgai I never even thought about using a Fender s1 switch though! Would that take care of both the series/parallel wiring as well as keep my lower volume knob functional? .... Although now that I think about it that would only allow the bottom T and V to switch between series and parallel huh. If I were to just add a 4dpdt switch somewhere else on the pickguard would that allow both to switch between series and parallel? If so, how would I wire that to the rhythm/lead switch on the upper control plate?
Thanks so much again guys, I really appreciate all of your help!
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Post by sumgai on Dec 4, 2013 22:47:46 GMT -5
I never even thought about using a Fender s1 switch though! Would that take care of both the series/parallel wiring as well as keep my lower volume knob functional? Yes, definitely.... this is exactly what Fender does on the Strat, the Tele and their two Big-Boy basses, switching option and Volume on one control. Not necessarily true. Again, it all depends on what you hope to accomplish, not in what switches you have on hand, or have to install. Let's take a step back for a moment.... The intended function of the Rhythm switch and circuit is to allow the Neck pickup to be "preset" to a given volume and tone, the switch then allowing you to select that for your output, or the more-or-less standard switching (the three slide switches) and the lower controls for the output. That's easy to understand so far, right? So the question becomes, are you now intending to eliminate that preset-ability, and instead have the slide switchs work in both positions of that "former" Rhythm selector? If so, that's cool, it's yer rig, I just wanna understand your intentions, tha's all. When it's all said and done, you will wire all three pups to their respective three slide switches for on/off selection, then the output from that goes to whatever kind of series/parallel switching you install, and then the results of that goes to the "former" Rhythm selector. From there, the output will go to one of the two sets of Volume/Tone controls, giving you a different kind of preset-ability, to be sure. And then it all hits the output jack and onward to the amp (or stompboxes, etc.). The major gotcha.... Jaguars typically use a black un-numbered knob, with only a strike line for position identification. To get as close to that as possible, you'll need to locate a knob set for a Jazz Bass, as they've almost always used the same knob configuration as the Jag. Otherwise, you're looking at a Strat-style setup, or a knurled chrome setup ala the Tele or the P-Bass. Not that those aren't classy, but they are a clue that something's been modified. One more thing, we've all forgotten to mention.... Take pictures of your build as it's happening and post 'em in The Gallery sub-forum! Capture sound clips after it's all said and done, and post 'em in the Sound Samples sub-forum. There, that's about it for now. HTH! sumgai
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oger
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Post by oger on Dec 5, 2013 0:27:12 GMT -5
Ok I think I'm tracking with everything, to be honest I was hoping to actually eliminate the preset ability and just use the former "rhythm" selector as a different circuit with different pot values to further enhance the clarity/muddiness of the sound. If I were to do that, what would the "rhythm" selector dpdt look like? I feel I can pretty accurately conceptualize the majority of the schematic but the one thing that is still messing me up is which posts should be used to connect series/parallel switch to the "rhythm" selector and which ones should be used for the 2 sets of T and V controls. Thanks for walking me through this by the way, I really appreciate it. And definitely will do! It might still be awhile before I get the sound samples however, were just finishing the routing phase now lol
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oger
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Post by oger on Dec 31, 2013 19:23:25 GMT -5
Ok guys so I've been slowly piecing the guitar together and ended up adding a 4pdt mini toggle on the lower control plate and am drawing near the finish. As for the final stages of the wiring process I found another schematic online and was curious whether or not this would work for me as well. My only concern is I am still unsure of how to connect this 4pdt switch to the dpdt on the upper control plate (former rhythm selector). If you guys could walk me through this last step it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance oger
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Post by newey on Dec 31, 2013 21:11:52 GMT -5
oger, you said:
Is this still what you want to accomplish? The diagram you have, and then to the former "rhythm selector", which will now just select between two different sets of V and T controls?
If that's what you're after, then the "rhythm switch" would select between one set of controls, or the other when switched. Both sets of controls then go independently to the output. It's sort of like a "Y".
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Post by sumgai on Dec 31, 2013 23:54:29 GMT -5
oger,
There's an even bigger problem with that schematic posted above.... if you switch to Series mode, and if you have one or more pups unselected, then the only output from your axe is gonna be acoustic!
If you'll re-visit the Brian May thread, and the attendent schematic, you'll note first off that there's only one jumper on the Series side of the S/P switch. Then you'll note that only two of the three pup's hot leads go over to that same switch (one lead for Neck, both leads for Middle). The reason this works is because the "off" positions of the upper switches shunt around the pickup instead of just removing the lead(s) from any other circuitry... without such, there'd be no way to obtain any series combinations.
