HH new Fender "Super Switch" 1 vol 1 tone

[lookbunnyrabbit]

I was starting to wire a project build but then I realized that the Switch I bought Isnt what I thought it was.

I built a Jaguar Bodied guitar with 2 Humbuckers and tele controls. The switch that was purchased is a single wafer 10 lug "Super Switch" from Fender. Its great for my limited space, but I am not sure it will work.
Can someone give me some idea how to wire that switch so that I can use it to make the following combinations.
Pos 1: Bridge HB
Pos 2: Bridge HB Parallel
Pos 3: Bridge slug + Neck Slug
Pos 4: Neck Screw
Pos 5: Neck HB

Is this even possible? I like the Jazzmaster but I have issue with the PUPs. I wanted switch positions that would cover a wide range of sounds. Im not sure if Pos 2 is a good idea or not vol wise?

Im really in over my head. I could really use some help with this mess I got into.

[lookbunnyrabbit]

I partly figured out what lugs on the 5-way Superswitch are. The two bottom outside ones are com. After the coms on a normal 5-way you have 3 selections. bridge,mid,neck. This switch has 4 on both sides of the switch with a com at the bottom of either side. I have no idea what can or can not be done with this super switch.
I can figure out how to build my tone and vol circuit, just not sure on the rest of it.

[newey]

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

This switch has 4 on both sides of the switch with a com at the bottom of either side.

Does the switch click through 4 positions or 5? This sounds suspiciously like the "Baja" Tele switch. A real superswitch has 4 poles (i.e., 4 sets of lugs) with 6 on each pole- a common lug, plus lugs 1-5. The Superswitch is thus a 4 pole, 5 throw switch (4P5T). There is also a "half-superswitch", which is a two pole, 5 throw (2P5T).

But, if yours has only 4 lugs plus a common, and 2 poles (2P4T), that sounds like the 4-position Baja Tele switch. This is ordinarily used to select N/N+B/N*B/B.

[lookbunnyrabbit]

Here is the only thing I found on the switch at SD
www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/guitar-wiring-explored-introducing-the-super-switch-part-1/

[lookbunnyrabbit]

So even if I wanted to do this:
pos1 bridge single
pos2 bridge HB
pos3 both HB
pos4 neck HB
pos5 neck single
Am I still in need of another switch? If so, which should I purchase?

The reason I ask is I have never heard this guitar or pickups before. I just made it.
At this point Im trying to wire it to narrow in on the sound I am looking for. I want a guitar geared towards Jazz & Rock. I normally play single coil guitars, so I have no idea where to start to achieve my ends. What I know for certain is that I want versatility and more or less even volume throughout the 5-way

[sumgai]

lbr,


The switch you bought (if it's the exact same as the one you linked to from Duncan's site) will do the job you outlined in your most recent post, just above. However, depending on how you like your tone control(s) arranged, you won't be able to imitate Fender's method of using one switch pole (one half of one deck of terminals) for that control. Instead, the tone pot(s) will have to be hooked up permanently to it's/their destination(s). Not a big deal, to be sure, most of us do that anyway.

BTW, you have what we call a "half SuperSwitch". A fully realized SuperSwitch has two such decks, for a total of 24 terminals.

Please note the following: in discussing technical terms, guitarists all over the globe learn different words to describe things. In turn, this means that a translation has to take place when speaking to players/users/owners/wannabes from different locations. Not a problem, but we here in The NutzHouse try to be consistant, both for ourselves and for the occasional reader. What I'm saying here is, if a term is not clear to you, please ask for more details, and one (or more) of us will give you some exact examples of how we speak about any particular part/circuit/whathaveyou.

Always remember this: there are no stupid questions, only ones that haven't yet been asked. (Or more likely in this joint, ones that were asked 10 years ago, answered, then buried by time.) No matter what you want to know, no one here is gonna give you a rough time over it. We were all rookies at one time, even me.

On that note,

to the NutzHouse!


HTH






sumgai

[lookbunnyrabbit]

I hate to ask this, but between having never worked with 4 wire humbuckers and that half super switch. I cant figure out how to connect the pickups at the 5-way. Could you give me an idea of how this is done?

[sumgai]

'rabbit,


I'm a bit busy at the moment (I'm a vendor at a show this weekend), so I'll have to beg off, and let someone else chime in with some leads as to what to do, and when to do it.

