Superswitch as Series/Parallel/Coil/Off Switch

[electric]

So after my stint of using my 5-way as a volume switch , I've found I don't even use it enough, and seeing as I have a superswitch in there only using one of its poles I'd like to diversify my tonal options.

I based my designs off the series/cut/parallel on/on/on switch at the 1728 site:



So far, this is what I've got (Dimarzio colors):



And then double this on the other two poles for the other humbucker.

I'm pretty sure positions 1-4 are correct, but I'm not sure about 5. Can I just leave them disconnected like that? Or will I suffer pops etc? I don't see a way to connect ground straight to output in a way I can switch to.

Thanks for any help or tips!

[JohnH]

Hello and welcome to GN 2.

I think it works, but the off position is open circuit with a coil hanging. So id ssy sometimes there may be some buzz induced.

How do you work this in combos with the othet pivkup?

[newey]

electric-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

JohnH's right about position 5. You also have Coil 1 hanging from the hot side at position 3, where Coil 2 is active. Again, this may or may not make any real-world difference as far as noise is concerned, but it raises the potential for some.

Also, since both pickups are to be wired the same, position 5 will be "all off". Are you sure this is how you want it?

You may also consider that, at the bridge, you may hear a difference between coil 1 and coil 2, but there's unlikely to be an audible difference between the two coils at the neck, assuming these are the standard type of HBs with 2 roughly identical coils.

I also suggest that you consider wiring it so that, at positions 2 and 3, you get opposite coils between the bridge and neck pickups at those positions. IOW, at position 2, you'll want coil 1 of the bridge pickup and coil 2 of the neck, and vice versa at position 3. In this way, both combinations will be hum-cancelling when in combo.

Is there other pickup switching in play here, so that you can have neck and/or bridge pups by itself?

[electric]

Thank you for the welcome!! Good to know about the coil sound differences. I have a blend pot for the two pickups after they go through the switch separately, so thats covered. I just need a solid off switch (I don't use a volume knob).

Also I was already considering switching the orientation for hum canceling. Thanks for the tip!

Would a high resistor maybe work? like 1 meg across the two lugs at 5? perhaps that would connect them in series but not allow significant sound? 

[ashcatlt]

I can't see Tumbler from work, so I don't know for sure what you're trying to do, but I wonder if this helps...

4-way wiring

sg "fixes" the hanging from hot issues of the standard Baja 4-way scheme. You can do this twice on a Superswitch. For the position 5, if you really want the whole guitar to go dead, then your best bet is to find a way to short the tip and sleeve of the jack itself. That might take some kerthunkin, which I'm also really not up to here at work. Now that I think about it, though, I've used this scheme a number of times in a number of situations, but I don't think I ever found a way to get that dead short position working. I always ended up shorting the individual coils, but leaving the actual output open...

Hope this helps somehow, but I'm kinda shooting blind.

[electric]

Oh my that may actually help a lot!

If I just connect both leads of Coil 1 to the Output, then the coil won't act as an antenna to attract noise! And for good measure I did the same on Coil 2 and connected both to ground. Let me know if anybody sees any problems with this circuit.



Here is the schematic for position 5. This is irregular but I think it may work:

[ashcatlt]

Yep, that's pretty much where I always ended up! Having the coils shorted like that seems to help, but it still leaves the cable itself open, so it will be as noisy as an unplugged cable. That is, the amount of noise when the guitar is off will be unpredictable and completely dependent on the electromagnetic environment in which it finds itself. Any time I've implemented this scheme I've had other ways to kill the guitar when I actually wanted silence. I've moved away from it lately for this reason, and because it messes up certain things in system-series wirings.

[electric]

What do you mean "System-series wirings"? 

[ashcatlt]

Apr 10, 2014 20:56:12 GMT -5 electric said:

What do you mean "System-series wirings"? 

When two or more separate pickups are in series - also called "inter-pickup" series. That's as opposed to the "local" or "intra-pickup" series/parallel thing that you're doing here.

If you kill one of the pickups this way (by shorting the individual coils to themselves, but not to each other), and try to put another pickup in series with this structure, it won't work, because there isn't actually a connection through the switch. That creates the sort of "gotcha" dead spot that we try to avoid around these parts. I don't think it actually applies to your situation.

[geo]

Why not wire pos 5 for in-series and out-of-phase, and just turn the volume down to kill the sound? Same result, no?

[newey]

electric said earlier he doesn't use a volume control; he has a blend between the pickups to get one or the other.

[electric]

Why not wire pos 5 for in-series and out-of-phase, and just turn the volume down to kill the sound? Same result, no?

No because I don't have a volume control on the guitar. I've replaced it with a blend control. I use a volume pedal and would like an off option on-board.

When two or more separate pickups are in series - also called "inter-pickup" series. That's as opposed to the "local" or "intra-pickup" series/parallel thing that you're doing here.