I have to say, somehow I was under the impression that you were trying to keep as close to stock in appearance as you could. According to the schematic above, the 3-position (on/off/on) switches are standard toggle-types, and not slide switches. I'm curious to know what your current thinking is on this particular facet.....
Also, what newey says about selecting an output "channel" is correct insofar as it goes. It's really a "double Y" - one pole of the DPDT switch (formerly called the Rhythem Selector switch) will control where the output from the S/P switch goes (whichever set of V/T controls). The other pole will select which set of V/T controls actually feeds into the output jack. Without this "double" control setup, you'd find that no matter which way the switch was set, both controls would actually have an effect on the final output.
HTH
sumgai
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oger
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Post by oger on Jan 1, 2014 19:58:41 GMT -5
*newey Yeah you got it, thats exactly what I was hoping to do in terms of the different T/V controls!
*sumgai Ohhoo thanks for catching that, that woulda been a major bummer.
That makes sense though with the jumper, thanks for explaining that, that helps a lot. Where would the 3rd pickups' hot lead go to though seeing as I wont have the phase switches in my guitar. Does there happen to be any schematic out there which omits the phase switches? To be honest they are really confusing me, I've never worked on a schematic this hairy lol also regarding the "Y" concept that newey mentioned, I'm not entirely sure how to apply this ..... Thanks so much for walking me through this though guys, I really appreciate your help and patience.
And no I'm sorry I found this schematic online, its not actually mine but I will be using the classic jaguar dpdt slide switches, not the toggles drawn in the schematic. The guitar my poppa and I are building will be slightly different than a classic jag in appearance but I wanted to keep the switches as close to a jag as possible and stole the jaguar pickguard cuz I've always thought the jag pickguard was pretty sexy. The only difference will be the 4pdt mini toggle (we drilled a hole in the lower control plate to mount it).
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Post by newey on Jan 1, 2014 23:17:19 GMT -5
oger- Here's a module for the dual V and T controls. As sumgai said, a "double Y" is a better description. On the DPDT switch, one pole selects which pair of V and t controls are active, and the second pole switches the output accordingly. This should be OK, but as always, let's have someone vet this. If it flies, I'll repost it in the modules section, as it seems a nifty way to have two preset output tones/levels. You can sort of "dial in" a solo setting, for example. Now, oger, this entire wiring scheme will be a series of modules. This is one such. Perhaps you can assemble a complete diagram from the various pieces, which we will then double-check? You'll understand the wiring a lot better if you draw it out yourself.
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oger
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Post by oger on Jan 2, 2014 17:07:49 GMT -5
Wow thanks newey this helps a ton. And will do, I have been constructing a wiring schematic on my own and will post it as soon as possible. I hope its legible ... I dont know how to draw it out on a computer like you guys do so mine is gonna be written by hand.
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oger
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Post by oger on Jan 2, 2014 22:23:40 GMT -5
Whew, ok guys so here is the wiring schematic that I've been working on for awhile now. Sorry if its not legible, I wasnt sure how to do it other than by hand. I think its pretty complete but I am still not sure of how to wire the 4pdt switch with the absence of phase switches ..... Does it look good so far? (p.s. we named Francine as in the female version of Frank or Frankenstein) Francine Wiring Schematic.pdf (243.71 KB)
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Post by sumgai on Jan 3, 2014 1:44:56 GMT -5
oger, I see a problem here.... you said "... absence of phase switches", yet your drawing shows all three pickup slide switches to be wired as, guess what... phase switches. You've copied the 4-pole S/P switch from the other diagram, now you need only grab the upper switches (the selectors that also shunt the pups for series mode), and leave out the phase switches, the lower ones on the drawing. OR......Actually, there is a "better way" out there, as you asked for originally, here's the link: www.1728.org/guitar2a.htm That site belongs to a fellow member and longtime contributor NUT, wolf. But let me purloin the drawing in question and post it right here for you: On wolf's site, there is a second diagram just below that (about half-way down the page) that has Volume and Tone controls attached. Ignore those in favor of what newey posted above, using the former "Rhythm" switch as a preset selector. In wolf's diagram it's essentially the same thing as the Brian May version, but he's drawn it more 'symmetrical' - I think it's easier to follow and to decipher the logic behind it. I've also vetted it, and if you build it like he suggests, it will work just like it says on the tin. Any questions? HTH sumgai
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