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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 5, 2014 17:26:22 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm redoing a project Warmoth guitar, and wanting to spice it up. It already has 2 holes drilled for mini toggle switches, and 2 for pots. Its got 2 humbuckers. What I am looking to do is have 1 master volume, 1 master tone, and then have 1 switch (DPDT On-On)be a coil tap and 1 switch (DPDT On-On-On) be a 3 way selector. I've seen pieces of this configuration, but haven't seen it the way I want it complete. How would I wire that bad boy up?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by newey on Nov 5, 2014 22:40:20 GMT -5
Drummonkey- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2! This is a diagram from Guitar Electronics which is very similar to what you want, and which can serve as a starting point: www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WD2HH3T11_01/Guitar-Wiring-Diagram-2-Humbuckers3-Way-Toggle-Switch1-Volume0Tone001.htmlThe only differences are these: First, the diagram shows the coil cut switch as being on a push/pull pot, wheras you want it on a mini-toggle. This is easily remedied, as the connections to a DPDT On-On switch will be exactly the same as shown for the P/P pot. Second, the diagram shows the pickup selector as being a 3-way Gibson-style toggle, whereas you want to use another mini-toggle, DPDT On-On-On. This will require a bit of translation of the wiring, but it is easily doable: Just redo the Guitar electronics diagram, replacing the Gibby toggle with this module. You should then be good to go. Just to be sure you've got it down, you can redraft the diagram with the changes, and one of the members will vet your work. (Note also that the green arrows in the switch diagram indicate the internal connections when the switch is in the center position- strictly a visual aid)
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 6, 2014 15:06:32 GMT -5
Thats super helpful thanks! In poking around on the GE site, i think i found an elegant solution: each pickup has a 3 way switch.
Humbucker Off Coil tap
I do south on one and north on the other to maintain hum cancelling, and don't need a pickup selector. This also allows me to choose 1 pickup to tap and the other not, which is probably useless but an interesting concept to me.
I'll let you know how it turns out. It'll be a while since I'm in the middle of finishing the body.
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Post by newey on Nov 6, 2014 17:28:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't say useless at all. I'm a big fan of the "HB + SC" sound, and there are many others. There are a number of commercially-sold guitars with a SH combination, usually with the SC at the neck position. Fender recently had a "Pawnshop Strat" model with a Strat SC at the neck and a Tele Custom "3+3" HB at the bridge.
That's not to say that a HB split to a single coil will sound just like a single coil pickup- it won't. But you can get pretty durn close, and it's a good sound in its own right anyway.
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 18, 2014 14:53:47 GMT -5
OK so...I wired up 2 switches, one north coil and one south coil. Both were to be humbucker/off/coil tap, based on these diagrams: South CoilNorth Coilthen plugged them into this diagram to finish it off(without the toggle switch).... 2 humbuckers, 1 vol 1 tone
The bridge pickup works great alone in all positions, but the neck pickup is...odd.. When in humbucker mode it works. It is off when it's off. But in coil tap, it cuts both pickups out, no matter what position bridge pickup is in. What would cause that? Ground issue? Doesn't look like anything is touching. I first was using half of a dpdt center-off switch, and changed it to a spdt center-off switch to see if there was something weird with the switch. Same issue. Any thoughts?
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Post by newey on Nov 18, 2014 22:55:31 GMT -5
DM-
It's hard to diagnose what's going on here between three separate diagrams. I think you need to show us exactly how you "plugged in" the two coil-cut modules to the rest of the diagram. IOW, show how it is currently wired, in toto.
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 19, 2014 12:43:46 GMT -5
Good call newey. Here is the full diagram. From what I can tell, all connections appear solid and it is wired how this diagram says. They are DiMarzio Virtual PAF's if that is helpful.
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 19, 2014 20:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 19, 2014 21:01:29 GMT -5
Could the cables be colored incorrectly, so I'm not getting a full path from south to north? That could be the case, but it wouldn't cause the issue you described. The only way I can see that happening is if the bottom contact on the SPDT is shorting to ground somehow. Are you sure you've got the full HB in the "up" position? Did you test/measure this before you installed it? It might be that it's inadvertently touching something in the cavity.
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Post by newey on Nov 19, 2014 21:12:50 GMT -5
OK, the two schemes are a bit different. Do you really mean that you are still getting this?:
I am taking this to mean that:
1) The Bridge pickup operates normally, in all 3 settings, so long as the neck pickup is set to either "off" or to "HB". The only odd behavior occurs when the neck switch is set to "coil cut".
2) Setting the neck switch to "Coil Cut" results in no output regardless of any other switch settings.
3) The neck pickup operates as expected when set to "HB" and is off when set to "off".
HMM. . .Odd indeed.
First off, please verify what switches you now have in the guitar. Are these now SP or DP? Are they both the same? Are they On-Off-On?
Also, do you have a multimeter?
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 20, 2014 0:02:47 GMT -5
So in further poking and prodding with a multimeter... 1) Yes, the bridge operates normally, as long as the neck pickup is off or HB. 2) Correct. 3) I thought so. However, I later noticed that in HB mode, the output is around 4k, where the bridge is around 8k, and there is a hum. That makes me think that the HB mode is only getting 1 coil. I undid all the pickup connections for the neck, and in testing found: 1. South Start to South Finish: 4.04k 2. North Start to North Finish: 4.02k so both individual coils seem to be working ok. Hooking South Finish and North Finish together: 1. South Start to North Start: 8.13k So far so good... 2. North Start to ground: 4.02k...is that normal? 3. North Start to (Ground and South Start connected): 4.00k, half of what I would expect... So somehow adding the ground halves the resistance... Is that normal? Both switches are now on-off-on DPDT identical switches. All above testing was done without the switch in the circuit. Hope this helps you help me... )
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Post by newey on Nov 20, 2014 7:13:07 GMT -5
AHA! That is why I asked that question . . .
During this testing, were the "series junction" wires wired together (i.e., South finish to North Finish?) Assuming so, then #1 is OK. #2 and #3 are problematic. You should read infinite resistance (or "out-of-range" on some meters) if only one of the north coil's wires is attached to anything.
This suggests that the North finish is somehow grounding to the baseplate (since the bare shield/ground wire attaches to the pickup's baseplate).
But there has to be more going wrong here, since that fault would not explain why you're not getting signal from the bridge pickup when the neck is set to the coil cut setting.
Let's let some others weigh in here. If the neck HB is a part of the problem, as discussed above, you may be able to see the problem if the cover can be removed. If it's wax or epoxy-potted, however, it's virtually impossible.
Alternatively, if you have another HB around that you know is good, you might try swapping out the neck pickup, see if that fixes the issues. But I'm just spitballin' at this point . . .
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 20, 2014 12:21:55 GMT -5
Tested the bridge pickup that came with the set, and it is in the 8k range when grounded. Poop. Going to try wiring up an old duncan performer I have lying around. We'll see what comes of that...
It is heavily wax potted, can see it on the cable coming from the baseplate. Seems like there is a short somewhere in the pickup that, when selected, causes the whole circuit to short. At least that's my uneducated guess.
Booooooo...
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 20, 2014 12:46:00 GMT -5
Preliminary victory! Took the cover off, saw the North Start lead had a bare spot where it touched the shield. Put some electrical tape around it, and the leads test right now...
now to put it back in the guitar and see what happens.............................
Thanks for your input and help! Here's hoping...
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Post by drummonkey4jc on Nov 20, 2014 19:30:19 GMT -5
Fixed! Covering the bare spot fixed the problem. Works like a charm now! Just think...all that frustration and work...the wiring was not the problem at all! Thanks for your help.
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