Thats good to know. Yeah its not a problem as you say. I'm considering what effect a resistor in series with both pickups like the jumper on position 4 would do to reduce sound while connecting the circuit. Perhaps 1meg? There isn't much info online regarding this so I'm going to test it in a week when some parts come in the mail. Any experience with this?

[ashcatlt]

Apr 11, 2014 5:56:40 GMT -5 electric said:

I'm considering what effect a resistor in series with both pickups like the jumper on position 4 would do to reduce sound while connecting the circuit. Perhaps 1meg? There isn't much info online regarding this so I'm going to test it in a week when some parts come in the mail. Any experience with this?

I'm not completely sure what you're talking about here, but I don't think it's going to work the way you expect. In fact, I'm confident that you will not be able to get any appreciable help with the noise without compromising tone somewhere along the line. Draw it up and we'll look at it.

[electric]

Like this, so that in the 5th position it connects the coil in series but has enough resistance to possibly minimize the volume, but its only in the circuit in that position. 

[JohnH]

I think there might be another way to wire the superswitch, with one common to the hot end of the lower coil, and one common to ground. that way there would be a way of getting a properly quiet, shorted out kill switch 'off' position

[JohnH]

like this:

[sumgai]

John,

Fairly nice one.

The only problem here is, in Pos 3 (coil 2 selected), coil 1 will be hanging from hot. Whereas electric's effort (in Reply #5) can be cured simply by adding of a jumper wire between the left-side terminal #3 and the right-side terminal #1, your's can't - that would make Pos 3 just be a repeat of Pos 5.

Even so, I have to wonder; would the amount of noise this hanging hot might contribute to the output signal in Pos 3 be greater than that found in Pos 5 of electric's diagram? Granted, the tonal output of coil 2 will swamp or overwhelm any noise while playing, but during an intentional silence (strings aren't vibrating), said noise may be noticible, especially if Mr. Murphy has put in his usual unannounced appearance.

I think this would be a good case for testing each schema before the final lash-up.


...........


Now, as to our newfound Nut:

electric, to the NutzHouse!


I do have a question for you: You have said a couple of times "superswitch", "blender instead of Vol pot" and "both pickups". From this, I take it that you're using a blending scheme that works only in parallel between the two pickups, yes? I'd just like to "suggest" that you might want to get a bit more Nutzy, and consider the tonal possibilities of using your pickups in series as well. They can still be blended, consult any one of several of John's contributions to found in either/both the General Guitar Schematics and Truly Nutzoid Schemes sub-Forums.

If you have any questions, just blast 'em in John's direction, I'm sure that he'll be happy to enlarge your Nutz-ness much more than you ever anticipated!






sumgai

[JohnH]

Im all in favour of avoiding hanging from hot where possible, but its not really so big an issue. There are a number of popular and succssful wirings that depend on it, including the 4 way Tele Baha switch, and the Mike Richardson scheme. Im also unconvincef that
shorting out a hanging coil actually makes it better. It didnt help when I tried it, but I only tried it once and there wasnt much noise anywsy. Has anyone done an A/B test?

But i think an open-circuit off position will be noisier than having an active setting with a hanging coil, which at least has a coil to ground to earth some static if needed.

[electric]

Thanks John! Wow that looks like it will work great! I'm not too worried about hanging coils as long as they don't create problems in the kill position. I'll try an A/B test in case when I'm wiring it up regarding a single coil with a hanging one next to it to check, but it looks like you solved my problem!

And sumgai, yeah I do have them on a blend pot in parallel. I'll make sure to check out those resources. Thanks! And once I'm done I'll make sure to upload a full schematic/diagram here, because so far its this superswitch + a blend pot (possibly series/parallel switching now that you suggest it) + a modified TBX control from here, so it will be a pretty elaborate setup without any change in outwards appearance once I'm done and others will hopefully benefit from it. 

I always liked the idea of super seven switching since I started guitar projects a couple years ago but didn't want to deal with filling and redrilling my guitars so I guess I've been trying to get the most adaptable control setup since. Also makes for a complex task haha

[JohnH]

Good luck - One thing you might want to think about, when you extend the diagram to use the other two poles and cover the other pickup, is to swap the coil positions so that your coil1 pair includes a north and a south pole, and so does your coil2 pair. This should offer maximum hum cancelling between blended pickups in the single coil settings.

Assuming both pickups have identical wire colours and magnetic polarities, you would swap red with white and swap green with black (DiMarzio colours), for the second pickup. This should not affect the series or parallel modes. If you do this, the only setting with any hot-hanging issue is still the coil2 setting, and not the coil 1 setting.

So, you can do two things:
if you get any issue with excess buzz in coil2 mode, you have clean coil1 mode to fall back on, though I expect both will be quite good and both will be hum cancelling, ie get rid of the largest source of noise.
Second, if you do this, please tell us if there is any difference in noise between coil 1 and coil2 mode, in the interest of science, because it would really help!

cheers
J