But in the meantime, you can certainly peruse our sub-Forum titled General Guitar Schematics. This is where "finished" designs go, after they've been built by one of our Nutz. If you have the time, you can also look at other Forums and sub-Forums for ideas - your scheme is pretty common, and we've done this several times.

HTH




sumgai

[lookbunnyrabbit]

I gave it more thought and decided that I wanted all hum canceling.
I hope this is correct. I tried to use logic as best as I could. Due to work, I havent been to bed in 2.5 days. I did want to at least submit this mess to you guys and see if someone could go over it to check my work.

 

[newey]

Bunny-

Better get some sleep. Your diagram has problems at positions 2 and 4.

You show the "series junction" between the coils of each HB as gray for the neck and as purple for the bridge pickup. These wires join together, and are then connected to positions 2 and 4 on each pole of the switch.

One coil of each HB is permanently grounded. At positions 2 and 4, the other end of that coil is connected to the output, via either the grey or the purple wire. So you will hear that coil at both positions 2 and 4.

The other coil is permanently connected at one end to lugs 1 and 3 (for the bridge) or 3 and 5 (neck pickup). That end of the coil isn't connected to anything in positions 2 and 4 on the switch. The other end of that coil is connected to the output at positions 2 and 4, but with the other end disconnected, you will never hear that coil in either position 2 or 4.

I doubt that you can have the options you want here with only the half-superswitch. I think you're going to need the full 4-pole superswitch. To be able to have either coil of the HBs, we have to be able to switch the ground of one coil from each HB. With both common lugs wired together to the output, we'd need another pole to switch the grounds.

Also note that, if your HBs are from the same manufacturer, then you would need to be selecting one screw coil with the opposite slug coil to get hum-cancelling. Both screw coils won't be hum-cancelling, and neither will both slugs together. If you must have inner coils and outer coils paired up, you can rotate one pickup 180­, so that selecting the outer coils or inner coils pairs a slug coil with a screw coil.

[sumgai]

'rabbit,


Well, there's a minor problem with your latest drawing, and a major one. The minor problem is simply one of placing the tone control after the volume pot, what we call a "1950s wiring scheme", made popular back then by Gibson as they wired Les Paul guitars. If this is what you want, then there's no problem at all, but be aware that the volume control affects the tone control's action much more strongly. Consult with JohnH about this, should you have any further questions.


Next, your coil selection scheme has a serious drawback - you'll never be able to select only the inner coils in Position 2. Instead, this will be nothing more than a duplicate of Position 4, the outer coils being selected. Look more closely at your drawing, and you'll see that there's nothing different between the two positions. The point is, you would have to send the common wire (between the two coils, for each pickup (the grey and purple wires, respectively)) to ground instead of to the output (the volume control and so forth). This can't be done as you show it.

Sadly, I have to tell you that you'll need the full-blooded version of the SuperSwitch, not the half version. Using the two extra poles, you can then control the ground connections for the two wires in question. Sending them to either the output or to ground, you can then select inner or outer coils as desired. Yes, there are other schemes that are truly Nutz-y, but they have their own drawbacks, none of them that I can envision will do the entire job correctly. But perhaps someone else here will prove me wrong.  

Good luck, and HTH!




EDIT: ninja'd by newey!



sumgai

[lookbunnyrabbit]

Wow, I really did need some sleep. I just got a few hours. It looks like I am all over the place with my diagram. I just ordered a proper Superswitch. It should be here in a few days. I think I sort of understand the purpose of the second wafer. Even with the sleep I think I am in over my head.  Thanks again Newey and Sumgai.

Newey, I get what you mean about the need for one slug, one screw to make up a humbucker. I dont know why that didnt click in my head when I was thinking that out.

Sumgai, Ill redo the vol/tone circuit. I see exactly what you are talking about and how that would over affect the Vol via the tone.

Well I think I know how to redo the Volume and Tone part of the circuit on my own. I could use some help with the 24 contact switch and the two HBs. However, I would like to take a crack at it on my own first.  Im pretty Sure ill F it up. However I really want to understand what Im doing and why.

I feel like I am getting a first class education. Thanks again guys!

