tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jun 24, 2015 6:48:43 GMT -5
Hi guys
just arrived back off holiday....... I did take my laptop but I seems there are still some parts of England without internet access.
thanks for the help, i'll get back on this project as soon as I get chance
Gav
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 7, 2015 11:04:29 GMT -5
hi guys so, i'm ready to go on this, most of the parts are back and are hopefully the correct ones (fingers crossed) i've changed the colouring on the wiring diagram as suggested, and added what i think are the wiring to ground each switch and pots to its own body... is this correct?? Q's: - does this diagram look complete to you guys?
- does it matter what part of the pot i solder the ground to? where is a good place?
- does the diagram of the pot in the schematic match up with the profile of the pot in the picture?
Thank you
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Post by JohnH on Jul 7, 2015 16:15:51 GMT -5
That diagram looks ok to me.
The pp pot looks fine. Our diagrams often show the switch to the side instead of the pot back, just for clarity. But the lugs will match and those nearest the pot case correspond between diagram and real pot.
On a pp pot, there is usually a projecting metal tab at the top of the switch. That is the best place to connect grounds and its an easier solder joint to make than to the back of a normal pot.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 22, 2015 10:36:41 GMT -5
well, i finally got around to do it, and after a night of soldering, i plugged the guitar in and............ nothing.
i've got no sound at all out of any switch setting.
i'm not 100% happy with all the soldering joints, the new pots have really small soldering pegs and getting 2 wires on there is very difficult.
i've re-soldered some of the joints and checked my wiring to the schematic and tried again but still nothing.
has anyone got any tips to troubleshoot?
i have got a multi-meter reader but will need help using it
Thanks
Gav
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bluemurder
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Post by bluemurder on Jul 22, 2015 12:05:09 GMT -5
You will need to do it slowly and systematically with your multimeter.
I would first plug in a guitar cord into the output jack and put the probes of the meter to tip and sleeve. With all controls set on full, set the pickup selector switch to bridge pickup only, set the multimeter to DC ohms in the range of up to 20k and take a reading. You should get approximately the reading of the pickup itself (I say approximately because the volume pot is in parallel with that). If you get zero, there is a short somewhere. If you get no reading the connection is open.
Do the same with the neck pickup and with both pickups combined. For both pickups combined you should get a lower reading.
If you don't get correct readings open up the control cavity (respectively take the pickguard off) and measure directly across the pickups to make sure they are working (you can do this between the connection of the pickup at the switch (or at the volume control - wherever the hot wire goes) and ground. Still no correct reading? Desolder the pickup from the circuit and measure again. Still no correct reading - the pickup is broken. If you get the correct reading the fault must be in the wiring.
If the first reading with the cable showed no value (i.e. open connection), do the following: again with the pot set up full, measure between the volume input to the tip of the guitar cord. You should get a zero reading for continuity. If you get nothing, measure from the volume output. Still nothing - measure from the switch input and so on until you find the broken connection.
If the first reading with the cable showed zero (i.e. a short) the process is similar. In that case it is also important to closely view the connections and the wires and make sure that no hot wire touches a ground connection.
This all sounds like tedious work, and sometimes it is but the good thing in electronics is - if something does not work as intended there is always a good reason - it's just a matter of finding it.
Good luck, Stephan
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bluemurder
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Post by bluemurder on Jul 22, 2015 12:10:47 GMT -5
As far as the pots, I've never heard of the brand "Goldo". These are presumably of Asian manufacture, quality unknown. (That's not a knock, the quality of most of the parts from there is good; just no experience with those particular ones. Göldo is a German based distributor of guitar parts. They have US series pots with a larger shaft diameter and Japan series pots. Göldo does not sell to consumers but you can get the parts on the bay from various online-shops. Cheers Stephan
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 22, 2015 13:23:00 GMT -5
ok....thanks stephan..
this sounds a little complicated, but will try to get my head around it
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 22, 2015 14:20:37 GMT -5
i'm getting a zero (i think) in the initial test.... so does this mean there is a bad solder joint which is to blame for having zero sound?
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bluemurder
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Post by bluemurder on Jul 23, 2015 2:59:16 GMT -5
Yup - looks like there is a short somewhere - unless you have set the volume control to zero (I made that mistake one time). I would check the pickups nevertheless but it's unlikely that two pickups go defect at the same time. You will have to desolder the hot pickup connections for this test.
Good luck, Stephan
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Post by newey on Jul 23, 2015 5:45:57 GMT -5
Stephan-
Welcome back, and thanks for jumping in to help on this.
