navin
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Post by navin on Sept 30, 2014 2:15:31 GMT -5
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Post by JohnH on Sept 30, 2014 3:10:35 GMT -5
Hi navin, that's a good idea, and it would probably work. But I find it quite difficult to understand exactly what those freeway switches do. Its as clear as this!
Two circuits 'A' & 'B' have commons 'CA' and 'CB' each connecting to: B1,B2,M1,M2,N1,N2 in varying switch positions. (sometimes in combination) ELECTRICAL FUNCTION A & B side switching differs: 'A' combines B1+B2/N1+N2 'B' isolates B1+B2/N1+N2. 'GD' is 'ground' or 'earth'.
so that's all fine then.....
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Post by newey on Sept 30, 2014 5:30:12 GMT -5
John's description is for the regular "Freeway Switch", but there is also now the "Freeway Switch Ultra" which has more options but which is also easier to follow logically. The "Ultra" is essentially a 2P6T switch. Unlike the regular model, both sides are identical- each commons connects to 1-6 in sequence. However, each commons connects to 2 separate lugs (which are actually wiring pads, not lugs)on each half of the switch. A regular 2P6T switch would have 12 lugs plus the 2 commons, for 14 total; the Freeway Ultra has 24 lugs plus 2 commons, for a total of 26.
You can think of it as a 2P6T rotary switch with a joystick controller instead of a knob.
However, (as I understand it) there is one fly in the ointment as far as simplicity is concerned. There aren't just 26 wiring pads or lugs, there are 28. On the Ultra model, all switching up or down on one pole, i.e., from positions 1-2-3 or 4-5-6 are "make before break" connections, like we're used to using on other guitar switches. But switching across the switch, from 1-4, 2-5, 3-6 are "break before make" connections and there are 2 additional lugs (labeled TA and TB) that are connected to the respective commons during the "break", before the next connection is made.
The regular Freeway model also features these 2 extra lugs, but it has the "break before make" switching only between positions 2-5.
(one question I was unable to figure out was whether the regular switch allows one to go directly from, say, 1-4 or from 3-6 without first switching to the center position (i.e., 2-5) before moving across. If one cannot do so, then having the "Break" only between 2-5 makes more sense).
I have no idea why they do this, unless it is to facilitate use of the switch for going between an active source and a passive source; the 2 extra wiring pads in the "Break" transition could then presumably serve to wire in a capacitor to minimize the "pop" when switching between the 2 poles of the switch, from passive to active and vice versa.
Now, on to navin:
First, Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
I think the Ultra model would probably work for what you want; not sure about the regular version. We really need someone to do a color-coded diagram of the regular switch so as to be able to make sense of that one- it's confusing to describe its operation verbally.
To really be sure it will do what you require, someone will have to do up a diagram. Do you need help with a diagram to do this? It will be much quicker if you can draw something up yourself that we can then examine.
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Post by haydukej on Sept 30, 2014 11:18:51 GMT -5
I think Navin found his special purpose...
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 1, 2014 3:47:47 GMT -5
Hi navin, that's a good idea, and it would probably work. But I find it quite difficult to understand exactly what those freeway switches do. Its as clear as this! Two circuits 'A' & 'B' have commons 'CA' and 'CB' each connecting to: B1,B2,M1,M2,N1,N2 in varying switch positions. (sometimes in combination) ELECTRICAL FUNCTION A & B side switching differs: 'A' combines B1+B2/N1+N2 'B' isolates B1+B2/N1+N2. 'GD' is 'ground' or 'earth'. so that's all fine then..... Thank you John.
Where I am still confused is that the Acousti-Phonic preamp requires that the output of the magnetic pickups are connected to it. While if you look at page 6 (of 13 pages) in the freeway diagrams PDF file I linked to earlier, the freeway switch prefers the output of mag pickups AND that of piezo module be connected to it.
We cannot put any switch (such as the Freeway) between the stereo jack and the acoustic phonic preamp as it will rob us of the auto switch function when we insert a stereo cable (vs a mono cable). The Acoustic Phono preamp module has some intelligence that sends a combined signal if a mono cable is used and send separate mag and piezo signals if a stereo cable is used. This is useful for us (this is my son's guitar - I can't play as well as him).
Hence somehow the MAG output from the freeway needs to go the Mag input on the preamp. The quick-switch connections on the preamp then need to be connected to the free way such that the free way acts as a 3 pole 1 way switch and the stereo output jack then be connected to ONLY the preamp to retain the intelligence of the preamp.
One possible solution is to just ignore the quick-switch terminals on the preamp and connect the piezo as shown in page 6 of the wiring scheme (mentioned above). The piezo module and the freeway are then both connected to the ring/sleeve of the output jack.
John's description is for the regular "Freeway Switch", but there is also now the "Freeway Switch Ultra" which has more options but which is also easier to follow logically. The "Ultra" is essentially a 2P6T switch....You can think of it as a 2P6T rotary switch with a joystick controller instead of a knob. However, (as I understand it) there is one fly in the ointment as far as simplicity is concerned...The regular Freeway model also features these 2 extra lugs, but it has the "break before make" switching only between positions 2-5...I have no idea why they do this, unless it is to facilitate use of the switch for going between an active source and a passive source; the 2 extra wiring pads in the "Break" transition could then presumably serve to wire in a capacitor to minimize the "pop" when switching between the 2 poles of the switch, from passive to active and vice versa. I think the Ultra model would probably work for what you want; not sure about the regular version. We really need someone to do a color-coded diagram of the regular switch so as to be able to make sense of that one- it's confusing to describe its operation verbally. To really be sure it will do what you require, someone will have to do up a diagram. Do you need help with a diagram to do this? It will be much quicker if you can draw something up yourself that we can then examine. Thanks Newey,
I will try and make some diagram for this and scan the same. Quite obviously I would love to have any/all help I can get with this. The Ultra switch looked so confusing that I abandoned it in favour of the simpler 6 way switch. Besides Stewmac has not provided any wiring diagram instructions / options for the Ultra.
