sonic
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Post by sonic on Dec 20, 2014 16:31:33 GMT -5
Hi all Attached (hopefully) is a quick drawing of a guitar body I've been given, with three humbuckers (one normal, two single coil sized 'blades').  As you can see, there are three tone/volume pot-size holes and four mini switch holes in the body. There are no holes for any 3/5-way switches. I don't know what to do with it, apart from having three volume pots, one for each pickup. Plus coil split or reverse phase mini switches. Has anybody any ideas? What would you do?? Ian [Edit: yes, I meant Pickup!] |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 20, 2014 16:52:55 GMT -5
...one for each switch... You mean for each pickup? I can tell you exactly what I'd do with that. It'd be just like my Xavier Hybrid - 3 x rotaries (off/parallel/split/series for each pickup), 2 x toggles for system S/P options, 1 x toggle for neck phase, and 1 x (on-on-on) toggle (normal/kill/tone kill) It's way fiddly trying to get from one setting to another, but gives way more options than I'd care to count. There's a schematic around here someplace... Edit - errr... I guess the schematic image was on the old blackwatertribe.com server, which no longer exists. I'll have to look it up, but I'm not at home ATM, but here's the discussion thread. |
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Post by newey on Dec 20, 2014 18:33:47 GMT -5
ashcatlt's idea is fine if (as he does), you dislike pots. But you can certainly come up with any number of schemes utilizing individual volume pots.
A "basic" option (minimal nutziness™ involved) would be master Volume and two tones, as on a Strat. Each pickup gets its own on-off DPDT, with the extra pole used to switch between the tone pots for the N and B pups. The 4th switch puts the neck pickup OOP with the other two.
A "moderately Nutzy™" option would be that the N and bridge pickups each get a DPDT On-On-On switch, so as to give on-off-OOP. The middle pickup gets a DPDT On-On-On switch that puts the middle pickup either "off", or on in series or in parallel with the other two. The 4th switch splits the neck HB to single coil operation. And, with the 3 pots, 3 individual volumes.
This scheme would allow for all possible OOP sounds, a limited palette of series/parallel options, and allow for all possible combinations of the 3 pickups, and also allows for splitting the bridge (splitting the tiny coils of the rails pickups is not likley to be real useful, so if you have to pick one HB to split, it should be the full-sized one).
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Post by JohnH on Dec 21, 2014 2:45:58 GMT -5
Happy Christmas and here is my offering. all good ideas above, but just personally, I find rotary switches and three-position toggles to fiddly for me, so:
Master volume Master no-load tone pot A two position dpdt toggle for each pickup, to switch it on or off (pickups in parallel with each other) A phase switch for the neck pickup The third pot fades any pickup or pickups which are switched on, from humbucker down to single coil.
The last notion above involves the second side of each dpdt toggle. These connect the centre coil-to-coil connection of any 'on' pickups to the third pot, which gradually shunts the all such centre connections to ground. Hence, it transitions from full humbuckers(s) down to single coil(s)
This joining of all active centre taps to each other at this blend/series-fader pot may make a tiny difference to the tone when more than one is on and they are nor in single-coil mode, but my hunch is that this will not be detrimental, nor very significant. If only one pickup is selected, this control will act as a conventional spin-a-split knob.
By picking the order of coils, it should be possible to get some combos hum-cancelling in split mode, and similar in oop mode.. .
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Post by Yogi B on Dec 21, 2014 3:25:33 GMT -5
I have to say that I quite admire John's idea above albeit I'd more likely have the phase switch on the middle pickup. However I myself not minding the fiddly things, here's what I'd likely do: master volume, master tone (standard with no-load or possibly Phostenix's modified TBX control); then with the pickups wired in parallel globally, they would get individual DPDT on/off/on switches for local series / off / local parallel; followed with the last pot / switch holes (the lowest on your layout image) I'd have a 3 position (and 4 pole) rotary for choosing which pickup goes out of phase and a 4PDT switch to activate said rotary switch. |
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sonic
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Post by sonic on Dec 21, 2014 10:18:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions all. So most would go for the rotary option, whereas some would go for simple on-off switches on the minis. Hmm ... I suppose the other option then would be a version of the Red Special, with three mini on-on-on toggles, master volume and tone, with something else for the two spare holes? Maybe a 'spin-a-split' for the pot hole and a reverse phase for the mini? Or vice versa? See why I asked for opinions now? I'm confused ...  |
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Post by Yogi B on Dec 21, 2014 14:37:49 GMT -5
most would go for the rotary option I'm not sure how you get most from 2 out of 4. Also on that note, heed well of how my post count pales in the shadow of the others', and I feel the need to explicitly tell you to take these guys' advise over mine as they have demonstrably proven that they really know what they're doing, whereas I'm more of a bumbling although benevolent bonehead that just happens to be passing by.  Now, after I've finished self-deprecating, my suggestion was somewhat based on a scheme of mine (roughly drawn out, but as yet not neatly reproduced / completely finished, and unverified) also based upon the Red Special kind of idea and improvements/alterations on that theme from threads around here, although it definitely has some of my own nutz-y-ness in there too. (And hopefully I'll see about posting it soon, maybe)That layout needs 4PDTs for the individual series/off/parallel as it also globally switches between series and parallel (with a fourth 4PDT) -- the perceived lack of space for which would be my reasoning for why I didn't post that idea as is. |