Tweedy-
Stephan has you on the right track, it's best to do these things systematically. One suggestion, however, before you start disconnecting things, is to check the output jack first, as a total lack of output is most likely due to a fault there. First, remove the jack from the guitar, leaving it wired, and test it with a cable/amp. Sometimes the act of screwing the jack into the guitar will short things there. This happens more often with Strats given the way the "canoe"-style jack plate mounts, but check it anyway.
If you still have no sound, then as Bluemurder says, check for continuity from the pot to the jack tip, and also between the ground point and the jack sleeve. You should show continuity (i.e., 0 ohms resistance, or very close to it) for both those checks Then, check for continuity between the pot "hot" connection and the grounding point- there should be none, meaning you get an infinity reading (on some meters, this shows up as "out of range")- it will be the same reading as you get with the meter on (and set to measure resistance)when the probes are not touching each other.
If this test shows continuity between hot and ground (with no cable plugged in), then you have a short between the pot and the jack. If these tests come out OK, then as Stephan suggests, best to go start at the beginning with the pickups and work down through the wiring.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 24, 2015 5:35:29 GMT -5
OK Guys..... thanks for the help.
I wont have much time to get back on this until sunday unfortunately...... but I'm sure I'll have some questions then
Cheers again both.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 24, 2015 5:43:51 GMT -5
as an after thought....... do you guys know of any tutorial videos relevant to what I need to be doing with the tester?
thanks
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Post by newey on Jul 24, 2015 6:14:24 GMT -5
No videos that I know of. Here's the link to the basic testing procedure: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3186/discerning-strat-type-resistancesA couple of points: First, please understand that it is very difficult for others to troubleshoot your guitar via the internet. There are many issues that, if one of us had the guitar in our hands, we could probably spot instantly, but to try to get to that understanding via the web might require many posts and much back-and-forth. Second, the testing that you did at the output jack- you should do that test with the V and T pots rolled up to "10", and then check for a reading in the same fashion as you roll the pots down (in case you wired the pot(s)reversed, which is easy to do). If you still have no output shown after that, then check the output jack as suggested. If nothing comes of any of that, then as bluemurder said, start at the beginning with the pickups. You will be working your way through the circuit, checking each component and each wire/solder joint. Check the connection from point A to point B, if that's good, check from B to C, etc. If something is grounded, then it should show continuity to the sleeve of the output jack. If something is supposed to be connected to the "hot" (signal output), then it should show continuity to the jack tip connection. As noted, you apparently have a short, meaning that something grounded is touching a "hot" connection, or vice versa. If something that is supposed to be grounded shows continuity to the jack tip as well as the sleeve, there's your short. Problems like this are why we always advise testing each component before installation- pickups, pots, switches- and making notes of all the actual resistance values for the pots and pickups, as those notes help with any later troubleshooting.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 29, 2015 4:55:21 GMT -5
OK..... with all the potching I managed to snap the capacitor . I ordered more , they have finally been delivered and im able to do get back on the solderer tonight. one thing I'm confused about though is I'm not sure what is supposed to be hot or grounded.... i think green is grounded and black is hot coming out of the SD's but after they get to to the volume/tone, that is where my trail ends. can someone shed some light on that for me please? another thing, I'm not really trusting my ability with this multi-meter..... and this is probably a really stupid question, but would it be easier to use the continuity setting and listen for the bleep, as apposed for looking for a 00 reading on the homme setting? I'm getting a 00 reading most of the time whether its connected to anything or not........ I don't think i need to highlight the fact that i am a complete novice at electronics after that comment, do i? thanks again guys, i do appreciate your patience.
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Post by newey on Jul 29, 2015 5:50:50 GMT -5
You really don't need to worry about this so much, so long as the connections are good. The diagram has several points that need to be "grounded", that is, they need to ultimately be connected to the sleeve of the output jack. You can trace connections back from the jack to see the pot wiring better, I suppose.
Using the continuity tester is not the preferred way to check things, particularly when one is checking connections that go through a potentiometer. The continuity tester works by putting a small current (from the battery) through the connections being tested. Small as it is, it is still more current than generated by your guitar pickups. A bad connection may show up as having a small resistance that the continuity tester won't "see".