A regular 3 way switch has just 4 terminals. 2 inputs, an output and a ground. A quick switch has 3 but is single pole triple throw (piezo-both-mag). With 26 terminals it got crazy!
I think Navin found his special purpose... Thanks for the welcome guys. Haydukej my son is my special purpose.
I actually logged on because my son plays guitar and needed this help. He is 12 and hence is not eligible to be a member. Ethically I can't let him log on himself even if he seems to know what he is doing (he chose the SD pickups and was quite clear about what he wanted) and it is I who is learning about guitars FROM him.
What do you tell a kid who confidently tells you that the TC electronics processor sounds more 'natural' than the Boss processor - I just let him do what he wants and try to help where I can. :-)
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 1, 2014 5:58:36 GMT -5
Ok I just learnt that the Quickswitch is on-off-on and works by shorting the pickup not needed to ground. So in the center position both pickups are active.
Meanwhile I dug up a scheme used by someone who had a PRS and also got a little crazy with it. www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3464.0
I hope this helps.
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 6, 2014 6:41:25 GMT -5
After a lot of trouble, Alasdair Bryce of Freeway, designed a scheme which he hopes will work.
FWGraphtec.pdf (216.49 KB) acousti-phonic-with-quickswitch.pdf (580.39 KB)
a. The acoustic pickup is connected to the preamp as show in the acoustic-phonic PDF attached. b. The hot tip of the modified FW-Graphtec (Seymour Duncan) PDF is connected to the mag input on Acousti-phonic preamp c. The middle leg piezo volume control is connected to the free way switch and the piezo volume control is also connected to the preamp as shown in the PDF attached (the yellow wire shown) d. the preamp is then connected to the output jack as shown in the acoustic-phonic PDF attached. e. All other connections are as per the FW-Graphtec (Seymour Duncan) and acoustic-phonic PDF attached except for the quick switch which will be discarded.
Someone with drawing skills might be able to combine the 2 PDFs into one scheme.
Hope this helps others.
Navin
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Post by newey on Oct 6, 2014 15:26:49 GMT -5
Glad you got the help you needed, Navin. Please report back how it works once you get it done.
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 7, 2014 0:45:00 GMT -5
Newey,
I cannot stress how much trouble Alasdair Bryce saved me with his help and assistance in building this schematic. It gives any person confidence in buying the product as you believe there is someone there to help if you need it. On the other hand 3 emails to Graphtec / Ghost about their preamp went unanswered (other reports on other forums also report similar experiences) and that leaves me feeling that Graphtec has not really got it's act together on the sales/marketing of their products. Anyway we are not here to debate this.
I don't have the drawing skills to merge the two drawings into one detailing the changes listed in my earlier post if I could I would make such a scheme and post it here for the benefit of the public at large.
I will report back what this does. I had just ordered parts from Stewmac as well as robot tuners from Troncial, The Seymour Duncan pickups arrived a few days back and are stuck in the quagmire that is Indian Customs. This guitar is currently black wit chrome hardware. It's body colour will be changed to gold and binding will be added. This is what I hope the final product will look like (the pickups are SD with gold covers and not EMGs) only we are using gold speed knobs not bell knobs.
Navin
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 8, 2014 2:55:32 GMT -5
Glad you got the help you needed, Navin. Please report back how it works once you get it done. Thanks Newey,
I wonder if this scheme would qualify for a Nutzoid label!
I was just making a spread sheet of the options and we could technically have 48 x 4 (192 variations) though some might not be useful. There are 2 triple shots, 3 push pull pots, and the free way switch. I would initially also wire the mid/dark switch to a 4th push pull pot and undo this once the concentric pot arrives (in favour of giving each magnetic pickup an independent tone control). I listed the first lot of 48 options in the doc file attached options for switching.doc (35 KB)
You can repeat the same 48 with the Neck Volume pot set to Parallel to make 96 options and then repeat all 96 with the Bridge Volume Pot set to Reverse Phase. Like I said some of them might make no sense at all.
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Post by newey on Oct 8, 2014 4:46:55 GMT -5
No, they all make sense, but there will be many that won't sound distinctively different. This touches on an old debate we have around here, as to whether it is better to have a guitar that can "do everything" so to speak, versus one that has fewer options but has just those tones the player desires.
Often, the debate breaks down along the lines of whether one plays live a lot as opposed to recording a lot. For gig use, a few favorite tones may be more useful, and more easily accessed, since the guitar will require fewer switches, etc. Those who record aren't so concerned about switching "on the fly" so to speak, and may better tolerate a multitude of switches.
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navin
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Post by navin on Oct 9, 2014 2:23:02 GMT -5
No, they all make sense, but there will be many that won't sound distinctively different. Often, the debate breaks down along the lines of whether one plays live a lot as opposed to recording a lot. The way I see it even if one is recording with the degree of flexibility one has today with effects and other processors and emulators it makes more sense to focus on the music than all the pizzaz.
Even when one is recording, one is part of a band and I wonder as to what differences one can hear when everything is throw in into one mix.
Which is why I shy away from complex gadgets like the Axe II/ Eleven Rack or even GT100/HD500 range of products and prefer something more on the lines of TC Electronic's Nova System or Carl Martin's awaited 6 Pack (see links). www.tcelectronic.com/nova-system/ guitarnoize.com/musikmesse-2014-carl-martin-release-6pack-analog-multi-effect/
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