[sumgai]

bunny,


The clue for you is this: you have 4-wire pickups, yet you drew the diagram as if they were three-wire pups. You'll want to separate the two wires comprising that junction, and send one to ground while sending the other to the output, as needed per switch position.

Second clue: the 3rd and 4th poles of your new switch will not necessarily be going to ground on the common terminals. IOW, think outside of the box!


And as for screwing things up... better to do it on paper than in the guitar's cavity with a hot soldering iron, doncha think?


HTH





sumgai

[lookbunnyrabbit]

I've been reading for the last 4-5 hours. I think I am sneaking up on a simplified expression of the wiring.
Im most likely still wrong. If that is the case, I would like to buy a vowel.



BTW, I am sure its common knowledge around here, but I found out that Oak Grigsby makes a Special narrow Superswitch just for Telecaster applications. Perfect for my tele slot. Just in case I ordered an All Parts gold tele control plate with the standard 5-way slot instead of my homemade one with angled 5-way slot.

[sumgai]

'looker,


Well, it would seem that sleep is good for you!

You can safely start hooking it all up, this will work. However...

I do have a quibble with your labeling. The 'truth table' in your most recent drawing shows the word "series" after positions 2, 3 & 4 - don't do that. That's not what's happening, so it's quite possible that you're gonna confuse any unsuspecting readers.

The "Plus sign" (+) designates a parallel connection, whereas an asterisk (*) denotes a series connection. Now, we all know that humbuckers commonly come wired as a series junction between the two coils, right? Common convention says that if we don't mess with that junction for our Nutz-y wiring, then just don't say anything about it at all - it's assumed to be factory stock, and we leave it at that. If you drop the word "series" from all three positions, the diagram will be much less confusing to the casual reader.

The remaining issue is this: your finger slipped when you typed out "Bridge HN" for position 3. If I'm not mistaken, that should be "Bridge HB", to show a full humbucker connection.


My final answer, without any lifelines, is this: Good job! I think we're gonna make a Mod God out of you yet!


HTH


EDIT: Almost forgot - you probably should change the "1/2 superswitch" in the diagram's title to just "superswitch".





sumgai

[lookbunnyrabbit]

Thanks again. I cleaned up the drawing. Sleep is an amazing thing.
Strange how logical we think we are being when we havent slept.

 

[sumgai]

I like it!

[lookbunnyrabbit]

Could I and should I use this as my tone cap. Its audio grade but I am not sure if anyone has tried this or if its even worth it.
Just a thought as I had a few in a junk box. It appears to be silver wire wound.



FWIW Sumgai, Thanks again. Your hint to think outside of the box was what made me look at the switch backward.

[lookbunnyrabbit]

BTW, while its not a great angle, you can see how compact the Oak Grigsby "narrow" superswitch is. The footprint is the same as a stock Oak 5-way

[sumgai]

Apr 29, 2015 21:56:03 GMT -5 lookbunnyrabbit said:

Could I and should I use this as my tone cap. Its audio grade but I am not sure if anyone has tried this or if its even worth it.

In my opinion, one can spend his/her whole life seeking that magic tone (aka "Mojo"), or one can get on with life and just play, fer cryin' out loud. Capacitors fall into that former category, being marketed with hype like there's no tomorrow. But the bottom line is this: whatever makes your ears happy. If you like/are satisfied with the sound of some particular cap, then by all means, use it!*

As it happens, before answering this question, I did some research around the web. My Gawd, there are a helluva a lot of people with money to blow needlessly!! But I found, buried in all that dross, some fairly intriguing technical analyses. Still and all, when the rubber hits the road, they all boiled down to one thing - parts aren't all the same!!!! To summarize, they all said, without saying so in exact words, that no matter how a part was made, nor when it was made, no matter what guitar company used which parts, they are all different in some way, large or small. Bottom line, take it or leave it.**

As for me, I buy quality parts for reliability, because I know that no one, not even me, can tell the difference between a $0.50 capacitor and a $56.00 cap. (<-- That's a link.)

HTH





sumgai

* But I also caution, gently, that one should be aware of "expectation bias". That's where you spend an hour putting in a big-bucks component, and by Gawd, it sounds 1,000 percent better than the original part. After all, it costs so much, so it must be better, right?

** Interestingly enough, I found the most "ego-less" discussions on the TalkBass forums.