For the multimeter, make sure it is set to read resistance in the 20K range (if it's an auto-ranging type, then you don't need to worry about that). When you touch the two probes together, you should read 0Ω. With the two probes separated, it should read infinite resistance or "out of range". If your meter doesn't do those things, then it's not functioning properly.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 29, 2015 11:17:56 GMT -5
ok..... well that is my first mistake...... i had the the ground going to tip...... i now have all my grounds going to the tone pot case, this connected to the ring of output. and a wire going from tone case to my ground peg. the two pickups are going straight to ground peg.... is this wrong?
i am now getting a reading from plugged in guitar cable in all settings but still no sound.
progress, but still not quite.
thanks again
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Post by newey on Jul 29, 2015 21:42:43 GMT -5
This sounds OK, but it's hard to visualize from a verbal description. Your statement that:
is troublesome. How many lugs are there on your output jack? 2 or 3?
We may just have a terminology problem. The 2 connections on a mono jack are designated as "tip" (where the "hot" output goes) and "sleeve" (the ground connection, sometimes referred to as the "barrel").
A 3-conductor "stereo" style jack has a third connection, known as the "ring", which lies between the tip and sleeve. So, your statement about the "ring of output" was confusing. If you in fact have three lugs and a true "ring" connection, then that could be the problem, the ground should be wired to the sleeve. (if a mono cable is plugged into a 3-conductor jack, it should still work regardless of where the ground is connected, but those ring connections sometimes don't make contact unless you bend them in a bit)
But, I'm sort of assuming that you used the term to refer to a regular TS jack. In which case the testing needs to continue . . .
If you are now getting readings, do the "brain scan" procedure discussed in the link I gave you, and report your results for all switch positions and all pickup combinations. Do this with all the knobs at "10". Then repeat it with the knobs set at about "5" and at about "2", and report your results.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Jul 30, 2015 11:37:56 GMT -5
OK...... i have been able to do a little check before i go back out to work...
the readings are 00 at 0 volume, it climbs to 18.13 when i increase the volume ever so slightly, before cutting off completely as i climb higher with the volume control..... my multi meter then reads 1 . (which is the same reading it gives when it is not connected to anything).
this is the case in all settings.
i put the volume to the position where it gives its maximum reading, plugged the cable from guitar into the amp, and tapped the pick ups with a metal screwdriver and it does make the tapping sound you would expect through the amp..... i have not been able to get this sound before.
thanks you for help (as usual).
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Post by newey on Jul 30, 2015 19:41:22 GMT -5
This sounds suspiciously like a bad pot.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Aug 2, 2015 10:11:23 GMT -5
well i've just swapped around the pots to see what would happen and attaching the multi meter to the output cable yields exactly the same results/problem of reading an output briefly before cutting out...
this doesn't sit right with me. does it make sense to you?
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Post by newey on Aug 2, 2015 19:53:21 GMT -5
Nope, not at all. First off, let's check your meter to be sure it's functioning correctly. This means finding a know-value component (or two) and checking resistance.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Aug 4, 2015 5:38:21 GMT -5
ok..... all I could think to do was to check my other guitars.
I plugged a cable into the output of guitar and clipped the red lead onto the tip of the guitar cable (other end of cable that would usually go to amp) and the black clip onto the shaft of the cable (below the black ring).
the meter is dialled to 20k ohm.
my jag with super distortion in bridge = 7.32. and the PAF in neck (I think) = 3.85
rolling the volume down and observing the meter does show readings my tiny mind wouldn't expect. the meter actually goes up then down before going out of range, although it is consistent, and the volume does cut out extremely quickly when a guitar is plugged into it. sort of suggesting it does not work correctly (like other aspects of it)
I also checked a squire bass which has two volume controls for each pickup (no switch), it measures:
both on full = 3.63 just neck = 6.65 just bride = 6.85
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bluemurder
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Post by bluemurder on Aug 4, 2015 5:54:59 GMT -5
These readings look like they are half of the true values (Super Distortion = approx. 14kohms, PAF approx. 7.5 to 8kohms) but you can work with that. And the readings when turning down the volume are also as expected.
Good luck Stephan
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Aug 7, 2015 3:23:47 GMT -5
that doesn't sound good either, but i'm not touching that guitar yet.
I've ordered replacement parts, so my plan is to try those pots out first.
if that doesn't work I really don't know what to do.
I suppose i could revert to the old pots and see if the old wiring system still works.
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tweedgv
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Post by tweedgv on Aug 17, 2015 5:44:56 GMT -5
ok, finally got some time today to hook up the new pots and the problem remains the same.
obviously doing something wrong but i cannot for the life of me see what it is...
so frustrating
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