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sonic
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Post by sonic on Dec 22, 2014 10:24:46 GMT -5
Hi all. I've been thinking about this and have come up with a possible plan. Rotary switches are all well and good, but the number of options can get me confused (I confuse easily!) I've gone for the complicated before, and, although the options are great, after a short period I lose track of what switch gives which sound and then I have to go back and look at the blueprints again. Not ideal! (See www.ianhughesma.com/2012/04/23/another-guitar/ for the guitar) Instead, I'm thinking of following the Red Special. This means having three of the mini switches as on/off switches, but possibly with the wiring set to series rather than the more usual parallel - as per the RS. How this would work for humbuckers rather than single coils I'm unsure. It would have a master volume and two tone controls, one for the neck plus middle and the other for the bridge. All three would be push-pulls for reverse phase for their respective pickups. With the last mini switch, maybe split the neck and middle pups? Again, I don't know how this will affect the tone, especially with the pups in Series. It may be that, as Newey says, it is better just to split the bridge pickup. Hmm. Still confused! |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 22, 2014 11:50:28 GMT -5
Not to sound defensive, but my switching arrangement is actually pretty intuitive once you have it in your hands. The tough part is that trying to go from one pickup to another requires turning two knobs rather than flipping a switch. You'll have some of that with individual toggles, but I guess it's possible to flip both toggles at one time with one hand.
But the idea you've proposed is interesting as well. It's likely to be pretty dark (and loud) with four coils in series, and will start to be almost muddy (and LOUD) with all six. Would definitely suggest you find some way to mock it up and actually try it before you button it up. For me, I figure the only good reason to go for that much output voltage is to slam something down the road further into distortion. More distortion means more of the higher harmonics that can sound harsh and fizzy, so rolling off the highs going in works to take that a bit. But even two series HBs is a special sound that I tend to use sparingly.
Individual T pots will help here. Wire them across the individual pickups and they will have some "Broadbucker" action - letting more of the highs from the other pickups through while attenuating the highs from the one. But in a series arrangement you can't really share the one pot between N and M. You could use a dual-gang pot, but it would be much better to have separate controls. I personally only ever use a V pot as an on/off switch - it's either at 0 or 10 - and you kind of get that with the toggles, so I'd probably do 3 seperate Ts, but you could also put a concentric pot in one of the holes to have 3 x T and the MV.
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Post by newey on Dec 22, 2014 12:53:00 GMT -5
Unless you're splitting the HBs, they can be treated just like they were SCs- you have two wires out of each, assuming we ignore the "series junction" wires used to split the coils. But, as ashcatlt notes, this can get pretty dark with all those coils in series; the Red Special only had 3 SCs, after all. Also, no need for 3 phase switches, when 2 will get you all the possible OOP options. (I know the RS has 3 phase switches, but one is redundant, unless we consider ease of switching issues). Both JohnH and I have drawn up variations on the RS scheme to give some parallel options in addition to the original series scheme. John's ideas are in this link, which also links to other posts on the topic: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4855/brian-series-parallel-switching-sss |
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sonic
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Post by sonic on Dec 22, 2014 14:10:58 GMT -5
But the idea you've proposed is interesting as well. It's likely to be pretty dark (and loud) with four coils in series, and will start to be almost muddy (and LOUD) with all six .... Individual T pots will help here. Wire them across the individual pickups and they will have some "Broadbucker" action - letting more of the highs from the other pickups through while attenuating the highs from the one. But in a series arrangement you can't really share the one pot between N and M. You could use a dual-gang pot, but it would be much better to have separate controls. I personally only ever use a V pot as an on/off switch - it's either at 0 or 10 - and you kind of get that with the toggles, so I'd probably do 3 separate Ts, but you could also put a concentric pot in one of the holes to have 3 x T and the MV. A concentric pot never entered my head. Also, your idea that to 'calm the beast' needs three T pots is sensible. Probably why I didn't think of it! You're right: the third isn't needed. That would leave me with one concentric pot for a V and T, plus two push-pulls for T and OOP. Three switches for on-off, means that I can put the 4pdt in the last position for series/parallel. So I just need to source a 4pdt! I think this could be the one for me! Thank you all for the input. You've saved me a lot from a lot of confusion and head-scratching over the next few weeks. Happy Christmas!!  |
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